Concussion Rule

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

Really need to quote the entire post for that?

I think so. Since every sentence that I quoted in the OP is offering your amateur opinion and calling into question the job that the trained professionals on the field did in handling Davis. My response was to your post in its entirity, not one or two points. Man With No Name is on the money. A hit to the head does not automatically = concussion.

I did truncate your quote this time though.

 

[Gizza]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

People are aware it's possible to be dazed without suffering concussion, yes?

Concussion is a medical term. It's not "I hit my head on a pillow, I think I was concussed for a few seconds but I'm better now". There are symptoms for concussion. And I have a hunch that the DOCTOR out there might've known what he was doing.

Exactly. That's the problem with the rule though, because if a player goes off after that kind of injury the new rule comes in to effect and they can't come back on the field, regardless of whether they actually did suffer a concussion. So now we have players in a bad state trying to stay on the field so they don't get done by the concussion rule.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

Pete Larkins was saying on friday night on MMM that the medical body was worried about that. They were pushing the AFL for 3 interchanges and 2 subs so players would be less likely to try and lie about not having concussion.

 

[Brilliant]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

People are aware it's possible to be dazed without suffering concussion, yes?

Concussion is a medical term. It's not "I hit my head on a pillow, I think I was concussed for a few seconds but I'm better now". There are symptoms for concussion. And I have a hunch that the DOCTOR out there might've known what he was doing.

What about "I got kneed in the face so hard I took me about a minute to get up. Then I went to hospital"? I know I'm not a Doctor but I would've thought there was some degree of concussion with J.Brown tonight. And M.Clark. Both stayed on.

Both went off because of the blood rule, in theory J.Brown could of came back on if he wasn't in hospital.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

What about "I got kneed in the face so hard I took me about a minute to get up. Then I went to hospital"? I know I'm not a Doctor but I would've thought there was some degree of concussion with J.Brown tonight. And M.Clark. Both stayed on.

Both went off because of the blood rule, in theory J.Brown could of came back on if he wasn't in hospital.

well yes, i guess he could have

 

[WoGiTaLiA]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

It's an awful rule, good intentions but as with most AFL rule changes of late, absolutely woeful implementation.

You are basically forcing players to play through concussion like symptoms. If you leave the field with them you are done, 99% of players don't want to go to the bench ever try telling them if you go off to get a medical check up you are done...

You need to have if they fail a concussion test they can't go back on until they have passed it(as it is in the NFL where the vast majority of research on the topic comes from) not have it if you leave with concussion symptoms you are done, regardless.

This isn't an area where you want to mess with the players health and this reckless rule change does just that, see Mitch Clark coming off and saying he was just bleeding and then making a mockery of the rule by running back out. He couldn't have got up on a 10 count in a boxing ring, nevermind pass a concussion test. Davis the same but just says he has a sore neck so he can play on, when both should have been getting checked and either ok to return or not.

Not only the players but you are also destroying the position of the club doctors who now are in a position where they can't accurately assess their players because the players aren't going to give an honest answer.

It is good intention by the AFL with awful execution, like just about every rule change they've made under Vlad.

 

[The Passenger]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

Exactly. The only thing this rule will accomplish is less players being diagnosed with concussion.

bingo.

hastily pushed in rule without thinking through.

football players just won't leave the ground to get proper diagnosis anymore, and they'll be staying on the field during the real danger period which is the first couple of minutes.

 

[The Passenger]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

it would also be niave of people to think that the doctor's aren't going to be pressured into clearing players to stay on the field. concussion is still a pretty grey area and professional atheltes will still push things to the absolute extreme.

 

[GordonGecko]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

I think it's a great rule.

Boxers dont get a second crack when they are knocked out.

Bruising to the brain isnt really something to gamble on, applaud the AFL for their stance on this one.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Re: The New Concussion rule

like Goddards errant knees

That's an interesting point. I wonder how many Terry Daniher style hitmen will run out on GF day this year. Give an opponent a mild concussion, and he won't be allowed back on the ground. Do that a couple of times, and it gives your side a distinct advantage.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

bingo.

hastily pushed in rule without thinking through.

football players just won't leave the ground to get proper diagnosis anymore, and they'll be staying on the field during the real danger period which is the first couple of minutes.

This is a ridiculous statement, you think the AFL would act on something as serious as concussion on a whim? You think they came up with this rule out of no where last Sunday?

Also, if a player is clearly thinking through the situation and making a deliberate decision based on his potential contribution to the game after receiving a knock to the head, there's every chance he isn't concussed.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

it would also be niave of people to think that the doctor's aren't going to be pressured into clearing players to stay on the field. concussion is still a pretty grey area and professional atheltes will still push things to the absolute extreme.

Good way for a club doctor to jeopardise their professional career.

 

[gardiner stand]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

Did anyone see Mitch Clark from the Lions tonight? He copped an accidental elbow to the head and had blood pissing out everywhere. He could not stand up and was staggering around with an obvious concussion. Even Grover from Freo had to hold him up because he was falling on him. Yet 5 mins later he came running back on the field with a bandage on his head. WTF

good observation,and when clark was running off he grabbed the doctors arm to hold him up. if thats not concussion i dont know what is.waite ran off unassisted and didnt look half as groggy as clark,it would be naive to think that the dr wasnt influenced by the state of the game

 

[ManWithNoName]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

good observation,and when clark was running off he grabbed the doctors arm to hold him up. if thats not concussion i dont know what is.waite ran off unassisted and didnt look half as groggy as clark,it would be naive to think that the dr wasnt influenced by the state of the game

You seriously think a doctor would say "Well he's got concussion, but it's a close game, so the hell with his long term wellbeing" Seriously?

The doctors have been pushing for this rule for years.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

hmm, I need to clarify something.

I believe that the (proper/full) concussion test is done off the ground in the rooms?

Is the new law stating if a player goes off with "suspected" concussion he can't return, or merely if he fails the proper test?

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

hmm, I need to clarify something.

I believe that the (proper/full) concussion test is done off the ground in the rooms?

Is the new law stating if a player goes off with "suspected" concussion he can't return, or merely if he fails the proper test?

I'd be amazed if it were 'suspected concussion'.

 

[woopedazz]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

A lot of people in here don't think he was concussed. I am a med student, and I also know a few doctors who spoke with crows staff after the game. He was completely out of it; absolutely 100% concussed.

What wasn't shown on TV was him wandering off the field at some point in the 4th without telling anyone and practically falling over the line in dizzy confusion and Craigy having to put someone on the ground who was in the middle of an episode of cramping. When Johncock, Knighta and co. were cramping up Davis was on the bench trying to figure out where the hell he was and ended up going down to the rooms for a short stint in the 4th as well (different reports say he was vomiting/just nauseous).

The change to the concussion rule in theory is great. When someone gets knocked out they really should NOT be putting their body on the line 30-40 minutes later when they come back on. However, by not allowing them to even have the 30-40minute respite you are going to see a load of really terrible mistakes concerning player welfare. Davis and the other K.O.s of Round One are no where near the worst we will see.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

I'd be amazed if it were 'suspected concussion'.

That's what I thought, which is why I couldn't understand the efforts to keep the player on the ground (and then take him off 30 seconds later).

 

[The Passenger]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

This is a ridiculous statement, you think the AFL would act on something as serious as concussion on a whim? You think they came up with this rule out of no where last Sunday?

It seems that way at times. this won't do anything to help negate the effects of concussion. as i said, and many others have, it will exasperate them because concussed won't leave the ground for fear of not being able to come back. this will be particularly true if a team has already used it's substitute.

Also, if a player is clearly thinking through the situation and making a deliberate decision based on his potential contribution to the game after receiving a knock to the head, there's every chance he isn't concussed.

maybe he isn't concussed. but there were will be plenty of players on auto pilot who will be able to get through those initial dealings with med staff but will still be on the field for those few minutes after the blow which are generally the most dazing times.... in past this is when they'd have gone off and had a breather... but not they will want to be as far from med staff as possible and the best place for that is out in the middle.

there are several levels of concussion and this is just throwing a blanket over all of them.

Good way for a club doctor to jeopardise their professional career.

possibly. but they all have to make many line-ball calls, and will often give the player the all-clear... . when they are now in a situation of ruling a guy out for the rest of the match then they will be feeling that pressure that little bit more.

and if they're continually ruling guys who are 50-50 as concussed they may find themselves on the outer with clubs too.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

It seems that way at times. this won't do anything to help negate the effects of concussion. as i said, and many others have, it will exasperate them because concussed won't leave the ground for fear of not being able to come back. this will be particularly true if a team has already used it's substitute.

maybe he isn't concussed. but there were will be plenty of players on auto pilot who will be able to get through those initial dealings with med staff but will still be on the field for those few minutes after the blow which are generally the most dazing times.... in past this is when they'd have gone off and had a breather... but not they will want to be as far from med staff as possible and the best place for that is out in the middle.

there are several levels of concussion and this is just throwing a blanket over all of them.

Okay, which level of concussion is the safe one? And if a player is on auto-pilot, how is he still clued in enough to avoid the medical staff? If he goes off for a breather and is concussed, is it best he comes back on?

 

[The Passenger]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

there are concussions that only last for a handful of minutes. these guys are well fine after 30-45 minutes.

and do you seriously not believe concussed players can go on auto pilot?? that seriously staggers me. of course there are guys like Jordan Lewis Rd 3 2010, Joel Selwood two nights ago who are just complete gone. doesn't take a doctor to work that out.... but just because you're clued in enough to beat the doc in a 10 second examination doesn't mean you're not ****ed about.

the best course of examination is to get a guy off the field and do the proper testing. this will happen less in the 50-50 cases now. and guys will be on the field during those initial minutes of concussion which is the absolute worst place for them to be.

at varying levels of concussion you've still got some sort of senses about you.

you're going off the assumption that we live in a perfect world where the exact diagnosis can take place instantly. but it's a very vague area.

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

I accept players can possibly go into 'auto-pilot', i just doubt that if they did they'd be alert enough to be able to figure out a way around the concussion rule, ie act in a different way than they otherwise would. Or that it would be enough to get around the medical staff.

 

[The Passenger]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

this is where it's got probelmatic because you're not doing a proper examination out on the field. the doc isn't going to follow him everywhere. he's just gonna go in, take a quick look. as said with the player knowing he's off for the game, he's not gonna wanna take the punt and go to the sidelines where he'll have an army of medical personnel being able to check his every movement and he won't be able to go anywhere to get away from them.

under old rules he's not going to mind this because the consequences aren't so bad. but under new rules the risk of missing the rest of the game is high.

admittedly so far it hasn't caused any major problems, although the phil davis incident last night was very tough and go. he copped it pretty heavily.

we can all see that they're trying to look after the players but what they haven't thought through is that it's the players who are least likely to look after themselves. as professionals they've accepted hits as part of their lifestyle and the majority are well prepared to go above the call of duty.

as said, in a perfect world a player would think "ooo i've copped a pretty bad knock. i better go sit down and not worry about the game"... but they don't think that way. they do everything in their power to win footy matches. most of them would play through a broken arm if they could.

what perhaps would've been a better option would be to fine clubs and the doctors who bring back guys on the field who are clearly unfit...

i dunno, there is no cut and dry answer, but i really don't like the possibilities that this new rule opens up.

we'll see how it pans out.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

So do we have a concussion rule in place now? I thought we did, in that the concussed player had to have a week's rest?

I ask mainly because I see Waite is available, as is Selwood (though Selwood is listed as tbc also)

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Re: Concussion rule = Fail

did either of them go off for concussion though?

I thought Selwood went off for the 'blood rule', Davis for a 'sore neck', and Waite for a 'winded'.