Solved Columbine High School Massacre

[PVF]

The Columbine High School massacre (often known simply as Columbine) was a school shooting which occurred on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High School in Columbine, an unincorporated area of Jefferson County within the American State of Colorado. In the school shooting, two senior students named Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold murdered a total of 12 students and one teacher. They also injured 21 further students, with three other people being injured while attempting to escape the school. The pair then committed suicide.

The Columbine High School massacre is the fourth-deadliest mass murder committed upon a school campus in United States history; after the 1927 Bath School disaster, the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre and the 1966 University of Texas massacre, and remains the deadliest for an American high school.

The massacre sparked debate over gun control laws, the availability of firearms within the United States and gun violence involving youths. Much discussion also centered on the nature of high school cliques, subcultures and bullying, in addition to the influence of violent movies and video games in American society. The shooting resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, social outcasts, gun culture, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, teenage Internet use and violent video games.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

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I remember seeing this on the news when I was 8 years old when I was living in Sydney and it scared the s**t out of me. I didn't know the complete story at the time but I knew there was shootings at the high school and it freaked me out that this could happen at a school when it's one of the places that you are suppose to feel protected.

This image was the one that stuck out for me when I first saw it:

 

[Mr Shankly]

Essential reading: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...the_depressive_and_the_psychopath.single.html

 

[Silent Alarm]

Essential reading: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...the_depressive_and_the_psychopath.single.html

I don't know about this article. The author mentions that the school was a poetic metaphor, a symbol of the first world's many norms and institutions. But were they that smart? They spent a year planning a killing, and they would've considered the whole thing a failure. Even after months of dedicated planning, they couldn't get the plan right. I mean... I wouldn't credit them with constructing metaphorical carnage.

I can't find it. But there's a really interesting Rolling Stone interview where it takes a more school yard approach. Basically, it details a day in the life (sourced from kids who knew them) before the killings.

But Columbine really (morbidly) interested me. There was something so upsetting and methodical about the ordeal, and even VT didn't hit me the same way. I don't even remember Columbine as I was a kid, but it... it did get to me.

 

[Ghostwriter]

From the 'bowling for columbine' movie the US bombed Yugoslavia the same day with missiles made at Littleton.

 

[Mr Shankly]

I'm not clear on what your criticism of the article is. I don't know if the killers gave any consideration to metaphorical carnage or striking at the heart of America or any of that. Probably not. But they were aiming for, in Klebold's words, "the most deaths in U.S. history". Fortunately they failed with the timing mechanisms on the bombs.

To me, the article addresses the accepted narrative/myth of Columbine - that it was an act of revenge by bullied outcasts - and explains that the FBI and its team of psychiatrists and psychologists have come to a completely different conclusion, one that I think makes more sense. Does the Rolling Stone article offer a different point of view? I'd be interested in reading it, if you do find it. As for this Slate article, the author expanded it into a book published in 2010: http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dav...UTF8&qid=1355205655&sr=1-1&keywords=columbine. I haven't read it but I'd like to, as I expect it will flesh out the argument in this article and provide sources and supporting evidence.

 

[ep2018]

Columbine was supposed to be an act of terrorism - remember their original plan was to bomb the cafeteria and shoot the survivors as they ran out. Supposedly had the bombs gone off the library upstairs would have collapsed and killed almost everyone in the building.

It became a typical school shooting when they failed to detonate (because they were awful at making bombs).

PS: Don't read Cullen's book. Its full of contradictory statements and is ravaged by people who were actually there.

 

[Belnakor]

I think the most interesting thing about the massacre was two people being involved which is incredibly rare for a spree killing. The chances of two people willing to do something like that in the same school really makes you wonder.

 

[WHOME]

 

[bradrowe#32]

Remember this very clearly. I don't have a strong knowledge of school shootings, but this seemed to kick off a raft of other shootings.

 

[ep2018]

In one of the killers' diaries, after the attack they had planned to shoot up a shopping centre and then 'fly a plane into the WTC'

Yes, they planned 9/11 before 9/11!

 

[MaddAdam]

A lot about Columbine and those kids is not fully undferstood or in the public domain.

 

[ep2018]

A lot about Columbine and those kids is not fully undferstood or in the public domain.

Back when I was completely obsessed with the tragedy around 2005/2006 I had a mate who was a member of an invite-only Columbine discussion forum. I was sent an invite and was allowed inside. The stuff that had been collected there was unbelievable. Scans of Eric and Dylan's diaries. Crime scene photos including graphic imagery of the two kids killed outside the school before the killers went into the school itself. Fcuking autopsy reports of both the killers and the victims which had somehow been leaked. I was in some sort of gruesome Columbine-related glory. I learned so much and it fed my inquisitive nature about the tragedy.

The forum has since shut down. In fact, most of the forums now are either shut down (the forum on the Super Columbine RPG website) or not active anymore to warrant signing up or discussion (DylanKlebold.net). But yes. The story of Columbine, especially the two boys who did it is shallow on the surface but unbelievably deep when you look down.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

I went to Denver last year and went to Columbine. It was after hours but you could see through the windows of the Cafeteria and unbelievably they still use the exact same type of tables as were used during the massacre. The whole inside of the Cafeteria is exactly how it was 14 years ago.

 

[MaddAdam]

Back when I was completely obsessed with the tragedy around 2005/2006 I had a mate who was a member of an invite-only Columbine discussion forum. I was sent an invite and was allowed inside. The stuff that had been collected there was unbelievable. Scans of Eric and Dylan's diaries. Crime scene photos including graphic imagery of the two kids killed outside the school before the killers went into the school itself. Fcuking autopsy reports of both the killers and the victims which had somehow been leaked. I was in some sort of gruesome Columbine-related glory. I learned so much and it fed my inquisitive nature about the tragedy.

The forum has since shut down. In fact, most of the forums now are either shut down (the forum on the Super Columbine RPG website) or not active anymore to warrant signing up or discussion (DylanKlebold.net). But yes. The story of Columbine, especially the two boys who did it is shallow on the surface but unbelievably deep when you look down.

You probably know more about it than me, but my understanding is other kids were involved in the planning. Certainly, they warned their friend in the carpark it was going to happen.

Also, the whole stuff about "Marilyn Manson" type goth stuff is crap.

As I recall, Harris in particularly left some very revealing video diaries.

 

[ep2018]

I went to Denver last year and went to Columbine. It was after hours but you could see through the windows of the Cafeteria and unbelievably they still use the exact same type of tables as were used during the massacre. The whole inside of the Cafeteria is exactly how it was 14 years ago.

I've made sure to visit the school or at the very least the memorial next time I find myself in the US.

You probably know more about it than me, but my understanding is other kids were involved in the planning. Certainly, they warned their friend in the carpark it was going to happen.

Also, the whole stuff about "Marilyn Manson" type goth stuff is crap.

As I recall, Harris in particularly left some very revealing video diaries.

The only kids who I would go as far as to say they were involved in the planning were the two men, one of which who used to work at the same place Eric and Dylan worked, who sold Dylan the TEC-9 which he used during the shooting. I say involved because for some reason these two men who sold the weapon to Dylan both copped 6 year sentences if I remember correctly, however there was another person who allowed Eric to purchase three other guns who didn't get charged at all. So I'm assuming those two who got sent to jail we're at the very least knowing of what they planned to do with them.

Supposedly a couple knew they wanted to harm people at their school but they simply put it down to simply how weird and violent Eric seemed at the time, and took it as a joke.

As for the bolded. They are chilling. However some of the more juicy videos, the so called 'basement tapes' (as they were mostly made and found in Eric's basement) were never released to the public, and no leaks were ever made of them (except a short 15 second clip released by one of the victim's parents who was present when they were shown in private to the victim's families). Chances are they will never be released.

 

[ep2018]

Actually, if anyone is interested and have a lot of spare time on their hands, check out the so called '11k report'. Hundreds of witness statements from witnesses, friends of both the shooters and the victims, amongst other interesting tidbits.

http://evanlong.net/columbine/columbine-shooting-government-document-library/

 

[MaddAdam]

I've made sure to visit the school or at the very least the memorial next time I find myself in the US.


The only kids who I would go as far as to say they were involved in the planning were the two men, one of which who used to work at the same place Eric and Dylan worked, who sold Dylan the TEC-9 which he used during the shooting. I say involved because for some reason these two men who sold the weapon to Dylan both copped 6 year sentences if I remember correctly, however there was another person who allowed Eric to purchase three other guns who didn't get charged at all. So I'm assuming those two who got sent to jail we're at the very least knowing of what they planned to do with them.

Supposedly a couple knew they wanted to harm people at their school but they simply put it down to simply how weird and violent Eric seemed at the time, and took it as a joke.

As for the bolded. They are chilling. However some of the more juicy videos, the so called 'basement tapes' (as they were mostly made and found in Eric's basement) were never released to the public, and no leaks were ever made of them (except a short 15 second clip released by one of the victim's parents who was present when they were shown in private to the victim's families). Chances are they will never be released.

My understanding is that Harris was the "ringleader" and Klebold more "went along with it". Harris the actual sociopath who used Klebold etc?

I remember when it happened reading a particularly bathetic detail - that when they walked into the cafeteria Klebold held up one of the weapons and started to fire "movie style" and the recoil kicked it back and it broke his nose. It just seemed so ... sad on so many levels.

 

[MaddAdam]

Just Googled it - Brooks Brown, that kid.

He knows plenty more than has ever come out.

Also, fascinating the way so much of the prep stuff was happening online.

Dylan and Eric were aerly adopters in a sense.

 

[MaddAdam]

Actually, if anyone is interested and have a lot of spare time on their hands, check out the so called '11k report'. Hundreds of witness statements from witnesses, friends of both the shooters and the victims, amongst other interesting tidbits.

http://evanlong.net/columbine/columbine-shooting-government-document-library/

Cheers, I will check that out.

That happened in my early 20s.

I have always maintained that if we had the same access to guns as in the US, we'd see school shootings on a similar level as they have there. All the cultural conditions are identical, it is only lack of access to weapons that prevents it.

(I'd argue similar for workplace shootings too)

 

[ep2018]

My understanding is that Harris was the "ringleader" and Klebold more "went along with it". Harris the actual sociopath who used Klebold etc?

I remember when it happened reading a particularly bathetic detail - that when they walked into the cafeteria Klebold held up one of the weapons and started to fire "movie style" and the recoil kicked it back and it broke his nose. It just seemed so ... sad on so many levels.

The ringleader theory is definitely my opinion on it, however witnesses claimed that it was Dylan who seemed to be enjoying himself more - Dylan would taunt his victims before shooting them (he called a black kid a n**** before killing him) however Eric didn't really say much at all. Dylan was the one asking kids if they believed in God before shooting them, too. I'm not too sure that if Dylan was really someone who just went along with it that he would have taunted his victims beforehand.

Dylan didn't break his nose, it was actually Eric - he had killed a girl by shooting her point blank in the head with his shotgun, however the gun recoiled and hit his nose. Some people including myself believe that his broken nose 'killed the buzz' out of the massacre - shortly after, E+D wandered aimlessly around the corridors, past classes full of hiding students, yet didn't bother entering them to raise their kill count.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Back when I was completely obsessed with the tragedy around 2005/2006 I had a mate who was a member of an invite-only Columbine discussion forum. I was sent an invite and was allowed inside. The stuff that had been collected there was unbelievable. Scans of Eric and Dylan's diaries. Crime scene photos including graphic imagery of the two kids killed outside the school before the killers went into the school itself. Fcuking autopsy reports of both the killers and the victims which had somehow been leaked. I was in some sort of gruesome Columbine-related glory. I learned so much and it fed my inquisitive nature about the tragedy.


The forum has since shut down. In fact, most of the forums now are either shut down (the forum on the Super Columbine RPG website) or not active anymore to warrant signing up or discussion (DylanKlebold.net). But yes. The story of Columbine, especially the two boys who did it is shallow on the surface but unbelievably deep when you look down.

I have seen one or two photos that were dehumanising. That section of the internet is pretty obsessed though and I'm not surprised things were leaked and kept under wraps. Tumblr is appalling when it comes to hero worshipping the worst of humanity, and there's some websites where enough sleuthing brings up some sad and ominous s**t.

What interesting stuff do you remember reading and seeing?

Just Googled it - Brooks Brown, that kid.

He knows plenty more than has ever come out.

Also, fascinating the way so much of the prep stuff was happening online.

Dylan and Eric were aerly adopters in a sense.

Brooks Brown went on reddit, as much as I hate that place and what it means for internet 'culture,' and did an AMA. It's barely interesting after three or four replies. He's got a tumblr where the same thing goes down. I'm not sure if I agree with the notion of him knowing a whole lot, he does, but how interesting is it? I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I just think he's an emotional wreck who'll never be able to shed it.

The girl at the front, the first victim, apparently had a romantic thing with Brooks Brown. I have no idea how he'd think about surviving but then knowing she was the first to go. He says, in that reddit thread, that smoking saved his life. And that she was a smoker 'til a friend convinced her to quit a week before the massacre... considering she was on her break, she would've otherwise been smoking where everyone did: off-campus.

 

[ep2018]

I have seen one or two photos that were dehumanising. That section of the internet is pretty obsessed though and I'm not surprised things were leaked and kept under wraps. Tumblr is appalling when it comes to hero worshipping the worst of humanity, and there's some websites where enough sleuthing brings up some sad and ominous s**t.

What interesting stuff do you remember reading and seeing?

Mainly the crime scene photo's and the autopsy reports. It seemed a strange thing to leak. Plus the diary entries, especially Eric's.

Brooks Brown went on reddit, as much as I hate that place and what it means for internet 'culture,' and did an AMA. It's barely interesting after three or four replies. He's got a tumblr where the same thing goes down. I'm not sure if I agree with the notion of him knowing a whole lot, he does, but how interesting is it? I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I just think he's an emotional wreck who'll never be able to shed it.

I'm not too sure what to think of Brooks, there is definitely something strange about the exchange between Eric and himself just before the shooting began. Supposedly Dylan ratted Eric out to him once because Eric threatened to kill Brooks on his website, so it wouldn't be too long a bow to draw to assume Dylan told him they were planning a school shooting. They were friends, after all.

The girl at the front, the first victim, apparently had a romantic thing with Brooks Brown. I have no idea how he'd think about surviving but then knowing she was the first to go. He says, in that reddit thread, that smoking saved his life. And that she was a smoker 'til a friend convinced her to quit a week before the massacre... considering she was on her break, she would've otherwise been smoking where everyone did: off-campus.

Assuming you're talking about Rachel, I doubt there was anything romantic between Brooks and herself. I finished No Easy Answers (Brooks' book) and he claims he was friends with her mainly because she had dated his best friend for over a year. I doubt someone as anti-religious as Brooks Brown would bother attempting to go out with a girl who was fundamentally Christian. But yeah, good point above about how she would have been off school grounds had she still smoked (it is also mentioned in his book). A case where smoking would have saved a life.

 

[MaddAdam]

The ringleader theory is definitely my opinion on it, however witnesses claimed that it was Dylan who seemed to be enjoying himself more - Dylan would taunt his victims before shooting them (he called a black kid a n**** before killing him) however Eric didn't really say much at all. Dylan was the one asking kids if they believed in God before shooting them, too. I'm not too sure that if Dylan was really someone who just went along with it that he would have taunted his victims beforehand.

Dylan didn't break his nose, it was actually Eric - he had killed a girl by shooting her point blank in the head with his shotgun, however the gun recoiled and hit his nose. Some people including myself believe that his broken nose 'killed the buzz' out of the massacre - shortly after, E+D wandered aimlessly around the corridors, past classes full of hiding students, yet didn't bother entering them to raise their kill count.

Interesting. I agree with the "killed the buzz" idea there.

I'd also wondered about the stuff of taunting people before they shot them. It sorts of makes sense though if you view it as Eric on the "mission" (I believe the video diaries talk to a "cleanse the world" type of affair going on in his head) while Dylan is just having the time of his life.

I'm presuming you've seen the movie Elephant?

That is supposed to "talk to Columbine".

Though for me a far better flick that analyses that whole US teen culture is Bully.

I also feel, no real reason other than there's always good insights, we should bring blackcat into this.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'm not too sure what to think of Brooks, there is definitely something strange about the exchange between Eric and himself just before the shooting began. Supposedly Dylan ratted Eric out to him once because Eric threatened to kill Brooks on his website, so it wouldn't be too long a bow to draw to assume Dylan told him they were planning a school shooting. They were friends, after all.

Yeah, I thought that was fairly agreed - the talk on the Doom server and AOL page and stuff,

 

[ep2018]

Speaking of Brooks and that Reddit AMA he did, which is here by the way, he contradicts himself quite a bit when you compare his Reddit answers to the book he released. For example, in No Easy Answers he claims he never went to Dylan's funeral, however in the Reddit AMA he claims he went.