Analysis Comparison in crowd figures between Suns and Titans

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Mr Bods

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Might be over forever if the news today is on the money
Gold Coast sport :(
Good if you're into surf lifesaving
No need for that. Why upset me? That’s the same as how Tasmania comments upset Suns fans.

The arguments for the Suns are the same as they are for the Titans and why are you allowing that low life GC hater Peter Badel of the Drongoe Hate Media to formulate “news”.

You know this has been going on for a while in this thread, people will post anything negative about the Titans possibly to troll me but any good news like the Training Centre, the Leagues Club, Local Players debuting or making rep teams doesn’t get put in.

I can tell you hand on heart nobody at the Titans Forum is campaigning against the Suns in the forum.

The Titans owners Kelly and Frizelle are just as committed as Tony Cochrane.

This is an excerpt from an email Ms Frizelle sent me about a month ago

“One thing I can assure you of is that we will not give up the fight. We are here for the long term and to promote, protect and grow our wonderful Club and the game of Rugby League. It is important though that I say a very big thank you again as without your loyal support and ongoing belief we couldn’t do it - THANK YOU.”

We will rise. Both of us.
 

GC2015

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Might be over forever if the news today is on the money
Gold Coast sport :(
Good if you're into surf lifesaving
That's really tough on our city if we lose the Titans but the broadcasters have long recognised the need for a second NRL team in Brisbane and (sadly) removing the Titans is the path of least resistance. The traditionalists down in Sydney would argue for teams like Cronulla to remain in the competition where as there would really only be a small group of supporters based on the GC that would try to keep the Titans alive and their voice is unlikely to be heard by the honchos down in Sydney. Out of sight, out of mind.

I personally think it would be ridiculous to remove/relocate the Titans ahead of a Sydney team. The Sydney market is completely over saturated and that's reflected in some of the crowds these teams pull on a weekly basis. They should either remove or relocate one of the Sydney teams and replace said team with a second Brisbane franchise and continue to plug away at the Gold Coast market. If they give up then all it will take for the town to become AFL mad is for the Suns to win on a regular basis and we all know that can happen very quickly with how cyclical our league is. It'll be like Canberra before the Raiders were established and Aussie rules was on par, if not the most popular sport in the nation's capital.

I suppose the fortunate thing for us as Suns fans is that there's not the same potential growth for Aussie rules in the Brisbane market and we don't really have to worry about that threat up the road.
 

Mr Bods

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That's really tough on our city if we lose the Titans but the broadcasters have long recognised the need for a second NRL team in Brisbane and (sadly) removing the Titans is the path of least resistance. The traditionalists down in Sydney would argue for teams like Cronulla to remain in the competition where as there would really only be a small group of supporters based on the GC that would try to keep the Titans alive and their voice is unlikely to be heard by the honchos down in Sydney. Out of sight, out of mind.

I personally think it would be ridiculous to remove/relocate the Titans ahead of a Sydney team. The Sydney market is completely over saturated and that's reflected in some of the crowds these teams pull on a weekly basis. They should either remove or relocate one of the Sydney teams and replace said team with a second Brisbane franchise and continue to plug away at the Gold Coast market. If they give up then all it will take for the town to become AFL mad is for the Suns to win on a regular basis and we all know that can happen very quickly with how cyclical our league is. It'll be like Canberra before the Raiders were established and Aussie rules was on par, if not the most popular sport in the nation's capital.

I suppose the fortunate thing for us as Suns fans is that there's not the same potential growth for Aussie rules in the Brisbane market and we don't really have to worry about that threat up the road.
Thanks heaps GC2015 that was an obituary piece which is something we don’t do when it’s about killing off the Suns.
There are tonnes of Titans supporters and committed owners and the demographics is identical to the Suns.

If you want to write off the Titans then you know what you are doing?? You are arguing to murder off the Suns too.

We will rise. Both of us.
 

GC2015

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Thanks heaps GC2015 that was an obituary piece which is something we don’t do when it’s about killing off the Suns.
There are tonnes of Titans supporters and committed owners and the demographics is identical to the Suns.

If you want to write off the Titans then you know what you are doing?? You are arguing to murder off the Suns too.
I was just trying to say it as I see it without being biased in any way. Like I said in my post, I believe they should keep the Titans and relocate one of the Sydney teams but I can also see a pathway in which they could choose to move the Titans instead. For sure there are lots of Titans supporters on the Gold Coast but the fan base is relatively small when you compare them to the traditional clubs in Sydney. For example, I would never claim we have more supporters than traditional clubs like North Melbourne or St Kilda. But I do think it's important to distinguish between the threat the Brisbane market serves in rugby league vs the one it serves in Aussie rules.

Not writing the Titans off mate. I'd like to see them thrive just like us. I want Gold Coast sports to be strong. I was just sharing my view on it at this current point in time.
 

SandyToes

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FTA is dieing a slow to medium death. They don’t get to call the shots and have no right to.
In a decade we will be watching all our sports on Kayo and Netflix or buying it directly off the sports own app.
It’s crazy
Channel 9/News killed the Seagulls after Super League and has wilfully surpressed AFL coverage on the Coast because of their NRL investment on 9 and in the Bulletin
Now they’re trying to kill off the Titans
No shame in the name of corporate profits


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Mr Bods

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It’s crazy
Channel 9/News killed the Seagulls after Super League and has wilfully surpressed AFL coverage on the Coast because of their NRL investment on 9 and in the Bulletin
Now they’re trying to kill off the Titans
No shame in the name of corporate profits


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Perfect summary
 

GC2015

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I don't recall any major broadcaster calling for the culling of The Suns
Power lies with the broadcasting rights
Pretty awful
If anything, Foxtel/Murdoch have said the opposite. A huge part of the last $2.5 billion broadcasting rights deal for the AFL was the fact that News Corp was going to use its resources to further promote our game in QLD and NSW "where there is obviously a growth opportunity" (source). They see us, Brisbane, GWS and Sydney as key assets when it comes to growing the game north of the Murray and want the AFL to push further into our markets as they know there is value in doing so. It's a very different situation for the NRL.
 

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Mr Bods

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If anything, Foxtel/Murdoch have said the opposite. A huge part of the last $2.5 billion broadcasting rights deal for the AFL was the fact that News Corp was going to use its resources to further promote our game in QLD and NSW "where there is obviously a growth opportunity" (source). They see us, Brisbane, GWS and Sydney as key assets when it comes to growing the game north of the Murray and want the AFL to push further into our markets as they know there is value in doing so. It's a very different situation for the NRL.
By your logic then Ch9 should ask for new teams in Perth and Adelaide rather than a 2nd Brisbane.
 

GC2015

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By your logic then Ch9 should ask for new teams in Perth and Adelaide rather than a 2nd Brisbane.
Firstly, it's not my logic. It's the desire of the AFL's biggest broadcasting partner - Murdoch/Foxtel/News Corp. I provided a source link above if you'd like to read about it.

Secondly, I explicitly said it's a very different situation in the NRL. Just as the Sydney market is oversaturated under the current NRL competition model, the Brisbane market is conversely undersaturated with professional rugby league content given the city's appetite for it and the population size. Close to 2.5 million people living in Brisbane and rugby league is by far the dominant code with the Broncos easily being the city's favourite team. While I think the overall interest in rugby league won't grow that much more with a second rugby league franchise in Brisbane, I believe you'll have more paying customers through the gates every week if there is an alternative to the Broncos. It would also create a genuine crosstown rivalry that the city of Brisbane can fully embrace. The AFL went through a very similar phase in the 90s when West Coast experienced a large amount of success and completely took over the city of Perth. The AFL recognised there was an opportunity to further capitalise on football's popularity out west and established the Fremantle Dockers. These days the Eagles and Dockers completely dominate Perth sporting headlines and no other sport/franchise even comes close.

As for rugby league's potential expansion into Perth or Adelaide... that's a long-term investment similar to the Suns and Giants. The NRL would have to know they are going to dump hundreds of millions into it and won't see anything back for at least a decade.

So you see, starting a second team in Brisbane vs a team in Perth/Adelaide are two very different prospects.
 

Mr Bods

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Firstly, it's not my logic. It's the desire of the AFL's biggest broadcasting partner - Murdoch/Foxtel/News Corp. I provided a source link above if you'd like to read about it.

Secondly, I explicitly said it's a very different situation in the NRL. Just as the Sydney market is oversaturated under the current NRL competition model, the Brisbane market is conversely undersaturated with professional rugby league content given the city's appetite for it and the population size. Close to 2.5 million people living in Brisbane and rugby league is by far the dominant code with the Broncos easily being the city's favourite team. While I think the overall interest in rugby league won't grow that much more with a second rugby league franchise in Brisbane, I believe you'll have more paying customers through the gates every week if there is an alternative to the Broncos. It would also create a genuine crosstown rivalry that the city of Brisbane can fully embrace. The AFL went through a very similar phase in the 90s when West Coast experienced a large amount of success and completely took over the city of Perth. The AFL recognised there was an opportunity to further capitalise on football's popularity out west and established the Fremantle Dockers. These days the Eagles and Dockers completely dominate Perth sporting headlines and no other sport/franchise even comes close.

As for rugby league's potential expansion into Perth or Adelaide... that's a long-term investment similar to the Suns and Giants. The NRL would have to know they are going to dump hundreds of millions into it and won't see anything back for at least a decade.

So you see, starting a second team in Brisbane vs a team in Perth/Adelaide are two very different prospects.
I change one thing only.
From “by your logic” to “by the same logic of the source you are using”.

From what I can see you are coming in here with “I don’t think the Titans should be killed but here are the reasons why”.

Are you a Titans Supporter out of interest ??
 

GC2015

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I change one thing only.
From “by your logic” to “by the same logic of the source you are using”.
You really have to think about what the broadcasters want here, Bodsy. Is there enormous potential for greater viewership in the Brisbane market (and possibly other parts of QLD) if a second Brisbane team existed? Logic would dictate the answer is yes. Would a Perth/Adelaide based team offer anything close to the same appeal for the broadcasters from a viewership standpoint? I'd hazard a guess and say no. At least not for a while.

A city's/market's appetite for a particular sport is always a huge factor when it comes to these decisions. I can vividly remember Gillon McLachlan stating the reason they chose to expand into the Gold Coast market instead of Tasmania had to do with the expected population growth and the belief that they only had a 40% share in that market, which meant there was huge potential for growth. Tasmania is smaller now and will be in the future, plus the AFL already has the majority market share in Tassie so there isn't as much incentive to expand down there as there was here.

Although some may argue we're in the same situation as the Titans, I don't think we are. The reason our club exists is to expand into a region in which we are not the dominant code. The same can't be said about the Titans.
 

Mr Bods

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You really have to think about what the broadcasters want here, Bodsy. Is there enormous potential for greater viewership in the Brisbane market (and possibly other parts of QLD) if a second Brisbane team existed? Logic would dictate the answer is yes. Would a Perth/Adelaide based team offer anything close to the same appeal for the broadcasters from a viewership standpoint? I'd hazard a guess and say no. At least not for a while.

A city's/market's appetite for a particular sport is always a huge factor when it comes to these decisions. I can vividly remember Gillon McLachlan stating the reason they chose to expand into the Gold Coast market instead of Tasmania had to do with the expected population growth and the belief that they only had a 40% share in that market, which meant there was huge potential for growth. Tasmania is smaller now and will be in the future, plus the AFL already has the majority market share in Tassie so there isn't as much incentive to expand down there as there was here.

Although some may argue we're in the same situation as the Titans, I don't think we are. The reason our club exists is to expand into a region in which we are not the dominant code. The same can't be said about the Titans.
People in Perth/Adelaide would be happy to have a local team to support and there’d be enough to make it worthwhile for everyone

Remember 10000 is an ok crowd in NRL
 

GC2015

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People in Perth/Adelaide would be happy to have a local team to support and there’d be enough to make it worthwhile for everyone

Remember 10000 is an ok crowd in NRL
Does the broadcaster care more about the crowd number or TV viewership?

Also, I'm fairly sure a second Brisbane team would get at least double that crowd on a fortnightly basis when playing at home.
 

Mr Bods

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Does the broadcaster care more about the crowd number or TV viewership?

Also, I'm fairly sure a second Brisbane team would get at least double that crowd on a fortnightly basis when playing at home.
Both. Adelaide and Perth people would watch their local team too on the TV.
A 2nd Brisbane team wouldn’t get Drongoes crowds for years too.

What NRL team do you support? I’ve asked twice now.

You are continuing to use this forum to say “Titans shouldn’t go but here are the reasons why”.

It’s as annoying as the Suns to Tasmania BS that has us right now up in arms with Fagan.

And your name has GC in it. Be nice if you would drop it now.
 

SandyToes

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I'd say GC is 50/50 due to the amount of Victorians, South Australians and Tasmanians that move there. Getting rid of the Suns/Titans would be a suicidal move by either code in the long run
There will be a million people living on the GC in a few years time
If people think the AFL or the NRL will forgo that for a hick club in Tasmania or Geelong for that matter they have no understanding of sports economics
 

Johnny Bananas

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People in Perth/Adelaide would be happy to have a local team to support and there’d be enough to make it worthwhile for everyone

Remember 10000 is an ok crowd in NRL
The question is whether the money is available. I agree with GC2015, Perth and Adelaide would be experiments at creating a new market for the code, similar to how Gold Coast and GWS are for the AFL. The difference is that the NRL are much poorer than the AFL, they simply don't have the deep pockets to fund a new market team for the foreseeable future. There's also no concrete offer of a bigger TV deal from their broadcaster for a 9th game. In fact Channel 9 want to axe a team to keep it to 8 games, as others have pointed out. And even though it costs less to run an NRL side in general, the travel cost is very significant since Perth is so far from the remainder of clubs.

I apologise in advance for this Bods, I know you're a Titans fan and don't appreciate anyone s**t talking your club, but I don't want the Titans to succeed. Not out of any animosity to them in particular or to the city, but because I want Queensland to become an AFL-dominant state. To do that we need a strong and popular Gold Coast Suns, and it'll be a lot easier to achieve popularity if the Suns aren't competing with a successful NRL team in the same city. I don't want the Broncos to succeed either, nor this planned second Brisbane NRL team.
 

Mr Bods

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The question is whether the money is available. I agree with GC2015, Perth and Adelaide would be experiments at creating a new market for the code, similar to how Gold Coast and GWS are for the AFL. The difference is that the NRL are much poorer than the AFL, they simply don't have the deep pockets to fund a new market team for the foreseeable future. There's also no concrete offer of a bigger TV deal from their broadcaster for a 9th game. In fact Channel 9 want to axe a team to keep it to 8 games, as others have pointed out. And even though it costs less to run an NRL side in general, the travel cost is very significant since Perth is so far from the remainder of clubs.

I apologise in advance for this Bods, I know you're a Titans fan and don't appreciate anyone s**t talking your club, but I don't want the Titans to succeed. Not out of any animosity to them in particular or to the city, but because I want Queensland to become an AFL-dominant state. To do that we need a strong and popular Gold Coast Suns, and it'll be a lot easier to achieve popularity if the Suns aren't competing with a successful NRL team in the same city.
To me that’s like saying I don’t know you but I want your pet dog to be killed.
 

Johnny Bananas

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To me that’s like saying I don’t know you but I want your pet dog to be killed.
If your dog was a serious threat to public safety, I wouldn't take any joy in it, but I'd want it to be put down for the sake of the community. It's nothing personal, I just have an agenda of the AFL succeeding, and in some cases that has to be at the NRLs expense.
 

Mr Bods

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If your dog was a serious threat to public safety, I wouldn't take any joy in it, but I'd want it to be put down for the sake of the community. It's nothing personal, I just have an agenda of the AFL succeeding, and in some cases that has to be at the NRLs expense.
FFS I’m having to do this so regularly now with Brisbane fans I’ll rephrase them
“To me that’s like saying I don’t know you but I want your pet dog who’s cute and lovely and no threat to safety to be killed.”

People love of footy community clubs is very deep. Having experienced it myself it’s a level below a loved one dieing, so it’s like a pet dieing in my experience and that as I’m sure many are aware cuts deep.
Not something I’d wish on people.

My argument with Tasmania for example has never been move this club or that club it’s been to expand again to 20 and have Tasmania and Canberra come in.

If I was you I’d be resisting a 2nd Brisbane NRL team for your own self-interest as it can’t be good for Bris Lions.

I’d appreciate people refraining please from Titans Death Talk please as it’s just like Suns Tassie Talk and you all know how that feels.
 

Johnny Bananas

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FFS I’m having to do this so regularly now with Brisbane fans I’ll rephrase them
“To me that’s like saying I don’t know you but I want your pet dog who’s cute and lovely and no threat to safety to be killed.”

People love of footy community clubs is very deep. Having experienced it myself it’s a level below a loved one dieing, so it’s like a pet dieing in my experience and that as I’m sure many are aware cuts deep.
Not something I’d wish on people.
Firstly, I never said I wanted the Titans to go out of existence imminently, just to not be successful. I'm not such an extremist that I want the whole NRL disbanded and all clubs killed, I just want its popularity to sink to the level of rugby union, where few people care about the club competition besides expats and rugby school old boys, and the only really big events are the Wallabies tests (or State of Origin in rugby league's case).

Secondly, the dog is no threat to your safety, just mine since I want the AFL to become the dominant code.
 

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