Opinion Comfortable games

[GoTigers2015]

What your post says to me is that it is a mental problem of arrogance. I felt this against the gold coast last year first game. The players had this air of arrogance like they would just turn up and it would fall on their lap. I think it still happens against lesser teams

Looked like it would be a repeat of the start of 2014 up to round 6. Since then have been playing more accountable footy and not just only the back 7. Players like Grigg, Ellis and MacIntosh push back in the back line to make it harder for the opposition to score or hit up targets. Our forwards have been leading further to provide an out. The team defence, controlled and efficient ball movement have been the main reasons we have won 7 out of the last 8. However we will need to pick up on our kicking into the forward line against better teams or we will start losing again. Because the Blues were even poorer skill wise we didn't get punished from turnovers. Can't afford to do this against the Saints.

 

[Lsta062]

View attachment 152101
It is such an even season. I would be just as nervous going up against Gold Coast as I would hawthorn. It's all about how much intensity the team brings on the day.

It definitely is an even season and we could upset them, but that would be the biggest test for our forward line this whole season. It is definitely not a stretch because we can beat any team on our day. Our forward line needs to fire against them like it did in 2012 and 2013, and I just know that they have heavy scoring capabilities somewhere within them. There are examples of this in every quarter; the 1st quarter against Fremantle, the 2nd quarter against Collingwood, the 3rd quarter against Sydney and the 4th quarter against Brisbane. It is just a matter of putting those performances together into one game, and I believe they are very capable to perform like this for 4 quarters. I hope they give us a preview in the St Kilda game

 

[Livonski]

Agree, but look at the number of times they kick over 15 goals
Have you seen their list ? They have run from defence right through to fwd line. The only way we will keep them to 8 goals is
1 if it buckets down all month
2 or in your dreams Livo
I admire your positivity though

It's not positivity, just my view of how to beat them.
For example, Essendon beat them in rd 2 by holding Hawthorn to 76pts
Swans beat them rd 8 by holding them to 69pts.

So there's 2 defeats this year where it wasn't necessary to kick 15 goals. It's not "in my dreams", there's some reality behind it.

 

[TigerImposter]

It's not positivity, just my view of how to beat them.
For example, Essendon beat them in rd 2 by holding Hawthorn to 76pts
Swans beat them rd 8 by holding them to 69pts.

So there's 2 defeats this year where it wasn't necessary to kick 15 goals. It's not "in my dreams", there's some reality behind it.

agree,but they were slowly away.They are warmed up now .KAC knows flags are won in September

 

[tunksy]

That's it. Griffiths may never be the player we all dream he could be and TV is too inconsistent.

Agree griffiths seems forever in and out. Vickery though imo is still a ruck/forward and should be taking the mantle from maric.

 

[RunningBounce]

Also doesn't help when the opposition flood back in record numbers, it feels like this is happening in every game we play,

Yep. Word got out that any team could beat Richmond by parking the bus (eg Melbourne, twice in a row), now they all ****ing do it.

I also tend to agree with the other posters that say our forward line carries too many passengers. Even if the opposition aren't dropping a spare back (which they almost always do), opposition defenders regularly just sift off our ineffective forwards, and fill space. When was the last time anyone spotted Riewoldt inside 50 competing one-on-one? If Ballantyne or Puopolo were our defensive forward, we'd dish out more floggings.

As it is, we've figured out how to win when the other team parks the bus. We've shown we have that elusive Plan B. They're all important steps. Getting more goal-scoring fire power into the forward pockets must be high on the list for the next off-season.

 

[I Rock]

I think the game the side plays of late lends itself to closer margins. I have a theory (and credit to the Coaching staff if it is true) that a big focus has been on limiting the damage done by oppositions during a momentum shift. This is what used to kill the side, a 10 minute lapse twice a game resulted in 8 plus goals against and another L in the right hand column more times than not. I think the Club concluded that they can't control the entire game and stop the momentum shifts, however they can limit the bleeding.

The side has been able to minimise this damage by a more defensive controlled game style, yet this also means they miss out of the 20 odd goals a game opportunity. Have a look at the scores against the last few weeks, 43-59-70-90-77-69-41. 90 being the loss too the Eagles, that’s some serious defense and ball control action there.

My biggest concern is the team still struggles when they are hunted rather than the hunter.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Yep. Word got out that any team could beat Richmond by parking the bus (eg Melbourne, twice in a row), now they all ******* do it.

I also tend to agree with the other posters that say our forward line carries too many passengers. Even if the opposition aren't dropping a spare back (which they almost always do), opposition defenders regularly just sift off our ineffective forwards, and fill space. When was the last time anyone spotted Riewoldt inside 50 competing one-on-one? If Ballantyne or Puopolo were our defensive forward, we'd dish out more floggings.

As it is, we've figured out how to win when the other team parks the bus. We've shown we have that elusive Plan B. They're all important steps. Getting more goal-scoring fire power into the forward pockets must be high on the list for the next off-season.

I think it was the Bulldogs in round 2 who employed the flood back and then slingshot down the ground and it worked that day, don't think it would work if we played them from round 8 onwards IMO.
As for the forward line, you can fix the forward line, I just feel we are trying to play too much of that Freo first qtr, good to spot up targets inside 50 but you don't need to do it all the time, no greater example of Dusty getting the ball just outside 50 on his own and then trying to hit a target inside 50 when he should've launched at the goals.

 

[RunningBounce]

I think it was the Bulldogs in round 2 who employed the flood back and then slingshot down the ground and it worked that day, don't think it would work if we played them from round 8 onwards IMO.

Yep, the Dogs in Round 2 made it work spectacularly, but they weren't the first or the last. As well as Melbourne, I'd say that North have had that tactic on file for pre-season training for at least two seasons. Lachie Hansen loves floating loose behind the ball against us, and is very good at it.

Putting loose spare players in the backline is an under 12s trick. It is really pleasing to see that since Round 8, we've been able to work around it.

Having said that, I wish I was at the ground to see the WCE game firsthand. Seemed like McGovern was playing the Lachie Hansen-type game, and pretty much proved the difference, so maybe we still have some work to do.

 

[Lsta062]

Yep. Word got out that any team could beat Richmond by parking the bus (eg Melbourne, twice in a row), now they all ******* do it.

I also tend to agree with the other posters that say our forward line carries too many passengers. Even if the opposition aren't dropping a spare back (which they almost always do), opposition defenders regularly just sift off our ineffective forwards, and fill space. When was the last time anyone spotted Riewoldt inside 50 competing one-on-one? If Ballantyne or Puopolo were our defensive forward, we'd dish out more floggings.

As it is, we've figured out how to win when the other team parks the bus. We've shown we have that elusive Plan B. They're all important steps. Getting more goal-scoring fire power into the forward pockets must be high on the list for the next off-season.

From what I recall, the year before Fremantle went beserk in 2013, Adelaide went beserk in 2006, St Kilda went beserk in 2009, Sydney went beserk in 2005, I recall them all being in a similar situation as us; not being very big on scoring but having a solid defence. The following year, they increased their attacking and were scoring heavily against teams (maybe except Sydney) while at the same time having a solid defence. This is the route I can see us heading and training/trading for in the offseason.

Problem is, Sydney is the only one who got a Premiership out of those teams I mentioned. Still, being competitive on that level is better than what we are doing now

 

[RunningBounce]

From what I recall, the year before Fremantle went beserk in 2013, Adelaide went beserk in 2006, St Kilda went beserk in 2009, Sydney went beserk in 2005, I recall them all being in a similar situation as us; not being very big on scoring but having a solid defence. The following year, they increased their attacking and were scoring heavily against teams (maybe except Sydney) while at the same time having a solid defence. This is the route I can see us heading and training/trading for in the offseason.

Spot on. All those teams built a great backline, or team defence, then got the scoring sorted. It's interesting that the defence-first approach didn't get more than one premiership between that lot.

For us, I reckon improvement from some young 'uns like Cellis or Lennon or McDonough (if he can get a run in the firsts), and some consistency from Griff and Vickery will go a long way towards fixing things. But how good would it be to trade in a potent specialist forward...

 

[Lsta062]

Spot on. All those teams built a great backline, or team defence, then got the scoring sorted. It's interesting that the defence-first approach didn't get more than one premiership between that lot.

For us, I reckon improvement from some young 'uns like Cellis or Lennon or McDonough (if he can get a run in the firsts), and some consistency from Griff and Vickery will go a long way towards fixing things. But how good would it be to trade in a potent specialist forward...

Adelaide and St Kilda were really unlucky I would have to say. They were fantastic in 2006 and 2009 respectively.

Yes to the bolded bit. I really think our forward line is our biggest issue at the moment. Our inside 50s this season has been much higher than our opposition when we lost in many games this year (and in the "ugly wins" against lower-placed opposition). I personally think that inconsistency in the output received from our forward line plays a big role. Those guys you mentioned have a lot of potential in my opinion (and McDonough and Lennon have a shot this week to prove their worth), but we are lacking one thing that many teams with good attack have (and I think is a bigger issue than inconsistency in form): a classy small forward.

There are many times when I watch Richmond play that I see our forward line completely congested - especially against lower-placed teams. Our boys end up failing to attack in such situations, so the ball leaves our forward 50 and goes back to the middle. It comes back into our forward 50 straight away either because of good play from our defence or our midfield. After another entrance into our forward 50, attack breaks down again. Why? I think it is because we don't have an Eddie Betts type who can just pick the ball right off the ground and snap it through. Our goals generally comes from the traditional kick into the forward 50, mark the ball and then kick a goal from what I have seen. Doing that alone won't get you those high scores - we have one of the highest inside 50 marks in the competition from what I remember (I could be wrong), but have no where near the highest points scored this season (we rank 11th in points for). Of course, poor entry into the forward 50 also plays a role here.

I think this is the answer. This is probably why the lower-placed teams do so well against us. They congest our forward 50 because they know that we won't be able to score much in such situations and sacrifice their own attack so that they can keep the scores low and beat us while their forward 50 is relatively empty (this is why Alex Rance has done such a good job in our defence because he saves many of these would-be goals). Against other sides with quality small forwards that will continuously perform, such as Hawthorn, lower-placed teams will not be able to do this. They are stuck because:

1. They can't flood the defence. This is because:

a) The opposition's small forwards are able to kick goals from such congested situations anyways
b) Their opposition's defence is too good to leave it empty as they are capable of winning the 1-on-1 contests more often than not.

2. They also can't leave the defence empty in hope of outscoring the opposition in a shootout because:

a) The opposition's forward line will give them a bathing
b) Their opposition's defence is able to hold them to a scoreline that allows them to outscore them

Either way, they will lose against a team like Hawthorn. They'll probably try to flip structure mid-game, making it worse, ending in a blowout.

Against us however, the lower-placed teams will choose option 1 because they know that we don't score well in congested situations since we don't have that small forward who is able to pick up the ball and snap it through. So, they'll try to flood our forward line so that we don't score much, and then try to move the ball really quickly to their own forward 50 so that they avoid congestion in there + try to win their battle against their opponent in our defensive 50 that was left empty due to congestion down our forward 50. Our midfield would be better than theirs, so you get this repeated inside 50s entry for us with little reward. Eventually though, it will charge up towards their attacking half. Then, it is a matter of our back line. Credit to our back line though (especially Rance) because they don't let their opponents score much most days. Nevertheless, this is why I think most of our games against the lower sides are generally close.

See how much of a difference a quality small forward makes in this scenario? We definitely need one from another team over the offseason (Motlop comes to mind right now) and we can continue to develop Short until he is ready to come in. Then, we would have that problem fixed and look a lot more dangerous.

We also need another classy mid that can dispose of the ball in a clean manner because our entry inside 50 can be very poor at times (Treloar comes to mind), so our dysfunctional forward line is not only because of the lack of a classy and consistent small forward. Griffiths and Vickery need to step up as well, but I am confident they will with the addition of a good small forward and a clean midfielder.

Another glaring issue is our ruck department, but I don't need to say much about that. Getting a good small forward, a good midfielder and a solid ruckman would make our side look so much better, and with the addition of youngsters like Lennon, McBean, Short, Cellis and McDonough improving, our team would be able to compete for a premiership in the near future if not next year

This is all just in my assessment and is obviously not a fact.

 

[Achilles Heel]

We lairise too much vs teams we should beat easily. The give off inside 50 is a classic example. In game vs Sydney, Freo we hit targets go back and kick it. Vs GWS and bloos we try dinky kicks to team mates instead of going back and pulling the trigger.

We need to show more grunt in comfortable games. Teams like Hawks,cats an lions when winning/competing for flags were ruthless in comfortable games.

Something for the coaching group to work on.

exactly

 

[TigerAndy]

Like seriously, it's half time in this game and it's really tight already- but Richmond have won once in the past 17 wins by a margin of 50+ points (against the Lions in Round 3). The Saints victory to start the streak last year was also fairly comfortable.

What is it about Richmond not being able to put any team away?

Dont have an answer there but I have ordered 5 new "seat edges" to get me through the rest of the season

 

[rideclutch]

Lack of maturity for one, we'll get there.

Wasting endless amounts of inside 50's would be the other. Think it was 52 to 27 or something tonight for a 5 goal win. Just nowhere near efficient enough.

Still lacking maturity. Few blokes just clocked off at 3QT.

Not whinging about a win, but it's clear we still have improvement to go.

 

[RunningBounce]

(and McDonough and Lennon have a shot this week to prove their worth), but we are lacking one thing that many teams with good attack have (and I think is a bigger issue than inconsistency in form): a classy small forward.

His not small, but Lennon's 3 goals were all snuck through from congestion. Hopefully, he can cement his spot, and keep doing that.

 

[Lsta062]

His not small, but Lennon's 3 goals were all snuck through from congestion. Hopefully, he can cement his spot, and keep doing that.

Yes, that was exactly what we needed in our team. If Edwards, Griffiths and Vickery come back into the side and continue what they have been doing, and Lennon scores goals from congestion like that, we should have a decent answer to our forward problems. Let's wait and see if McDonough starts firing too along with Lennon in the forward line. We could actually match a team like Hawthorn offensively then