Autopsy Comparison between the Hawks and D's since the merger vote.

Todman

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After reading Jake Nialls article in The Age it started me thinking about another comparison
The aftermath of the Melbourne Hawks merger.
On Field ....(1997- 2013)............................................... Hawthorn ............................................. Melbourne
Head to Head ....................................................................... 18 .......................................................... 7
H&A wins ................................................ 197 .................................. 138
H&A losses .......................................................................... 175 .......................................................... 233
H&A Draws ................................................................................ 2 ................................................................. 3
Finals Series contested.................................. 8 ............................................... 6
Finals Wins .............................................................................13 .................................................................... 6
Final loses ..............................................................................7 .................................................................... 6
Grand finals ........................................................................... 3 ..................................................................... 1
Premierships........................................................................... 2 ................................................................... 0
Brownlow Medalists ......................... Shane Crawford .... 1999 .........................................Shane Woewoedin.... 2000
Rising Star Winners..............................Sam Mitchell ..... 2003 ............................................Jared Rivers..... 2004
Rising Star nominees .........................................................26 ......................................................................... 31
Coleman Medalists ...................................... Franklin 2008,2011, .................................................. David Neitz 2002
........................................................................ Roughead, 2013
Sacked Coaches ..................................................... 1 (Schwab) ........................................ 4 (Balme, Daniher, Bailey, Neeld)

Off Field (from both clubs 2013 annual reports)

Members (1996) ............................................................12,484 .................................................................... 12,964
Presidents (since 1996)......................................................3 ................................................................................ 6
Members (2013) ............................................................ 63,353 .................................................................. 33,177
Revenue (2013) .......................................................... $ 51 Million ............................................................. $ 39 Million
Merchandise ............................................................... $ 3.7 Million ............................................................ $ 0.7 Million
Profit/(loss 2013) ..........................................................$ 3.1 Million ......................................................... ($ 3.1 Million)
AFL Assistance 2013............................................................0 ...................................................................... $ 1.45 Million
Cash (2013) ..................................................................$ 9.7 Million ............................................................ $ 0.8 Million
Total Assets (2013) .................................................... $ 26.5 Million ........................................................... $ 3.2 Million
 

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Yuley95

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#2
After reading Jake Nialls article in The Age it started me thinking about another comparison
The aftermath of the Melbourne Hawks merger.

Merchandise ............................................................... $ 3.7 Million ............................................................ $ 0.7 Million
Profit/(loss 2013) ..........................................................$ 3.1 Million ......................................................... ($ 3.1 Million)
Nice comparison (unless you are a D's fan). Interesting to note our merchandise sales and profit (though I am sure there is a lot of fancy accounting that goes into ensuring we build our investments without making too much profit).

I assume we will lose about $10 million over 9 years from our merchandise sales since TO'B took over the famed number 23.
 

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#3
Good work Todman. The only thing Melbourne can brag that they are better than us at is sacking the coach. God, I really didn't realise just how important our votes were that night. There was pressure from highly regarded Hawks to vote for the "takeover." (In my mind it was a takeover, and not the uniting of the two clubs. Thanks Don!
 
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#7
To be brutally honest, this thread feels a little like sticking the boot into someone when they're down, in slightly poor taste...
It illustrates why a lot more dees fans were happy to merge/ takover

Inside the club it was very much presented as a takeover, with the mcc i kid you not, the mcc getting to appoint the president and casting vote on the board
In candid moments they said along the lines of we are shit, we will always be shit, this is our chance to take over a successful club, who honestly must be bonkers to allow this.

Yet they still thought they were superior because of the melbourne name and old boys network. Could they not see that spelled disaster, if it wasnt a hawks takeover ?
 

Roddy

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#8
It illustrates why a lot more dees fans were happy to merge/ takover

Inside the club it was very much presented as a takeover, with the mcc i kid you not, the mcc getting to appoint the president and casting vote on the board
In candid moments they said along the lines of we are shit, we will always be shit, this is our chance to take over a successful club, who honestly must be bonkers to allow this.

Yet they still thought they were superior because of the melbourne name and old boys network. Could they not see that spelled disaster, if it wasnt a hawks takeover ?
Yeah, all well and groovy, but it's almost 2 decades ago now, time to let it go...
 
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Yeah, all well and groovy, but it's almost 2 decades ago now, time to let it go...

Mate, ill be ready next time they come after us. You dont think there was more than a little jealousy when the rest of the AFL let it happen ? Why would a competition in its right mind get rid of a club like the hawks ?
 

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1970crow

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#12
Apologies for the intrusion. Apart from presidents/coaches, I thought the starkest contrast was the change in membership numbers. We're there a heap of unsigned hawks supporters back then or could the boom of the last few years be attributed to the outstanding success of the 80's.
 
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Apologies for the intrusion. Apart from presidents/coaches, I thought the starkest contrast was the change in membership numbers. We're there a heap of unsigned hawks supporters back then or could the boom of the last few years be attributed to the outstanding success of the 80's.
Little from column A, little from column B. I think a lot of people got a serious wake up call and have not forgotten since. There is without a doubt, a young brigade of supporters also involved with the club
This was discussed briefly in another thread, but Hawthorn is now a surprisingly fashionable club. The colours are much brighter with new materials and look great on he field contrasting opposition colours. It's also a marketing thing, the board have done a terrific job identifying pockets of available support and garnering it. Helps to be up the top of the ladder too.
 

Todman

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To be brutally honest, this thread feels a little like sticking the boot into someone when they're down, in slightly poor taste...
I started looking at this after wiki Melbourne Hawks page.

Whereas our board has been remarkably stable (apart for Don Scott calling for Dicker to go for a year before he finally did) the D's board has had three coups since.

Whereas our board embraced our members at took them with them the D's used Gutnicks $3 Million and told supporters to go back to sleep.

In short Hawthorn rebuilt from the ground up , Melbourne laid a large concrete slab on muddy ground and forget to prepare any foundation work.
 

Todman

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Apologies for the intrusion. Apart from presidents/coaches, I thought the starkest contrast was the change in membership numbers. We're there a heap of unsigned hawks supporters back then or could the boom of the last few years be attributed to the outstanding success of the 80's.
When I started high School in 1976 I was the only Hawk supporter in the school. Most barracked for Richmond or Collingwood. We were in the Fitzroy zone but no-one barracked for them.

I moved to Melbourne in 1981 as a FT student and noticed that most Hawk supporters were much younger than me. (For some reason Carlton had the prettiest girls) Maybe because I avoided the blockbusters, Dad could take their kids and get a seat and known a win was expected. I can remember being at Optus on a wet day and playing the Bears with 5,000 other hawks. I was the only person sitting in a bank of seats. These kids are now in their 30's and 40's buying membership for themselves and their children.
 

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#17
I started looking at this after wiki Melbourne Hawks page.

Whereas our board has been remarkably stable (apart for Don Scott calling for Dicker to go for a year before he finally did) the D's board has had three coups since.

Whereas our board embraced our members at took them with them the D's used Gutnicks $3 Million and told supporters to go back to sleep.

In short Hawthorn rebuilt from the ground up , Melbourne laid a large concrete slab on muddy ground and forget to prepare any foundation work.

Great post, Mr Tod.

Very simple plan:

1. Hawks built the club around members.
2. Demons took big money from one "member".

And for those saying "it was 20 years ago, time to forget", we must never forget that our club fought against merging, and have stood tall and alone.
It's a major part of our history.
 
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#18
Great post, Mr Tod.

Very simple plan:

1. Hawks built the club around members.
2. Demons took big money from one "member".

And for those saying "it was 20 years ago, time to forget", we must never forget that our club fought against merging, and have stood tall and alone.
It's a major part of our history.
We need to also note that the no vote was under 10,000. Even if they are all still members, more than 30 or 40 thoussand adult voting members did not, and would have the 'move on' approach
 

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#19
Apologies for the intrusion. Apart from presidents/coaches, I thought the starkest contrast was the change in membership numbers. We're there a heap of unsigned hawks supporters back then or could the boom of the last few years be attributed to the outstanding success of the 80's.

For a lot of people, the merger thing was when they really became hawks fans. It was like a rocket up the arse. When Scott presented the idea that if we all jumped on board and bought memberships that we could save the club, it tipped a bunch of teetering fans over the edge.
 

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#20
For a lot of people, the merger thing was when they really became hawks fans. It was like a rocket up the arse. When Scott presented the idea that if we all jumped on board and bought memberships that we could save the club, it tipped a bunch of teetering fans over the edge.
I was 16/17 at the time & remember discussing it with a MFC supporting mate. All he could think about was the team that the 'Melbourne Hawks' would field the following year - all I could think about was supporting a hybrid club that didn't mean anything any more. This is obviously an isolated discussion between kids from Perth but it always struck me as the difference between "us & them" - at least to my level of understanding at the time.
 
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#22
I was 16/17 at the time & remember discussing it with a MFC supporting mate. All he could think about was the team that the 'Melbourne Hawks' would field the following year - all I could think about was supporting a hybrid club that didn't mean anything any more. This is obviously an isolated discussion between kids from Perth but it always struck me as the difference between "us & them" - at least to my level of understanding at the time.
It's a bit harder for kids that age to understand just how important the club is. I was the same age and did everything I could, but I had nothing like the passion that I would, if it happened again today. The club and individual relationship develop a much stronger bond with time, because you've lived it's history.
 

Flukey!

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#23
What I find most interesting in all those stats is that we have only had 60 more wins than them over that period.
That's only ~3.5 games a season.
But I suppose we were shite for an extended period during that time.

It reinforces how good a decision it was by our members to vote against it and for Melbourne to vote for it.
We all got it right.
 
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#24
I was 16/17 at the time & remember discussing it with a MFC supporting mate. All he could think about was the team that the 'Melbourne Hawks' would field the following year - all I could think about was supporting a hybrid club that didn't mean anything any more. This is obviously an isolated discussion between kids from Perth but it always struck me as the difference between "us & them" - at least to my level of understanding at the time.
My take was that if anyone wanted to support a club called melbourne, they just had to switch clubs, and leave us to save our club

If it was today the focus would have been on the combined strength of the team, but it would either have to shed starrs or be a very old team. That was truly short sighted
 

Easy Slips Catch

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#25
What I find most interesting in all those stats is that we have only had 60 more wins than them over that period.
That's only ~3.5 games a season......

Given we have been a recent power house those figures are not too bad for them. Yet Go Dees are in crisis. Those Melbourne members who voted their club out of existence got it right.
 
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