Opinion Commentary & Media III

ferball

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I think what Kayne is trying to say (poorly, but he's not paid for his communication skills) is that talk is cheap, actions speak louder words. Awful cliches, but on this occasion he would have been clearer if he resorted to using them.
I got the impression he means no one feels comfortable taking the lead on field and driving standards. That article is a worry imo and points out some real problems.

I get the idea of not being driven by stats but to "never put pressure on numbers" is a massive issue imo.
 

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I get the idea of not being driven by stats but to "never put pressure on numbers" is a massive issue imo.
I couldn't agree more. If you can't/don't measure something you can't improve it. And while the coaching staff my be across the numbers the players should have individual accountability. It 'reads' as if that is not the case.

And it is about the right stats. What ever the internal measures (expectations) are....
 

Kimbo

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How come we have to have a crisis for us to actually train hard and with strong intensity? That should be a ******* standard?! We got to wait 10 years?!

We are legit taking the piss
I get the frustration, but you don't really think we've only now decided to flick a switch do you? Over a ten year journey, there will be certain standards set that you'd assume they believe are appropriate and, at the same time, things can wax and wane. Further increasing training intensity, if that's what's happening isn't a bad thing. But to assume it's been missing for ten years seems over-the-top unless, a player led training culture has slackened off since Boomer retired?
 

Kimbo

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God only knows what sort of coach he is then. Or how he enforces standards to players.
Given you're smart enough to not fall victim to binary thinking - such as Brad is all good/all bad - what would you assess as his strengths?

It's pretty clear from your persistent sarcasm that you're completely over him - I get that - but surely you're not one to throw the baby out with the bath water KC? He has limitations and it's quite likely those limitations are about to cause his demise, but you don't retain a senior coaching role for ten years without strengths.
 

Kimbo

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I got the impression he means no one feels comfortable taking the lead on field and driving standards. That article is a worry imo and points out some real problems.

I get the idea of not being driven by stats but to "never put pressure on numbers" is a massive issue imo.
ferbs, we've had chats before about linguistic constructionism. I wouldn't take Kayne's comments too literally. He's no rocket surgeon and he's speaking to his experience through the inadequacy of (his) language that doesn't necessarily reflect Brad's (whole) thinking.

I'd imagine Brad could well be adopting a strengths-based approach with Kayne, seeking to highlight what he does do well when he's playing well (tackling, one-per centers) and that his focus is on the whole forward group/mix. The article also refers to disappointment with the (numerical) ranking for forward pressure - "The stats showed we were down near the bottom in that area, so we sort of had it put on us as the forwards." - so clearly numbers do have a relevance.

I could imagine a situation in which Brad focuses on, for example, his goal assist stats, not his goal stats. I can also imagine Brad leaves the 'stats' side of things to the line coaches when it comes to communication with players and that he could well be looking over stats and giving his input and take on things in coaches meetings, leaving it to them to communicate what's necessary. Doesn't mean that if the player isn't experiencing a focus on numbers directly from the senior coach, that he isn't concerned about it. The quarter-time interviews that Brad does shows quite clearly that he is well aware of key statistics and the implications.
 
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Given you're smart enough to not fall victim to binary thinking - such as Brad is all good/all bad - what would you assess as his strengths?

It's pretty clear from your persistent sarcasm that you're completely over him - I get that - but surely you're not one to throw the baby out with the bath water KC? He has limitations and it's quite likely those limitations are about to cause his demise, but you don't retain a senior coaching role for ten years without strengths.
Without being aware of the breadth of threads that you read Kimbo I've posted plenty of positives about him over the journey.

No those positives don't balance up with the negatives (as I see them) because a decade of coaching without ever achieving a double chance in finals indicates he's not a resounding success for the length of tenure he's enjoyed.

You denounce binary thinking then again put up "but you don't retain a senior coaching role for ten years without strengths" as a comment. No one is reasonably suggesting he has no strengths.

In response to your original question, in no particular order some of Brad Scott's strength:
  • Excellent communicator and spokesman for club
  • Open to modern concepts such as embracing findings from sports science, athletic 'lifestyle' camps such as Utah etc
  • During the 2010-15 period at times had the side playing some dynamic exciting running football, a pleasant shift from the stodgy "hold the ball up" brand that plagued latter Laidley (interesting that Scott seems to have drifted towards this in 2019 however)
  • Similar to the above, at our best he's engineered a side that played some excellent attacking football (2012-13) and defensive football (2014 & 2018) under Scott
  • Loved by the majority of players under his watch as verified by our very low attrition
  • Heard almost nothing but positives from those who deal directly with him, by all reports a lovely person
However like many others for about 3-4 seasons there have been (disclaimer: 'in my opinion') signals that I considered to indicate the relationship had run its course.

The 2015 Collingwood comeback loss I've referred to several times to me summed up a game flow that he still hadn't sorted out in 2-3 seasons of the same pattern. I took that as 'he's never going to work it out' and I'd have seen him off then.

Again as already stated in other posts the conclusion of 2016 was a perfect junction (disclaimer: 'in my opinion') to cease his involvement after 1.5 list builds that collapsed in a perfect heap and give someone else the chance to trade out of our losing positions and build up again.

I suspect you're latching on to my and board sarcasm and a bit of giggling as an indication of knee jerk reaction but that's not how I see it.
 

FlyHigh18

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Wayne Carey, greatest player and now commentator writes an article focusing on how the players need improve their performance. - Big footy shoots it down.

A nobody writes an article in the Sun focusing on how the players need to run and tackle more and be more risky- big footy thinks it’s the greatest article ever written.

Keep up the good work guys.
 

LuvtheKangas

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Wayne Carey, greatest player and now commentator writes an article focusing on how the players need improve their performance. - Big footy shoots it down.

A nobody writes an article in the Sun focusing on how the players need to run and tackle more and be more risky- big footy thinks it’s the greatest article ever written.

Keep up the good work guys.
With all due respect, what a load of rubbish.
 

see see

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Wayne Carey, greatest player and now commentator writes an article focusing on how the players need improve their performance. - Big footy shoots it down.

A nobody writes an article in the Sun focusing on how the players need to run and tackle more and be more risky- big footy thinks it’s the greatest article ever written.

Keep up the good work guys.
You clearly didn't see Mick McGuane play footy. He looked like a cross between Quasimodo and a stick insect but was an absolute gun due in no small part to his footy smarts.
 

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Harris 10

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You clearly didn't see Mick McGuane play footy. He looked like a cross between Quasimodo and a stick insect but was an absolute gun due in no small part to his footy smarts.
Premiership player, 2 b&f’s
Injuries got him in the end but he was a star.
 

Orange Peanut

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Wayne Carey, greatest player and now commentator writes an article focusing on how the players need improve their performance. - Big footy shoots it down.

A nobody writes an article in the Sun focusing on how the players need to run and tackle more and be more risky- big footy thinks it’s the greatest article ever written.

Keep up the good work guys.
Yeah that Big Footy bloke hey? Always giving conflicting opinions.
 

LuvtheKangas

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Injuries got him in the end but he was a star.
And, more to the point, his analysis was both considered and insightful. He wrote it after observing games AND training.

Carey just gave a superficial clip to the players and a "get-out-of-jail-free" card to Brad.
 

ferball

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ferbs, we've had chats before about linguistic constructionism. I wouldn't take Kayne's comments too literally. He's no rocket surgeon and he's speaking to his experience through the inadequacy of (his) language that doesn't necessarily reflect Brad's (whole) thinking.

I'd imagine Brad could well be adopting a strengths-based approach with Kayne, seeking to highlight what he does do well when he's playing well (tackling, one-per centers) and that his focus is on the whole forward group/mix. The article also refers to disappointment with the (numerical) ranking for forward pressure - "The stats showed we were down near the bottom in that area, so we sort of had it put on us as the forwards." - so clearly numbers do have a relevance.

I could imagine a situation in which Brad focuses on, for example, his goal assist stats, not his goal stats. I can also imagine Brad leaves the 'stats' side of things to the line coaches when it comes to communication with players and that he could well be looking over stats and giving his input and take on things in coaches meetings, leaving it to them to communicate what's necessary. Doesn't mean that if the player isn't experiencing a focus on numbers directly from the senior coach, that he isn't concerned about it. The quarter-time interviews that Brad does shows quite clearly that he is well aware of key statistics and the implications.
"The coaches never put pressure on numbers, especially Brad (Scott) – he's not a numbers sort of coach – so that's massive for us."

I do get that stats aren't everything and that they are used at the club, and also with a low possession game, which we've had for most of Brad's time its not as important. And that whatever comes up in meeting the line coaches will be the ones focusing on it. Its a chain of command sort of thing.

(And equal 7th for scoring assists (not his fault the others can't kick straight) is a genuinely good stat.)

What do the coaches put pressure on tho? Especially at the moment considering how shit we're playing.

Also this is what really got me:

"We've seen we had a poor start to the year … (and) out on the field, we might discuss how we're feeling and 'Let's try and step it up now', but we sort of don't want to speak about it.

"It's better if we don't have to speak about it and it's just happening."


Possibly out of context and what have you but that to me reinforces what I see on field.

A lack of leadership.

No one prepared to stand up onfield and drive a change in what is happening. Noone able to identify what's going wrong and act on it. That "act on it" bit includes communicating with/yelling at your teammates. Yelling is important on a footy field cos of the noise and the intensity of the situation. It gets attention and conveys urgency. It doesn't have to be a sign of disrespect.

You can't just hope things will magically click. You've got to do things to make that happen. You have to identify why it isn't clicking then adjust the situation accordingly - observe where and why the opposition are winning then act on that. For example against Essendon in the first quarter when Essendon were dominating the ball movement out of our 50 by simply keeping space open in the defensive corners of the centre square. Especially on the right hand side looking toward their goal. They took multiple uncontested marks there on their way out. And they were doing it easily.

It happened repeatedly and didn't cost us at that point but no one field acted on that (and obviously no coaching messages were passed on to bench players.)

When it started costing us they went thru there repeatedly.
 
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Bit of a nothing article from Wayne, he is correct with everything he wrote about the forward line, however he is wrong in saying that that's our bigest issues, It's the Midfield thats the biggest concern followed by the useless forward line.
I stopped reading after he said JZ should use his running power.
 

ferball

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You clearly didn't see Mick McGuane play footy. He looked like a cross between Quasimodo and a stick insect but was an absolute gun due in no small part to his footy smarts.
LOL

When Boomer kicked the point of the century the only play that came to my mind as similar was a Mick McGuane goal, kicked after he bounced the ball 150 times, as he ran from outside the stadium, thru the goal posts and the entire lenghth of the field. Twice.
 

LB2Snake

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One of the best football articles I've read ever. Well thought out, no hyperbole and illuminating.

Out of interest for some reason the last quality article I recall sticking in the mind was by the netball coach Joyce Brown (Fraser's mum) who wrote about attending Richmond and North Melbourne training sessions in the 90s before they played each other and noting how the former did lots of 'pretty' drills under ideal uncontested conditions while North trained their drills 'ugly' under high pressure.

Fwiw North won.
Something that has bothered me for years is our loopy/floaty handballs where every other side hits these laser like passes between each other. You rarely see North in close with that super fast ball movement by hand.
Might be something in that article King Corey
I do think we try and play a bruise free flowing type of footy with ball in hand
 

Val Keating

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So a suburban coach can get off a stool in the TAB, wander down to Arden Street, and in two hours work out some of our obvious issues?

What does that tell you about the people we have down there running the show?

FFS, get him on to the coaching panel in some capacity. Now.
McGuane’s a bit more then that though. He’s got a great footy brain. He’s often on the radio providing analysis. Can’t believe he hasn’t been given a full time gig either in the afl coaching ranks or media.

Maybe he doesn’t kiss enough backsides?
 
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McGuane’s a bit more then that though. He’s got a great footy brain. He’s often on the radio providing analysis. Can’t believe he hasn’t been given a full time gig either in the afl coaching ranks or media.

Maybe he doesn’t kiss enough backsides?
Perhaps it is long standing rumours of bad habits

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Thewlis Dish

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Wayne Carey, greatest player and now commentator writes an article focusing on how the players need improve their performance. - Big footy shoots it down.

A nobody writes an article in the Sun focusing on how the players need to run and tackle more and be more risky- big footy thinks it’s the greatest article ever written.

Keep up the good work guys.
McGuane has won a multitude of flags as a coach and is very well-renowned as a tactical footy mind.
 

Thewlis Dish

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McGuane’s a bit more then that though. He’s got a great footy brain. He’s often on the radio providing analysis. Can’t believe he hasn’t been given a full time gig either in the afl coaching ranks or media.

Maybe he doesn’t kiss enough backsides?
Pretty sure he has said previously he much prefers working with amateur players and doesn't have interest in the professional ranks.
 
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