Toast Complete Champions for our Club

[Tedeski]

Comparing Buddy v Goodesy is like being asked which son do you love the most.

Easy.
One is a one club player who has two premierships & 2 Brownlow medals playing for the Swans after being drafted with pick 43.

The other is no doubt one of the greatest players of the modern era but he was expected to be having been drafted with pick 5.

Buddy was a complete champion for Hawks but he sits well below Goodesy as a Swan for me.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Easy.
One is a one club player who has two premierships & 2 Brownlow medals playing for the Swans after being drafted with pick 43.

The other is no doubt one of the greatest players of the modern era but he was expected to be having been drafted with pick 5.

Buddy was a complete champion for Hawks but he sits well below Goodesy as a Swan for me.

Ted who do you reckon has been our best Clubman and most under rated player?

 

[Wolfgang West]

Easy.
One is a one club player who has two premierships & 2 Brownlow medals playing for the Swans after being drafted with pick 43.

The other is no doubt one of the greatest players of the modern era but he was expected to be having been drafted with pick 5.

Buddy was a complete champion for Hawks but he sits well below Goodesy as a Swan for me.

Buddy kicks the winning goal from 60 after the siren in the GF next year and where will he sit then ? Any chance to talk him down. Franklin is miles ahead of Goodes for week in week out consistency.

 

[Tedeski]

Ted who do you reckon has been our best Clubman and most under rated player?

LRT!

 

[Tedeski]

Buddy kicks the winning goal from 60 after the siren in the GF next year and where will he sit then ? Any chance to talk him down. Franklin is miles ahead of Goodes for week in week out consistency.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the thread title Wolfy.
I'm in no way trying to sell Buddy short at all but taking into account the word "complete" in my opinion.
If the title was asking who is the most consist champion gor our club then yes it bevomes a different discussion but I wouldn't get too hung up on my opinion. Naturally it is open to how someone views that thread title.

I have Goodesy right up there in terms of all time greatest Swans ever.
Ahead of Buddy..

I always see Buddy as more successful as a Hawk.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the thread title Wolfy.
I'm in no way trying to sell Buddy short at all but taking into account the word "complete" in my opinion.
If the title was asking who is the most consist champion gor our club then yes it bevomes a different discussion but I wouldn't get too hung up on my opinion. Naturally it is open to how someone views that thread title.

I have Goodesy right up there in terms of all time greatest Swans ever.
Ahead of Buddy..

I always see Buddy as more successful as a Hawk.

Wording was my fault. People posting on this Board range from young to old folk and an antiquity, ie me. Was hoping all would have a go from their own perspective. No view is wrong.

Hopefully this Board goes for umpteen decades.

Some kids who do not yet post here will hopefully associate Mills as a champion who wore the 14, just as many associate the number with Kelly.

Each of our future eras will have wonderful champions of the Club and the game and they will be justly celebrated as well cult figures like LRT and Rampe and quintissential clubmen like Sinkers, Barry Round, Denis Carroll and Johnny Rantall.

 

[cisco]

Talking underrated what about Rod Carter. Every week played full back on champion full forwards and did the job with a minimum of fuss!!!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Talking underrated what about Rod Carter. Every week played full back on champion full forwards and did the job with a minimum of fuss!!!

Spot on. Tilt was a wonderful servant of both the Bloods and the Borough iirc

Sure Bedford will correct me if I am wrong about Port.

An enormous cult figure beloved by his teammates.

 

[ScottBo]

Quick question for those of you who lived through the long suffering decades of being a Swans supporter. I'd love to know if your parents or grand-parents spoke about any particular player/players the way you do about Skilton etc. I know it's difficult to compare eras, but I feel the lack of footage puts shade on players who really need to be in the conversation.

 

[SwansProudly]

Quick question for those of you who lived through the long suffering decades of being a Swans supporter. I'd love to know if your parents or grand-parents spoke about any particular player/players the way you do about Skilton etc. I know it's difficult to compare eras, but I feel the lack of footage puts shade on players who really need to be in the conversation.

the first name that comes to mind is Laurie Nash

Australian Football - Laurie Nash - Player Bio

australianfootball.com

(from father and 2 uncles - regulars at games - assume from 30-40's until late '60's)

 

[Tedeski]

Quick question for those of you who lived through the long suffering decades of being a Swans supporter. I'd love to know if your parents or grand-parents spoke about any particular player/players the way you do about Skilton etc. I know it's difficult to compare eras, but I feel the lack of footage puts shade on players who really need to be in the conversation.

The old fellow who took my brother & I to the footy as kids loved David McLeish, Stevie Hoffman & the boxing technique Stewie Gull used against thugs from the opposition.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Quick question for those of you who lived through the long suffering decades of being a Swans supporter. I'd love to know if your parents or grand-parents spoke about any particular player/players the way you do about Skilton etc. I know it's difficult to compare eras, but I feel the lack of footage puts shade on players who really need to be in the conversation.

Peter Bedford needs to be in the conversation.

 

[Wolfgang West]

The old fellow who took my brother & I to the footy as kids loved David McLeish, Stevie Hoffman & the boxing technique Stewie Gull used against thugs from the opposition.

Those were the days Ted. Fondest memories of the lake oval that period. Sitting in the old Red members stand with my old man ( well my mum mostly as the old man never came back from the bar underneath the stand at half time ) We were not great but gee we were tough. Those stirring 3rd qtr comebacks and the odd win when we could come home with a wet sail. A lot different to the club we now know but every bit as enjoyable. My only memory of Skilton was of what my Old man would tell me about how good he was and the times he would perch me up on his shoulders or Large Tin Beer cans just to get a glimpse of him weaving his magic. When I do see the odd highlight of him playing these days I get a bit of deja vu and I think to myself I seen that. As my Dad used to say to me " You seen Bobby Skilton play " Treasure the memory as I will seeing Bedford, Lockett, Kelly & Franklin. I often remind my kids how lucky they were to see Plugger and Kel and intend to take my three year Old Grand Son next year weather it be Melbourne or Sydney to see Buddy so he can tell his kids
" I saw Buddy Play " May the long line of Swans out and out Champions continue.

 

[Tedeski]

Those were the days Ted. Fondest memories of the lake oval that period. Sitting in the old Red members stand with my old man ( well my mum mostly as the old man never came back from the bar underneath the stand at half time ) We were not great but gee we were tough. Those stirring 3rd qtr comebacks and the odd win when we could come home with a wet sail. A lot different to the club we now know but every bit as enjoyable. My only memory of Skilton was of what my Old man would tell me about how good he was and the times he would perch me up on his shoulders or Large Tin Beer cans just to get a glimpse of him weaving his magic. When I do see the odd highlight of him playing these days I get a bit of deja vu and I think to myself I seen that. As my Dad used to say to me " You seen Bobby Skilton play " Treasure the memory as I will seeing Bedford, Lockett, Kelly & Franklin. I often remind my kids how lucky they were to see Plugger and Kel and intend to take my three year Old Grand Son next year weather it be Melbourne or Sydney to see Buddy so he can tell his kids
" I saw Buddy Play " May the long line of Swans out and out Champions continue.

Well said Wolfy. They were the days.

 

[The King!]

Buddy is a top 10 all time player contender

As is plugger

Goodes is an almighty superstar champion but he wouldn’t make a top 10 all time imo

All subjective


Best players in our colours I’ve seen are buddy Lockett and Greg Williams

Goodes is the number one swan as his entire body of work is with us and Paul Kelly

Healy underrated as his career ended early

 

[cisco]

David Ackerly, Colin Hounsell, Paul Hawke and Tony Morwood

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The old fellow who took my brother & I to the footy as kids loved David McLeish, Stevie Hoffman & the boxing technique Stewie Gull used against thugs from the opposition.

They were three toughies. I was at Windy Hill when Gull dropped Andrews.

Three other hard fellas were:

* Paul Harrison who played in the late 60s. Paul was so pale he made our jumper look grey. He was a tough CHB who made the colour drain from the faces of Oppo CHF's

* Kenny Boyd who was ump'd and Tribunal'd out of the game. He was Skilts protector for a period and did quite a bit of evening up. He was famously honest at the Tribunal which earned him heavier penalties. He could also play better than decent footy.

* Eric Sarich did not use his fists or elbows, just his body. Think of Byron Pickett. His bumps and tackles were fierce and resulted in a few collar bone breaks (inc Barassi, hehe who complained about him and Barry Pascoe) The Pascoes were dogs and Bob - Barry's older brother - kicked Eric one day. Sarich ran through the kick and continued playing while Bob was left writhing with a broken leg.

 

[Tedeski]

Buddy is a top 10 all time player contender

As is plugger

Goodes is an almighty superstar champion but he wouldn’t make a top 10 all time imo

All subjective


Best players in our colours I’ve seen are buddy Lockett and Greg Williams

Goodes is the number one swan as his entire body of work is with us and Paul Kelly

Healy underrated as his career ended early

Pure talent, absolutely they are.
"Complete champions for our club"?

Goodesy, the one & only.
Like I said, the two Brownlows & two p'ships are second to none in our club's history & he won his two Brownlows in two different positions.
I'll never see it again.

Goodesy for me is the "complete champion for our club".
Not more talented, That's a different discussion, but he has achieved the ultimate both as an individual & as a team mate.
For me, that's as complete a player can be for the club.

 

[Bloods_sucker]

Thanks for creating this thread, I now feel younger. Apologies as I can only do my take from early 1980s, but I'll also ask my Dad for some insights.

1.1 Paul Kelly - didn't realise until I just checked - he's recorded as 179cm tall, seemed taller. Absolute collossal player with a huge heart. Powerful. Leader by actions. Humble. Not the most polished sometimes, but seemed to be capable of super-human feats on the football field. One memory sticks in my mind - it was a play was against the Weagles at the WACA when he beat 3 or 4 opponents single handedly, resulting in a goal for O'loughlin. Also held in high esteem by opposition supporters, which is a rare thing.

1.2 Adam Goodes - wish I had seen him play more live. First saw him by chance in the under 18s on grand final day. He really stood out then as being a unique talent. Had a rocky start playing in the ruck, but went on to become a great of the game. The complete player who could play anywhere. One of my favourite memories is the last quarter clutch goal in 2012 grand final, on one leg.

1.3. I want to say Mark Bayes, David Murphy or Michael O'loughlin

Michael O'loughlin

Age

47

Ht

189cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.9

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.2

5star

. I'll go for Greg Williams to be different - I don't love the Diesel, probably not alone there, especially as he played for Carlton, but still scratch my head about how good he was for someone who was supposedly too fat and two slow. Had the ball on a string. Would easily have 3 brownlows if he didn't have a big mouth, got down and dirty a bit too much. Incredible football brain, vision and awareness. Makes a mockery of todays draft combine.

2. Hard one to answer, let's say Dennis Carroll. All class, was also a beautiful kick.

3. Nick Smith. Rod Carter. Stephen Wright. Craig Bolton

Craig Bolton

Age

43

Ht

189cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.9

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

1.2

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.4

3star

. No fuss, super reliable, consistent and rarely beaten.

4. Funniest moment - wish I could find it on youtube - 1986 v Carlton, SCG: Tom Alvin breaks the lines with the ball in hand, Tony Morwood in pursuit, grabs Tom Alvin by the hair, pulls him down and is awarded holding the ball.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Ok mate. Here's my attempt...

3 champions I've watched:

1. Paul Kelly - He is the reason I support the bloods... That fateful late afternoon, footy on the TV, I see the Pies (I think) belting us in a miserable wet muddy contest... the Swans players not interested, not chasing, not tackling... except one. Kels was throwing himself into packs, going back with the flight & standing in front of blokes double his size without a backwards step. Frantic. Courageous. Fighting. Never giving in. He won my lifelong support that day & he will always be my favourite player because of it.

2. Adam Goodes - Probably the most unique & amazing of the players I've ever seen play the game. He could turn a game on it's end and completely dominate with deft touches, hard running, speed, agility, strength & skill. One of the most influential I've seen. When he turned it on WE were seemingly unstoppable! More-so than his skill on the footy field is the man he has become off it. Him & MickeyO are changing lives & bringing better futures to kids who have deserved better from society but not had opportunity. Goodesy is a champion on & off the field. A footy player I loved & a man I respect.

3. TBA - I need to have a think about this & come back to it. It's too hard (& I have a baby I need to go cuddle).

Best Clubman - Brett Kirk

This one is an easy one! Kirky bled red & white more than any player I can think of. While he was playing he was a favourite of mine. His commitment, bravery & determination was second to none. There was no playing for frees or bending at the knees for Kirky. He went in bloody hard & focused. Sacrificing his body for the team like most would not. He pulled every bit of talent & skill from himself & lifted those around him. He didn't focus on the stats & things he could do to make him look better. He focused on the things the team needed. The 1%ers, hard ball gets, blocks, taking the impact of an opponent, pressuring, backing up, scrapping at the bottom of packs & boy could he tackle!! He was always communicating & leading (ask Nick Davis!). Bloods culture ran through him. He personified it. He lived it. And it showed on the field. That cultural shift & all the success that followed because of it was driven & lead by guys like Kirky. Guys that embraced it & lead from the front. If you want to know what a clubman looks like, look at Kirky in his last game. Blood. Emotion. Passion. Giving absolutely everything until the very last siren.

Most under rated player - Sam Reid

Constantly bagged for being injured or not producing goals/marks/possessions... Despite him playing a good amount of career games (to this point) IMO & his role being so flexible he is shifting between FF, HB, CHF, Ruck, FB, FP, BP... The bloke is a great mark, a fair kick & has a crack. He is a leader on the field (just watch him & don't let your preconcieved bias cloud your judgement). Clearly does everything asked of him, important to our structural flexibility & a seemingly good fella... Like with the Reg Grundy hate early on, I just don't get it. A player who has committed to our club over such an extended period, who seems to try hard & sacrifice individual glory for the team is someone I'd think deserves much more respect than he often seems to be afforded.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Ok mate. Here's my attempt...

3 champions I've watched:

1. Paul Kelly - He is the reason I support the bloods... That fateful late afternoon, footy on the TV, I see the Pies (I think) belting us in a miserable wet muddy contest... the Swans players not interested, not chasing, not tackling... except one. Kels was throwing himself into packs, going back with the flight & standing in front of blokes double his size without a backwards step. Frantic. Courageous. Fighting. Never giving in. He won my lifelong support that day & he will always be my favourite player because of it.

2. Adam Goodes - Probably the most unique & amazing of the players I've ever seen play the game. He could turn a game on it's end and completely dominate with deft touches, hard running, speed, agility, strength & skill. One of the most influential I've seen. When he turned it on WE were seemingly unstoppable! More-so than his skill on the footy field is the man he has become off it. Him & MickeyO are changing lives & bringing better futures to kids who have deserved better from society but not had opportunity. Goodesy is a champion on & off the field. A footy player I loved & a man I respect.

3. TBA - I need to have a think about this & come back to it. It's too hard (& I have a baby I need to go cuddle).

Best Clubman - Brett Kirk

This one is an easy one! Kirky bled red & white more than any player I can think of. While he was playing he was a favourite of mine. His commitment, bravery & determination was second to none. There was no playing for frees or bending at the knees for Kirky. He went in bloody hard & focused. Sacrificing his body for the team like most would not. He pulled every bit of talent & skill from himself & lifted those around him. He didn't focus on the stats & things he could do to make him look better. He focused on the things the team needed. The 1%ers, hard ball gets, blocks, taking the impact of an opponent, pressuring, backing up, scrapping at the bottom of packs & boy could he tackle!! He was always communicating & leading (ask Nick Davis!). Bloods culture ran through him. He personified it. He lived it. And it showed on the field. That cultural shift & all the success that followed because of it was driven & lead by guys like Kirky. Guys that embraced it & lead from the front. If you want to know what a clubman looks like, look at Kirky in his last game. Blood. Emotion. Passion. Giving absolutely everything until the very last siren.

Most under rated player - Sam Reid

Constantly bagged for being injured or not producing goals/marks/possessions... Despite him playing a good amount of career games (to this point) IMO & his role being so flexible he is shifting between FF, HB, CHF, Ruck, FB, FP, BP... The bloke is a great mark, a fair kick & has a crack. He is a leader on the field (just watch him & don't let your preconcieved bias cloud your judgement). Clearly does everything asked of him, important to our structural flexibility & a seemingly good fella... Like with the Reg Grundy hate early on, I just don't get it. A player who has committed to our club over such an extended period, who seems to try hard & sacrifice individual glory for the team is someone I'd think deserves much more respect than he often seems to be afforded.

kelly had the same effect on me ... i really started to pay attention when they were on that long, awful losing streak, and out of that kelly was the foundation of that 1996 grand final team and, to me still, the foundation of the club we've become ...
he was as good as any player, utterly selfless and humble, the ethos of the swans ... i'm sure it was because of the standard of bloke kelly was that the 'no dickhead' concept evolved
of course, barassi and plugger and others had huge influence in different ways, but to me it started with kelly ... until then, there was still the lingering 'south melbourne' club, and that's meant with no disrespect to the victorian history of the swans, but kelly was where the sydney swans really started, going through those dismal, dark years and coming out the other side with him as leader and talisman

personal favourite second is lrt ... the greatest of cult figures who became a genuine club champion (and 2005 norm smith medallist!!!!!!!!!!!!)

goodesy next ... so much been said and discussed about goodesy ... but i'd argue one big thing about him is that those who claim to have a genuine problem with him are revealing themselves to be genuine d1ckheads

i'm not sure i'd say he's underrated but tony lockett doesn't get the credit he's due beyond just the on-field stuff ... always a champion footballer, he came to sydney probably under a cloud character/temperament-wise and turned himself into the kind of man who'd become close mates with kelly
lockett was a huge part of sydney's evolution at the end of the 90s

of course, i had other favourites of the likes kirk, maxfield, jude bolton, craig bolton (as noted), tadhg kennelly, blokes like daryn cresswell, dale lewis, micky o'loughlin, ryan o'keefe ... jason ball, nick davis, adam schneider, amon buchanan and of course leo barry ... there have been so many names worth remembering

i guess kirk gets clubman, although you could argue kelly deserves that too, but then as i think i was trying to say, kelly transcends such a title

and with lockett, i'd argue another very under-rated sydney great was paul williams

 

[The King!]

Pure talent, absolutely they are.
"Complete champions for our club"?

Goodesy, the one & only.
Like I said, the two Brownlows & two p'ships are second to none in our club's history & he won his two Brownlows in two different positions.
I'll never see it again.

Goodesy for me is the "complete champion for our club".
Not more talented, That's a different discussion, but he has achieved the ultimate both as an individual & as a team mate.
For me, that's as complete a player can be for the club.

agree, didnt summarise that well

goodes is the greatest swans absolutely

 

[Tedeski]

agree, didnt summarise that well

goodes is the greatest swans absolutely

I actually think we are all right on this one. It just depends how each of us have initially interpreted the thread title.

 

[MF]

Wade Chapman

I wonder what he could have achieved had he been born with the trait of self-preservation.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I wonder what he could have achieved had he been born with the trait of self-preservation.

Aye. Too bloody brave for his own good. Chapman had just a heap of skills and footy IQ.

Another similar player was Brett Scott who played for us in dark times. Injury cut short his career. Filled in as coach in another dark time and hope he has not been forgotten.