Connors

[beaver fever]

Re: Conners

These 30+ year olds aren't exactly hacks though. Johnson is probably the only one who could find it hard to keep his spot. I know a lot of Richmond fans don't like Bowden, but he is a class act and should play most games in '09.

The positive side of having these 30+ year olds is that is gives the younger players, like Connors competition for spots in the 22, which I am sure you agree is good for the club.

No they are not hacks, the sad thing is that 4/10 of the b&f this year were from that group. Regardless they will not be around for much longer.

I don't see that as a positive at all. I don't see it as competition, because once they have taken the games away from players like Connors over the next 1-2 years, they will retire. That leaves players like Connors with hardly any AFL experience and what then? That is why Cousins will not be good for the long-term future of the club. It is purely a short-term measure.

 

[sante]

Re: Conners

If Connors etc play good football at Coburg, then they will get rewarded and play seniors. It has nothing to do with us having 30 year olds on our list and playing good football. There are 22 who play each week, only 5 or maybe 6 are 30+. The other 16/17 can be dropped to you know.

 

[beaver fever]

Re: Conners

That is the short-term way to look at it. Long-term it is not a good situation. Ideally you wouldn't have 6 31+ year olds in a side. Cousins wouldn't be the only player holding others back.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Conners

No, although it was obvious someone would draw that conclusion. The difference is that Geelong have mid-aged players battling it out for spots, while richmond could potentially have 6 31+ year olds taking spots.

dude you have to understand one thing about the modern game, depth is imperative to success. You cant rely on a base 22 being there week in week out, in a game that has become as fast as our game has become.
The problem that the tigers have had throughout the dark days is that our second tier is nowhere near our top tier. i.e. when rotations are made, we go from competitive to non competitive and thats where we cop it.
The more the merrier, and Ben adds to our firepower. Be it in an attacking sense, be it in a "must be watched and minded, sense, Ben is a plus to us.
You continue to suggest that youngsters will suffer with his introduction to the team, but you tend to forget that there are others, e.g Tuck to name 1 that will not be able to rest on his laurels of a decent 2008 season, and have to keep up the pace, to hold his spot, because players like Connors, Eddo &U even Coggs are hot on his heels. That competition for spots, tends to lead to sustained pressure on the opposition from players wanting in on the action. Its sink or swim, for once we might be in the situation that we havent been if for 2 decades where we get to the end of the 2009 season and we too can have a Thomson type, that wanted to be traded because of lack of opportunities.

 

[beaver fever]

I understand the importance of depth, sheesh. I am not doubting Cousins would make us a better side, but only short-term ffs. Connors would have competition for spots without Cousins on the list. Bad argument to suggest otherwise. So a real non-argument for the pro-Cousins cause.

 

[CoggaRules]

I understand the importance of depth, sheesh. I am not doubting Cousins would make us a better side, but only short-term ffs. Connors would have competition for spots without Cousins on the list. Bad argument to suggest otherwise. So a real non-argument for the pro-Cousins cause.

its not just about competition dude, its about what the level of competition is.
You suggest short term, but you dont suggest what the term is.

 

[beaver fever]

For however long Cousins can play decent football. Pretty obvious, but anyone's guess. I'd say 2 years.

 

[SDM08]

Re: Conners

That is the short-term way to look at it. Long-term it is not a good situation. Ideally you wouldn't have 6 31+ year olds in a side. Cousins wouldn't be the only player holding others back.

I'm along with your line of thinking, even Carl-stink-tank don't have any 30+ in their B&F top 10. I'd certainly like for the younger players to "push" out the 30+ players.

 

[sante]

Re: Conners

I'm along with your line of thinking, even Carl-stink-tank don't have any 30+ in their B&F top 10. I'd certainly like for the younger players to "push" out the 30+ players.

They don't have any on their list, thats why.

Who won our B&F and how old is he?

 

[CoggaRules]

For however long Cousins can play decent football. Pretty obvious, but anyone's guess. I'd say 2 years.

2 years is perfect for what we are gunning for. You see, another or our problems has been, that we have forever had to introduce youngsters to the big time to early and moreso have had to keep them in the seniors for longer than we would ideally like.
The plan is to play finals next year. You cant sustain a run at the finals, with a young squad. They invariably get tired by seasons end and moreso they are affected in subsequent seasons, by overtaxing their young bodies. OP and various other debilitating injuries start gaining their foothold.

 

[beaver fever]

It still won't be enough to win the premiership.

 

[Wally Matera]

Re: Conners

What crap, since when has Daniel Connors been gifted games?

As the opening post states... round 20, when finals were dead and buried.

Where was he earlier in the year?

 

[beaver fever]

Re: Conners

As the opening post states... round 20, when finals were dead and buried.

Where was he earlier in the year?

He didn't have a pre-season, so it took him a while to get into full fitness. He played well at Coburg and was rewarded.

 

[CoggaRules]

It still won't be enough to win the premiership.

you are now pissing in the wind dude. The statement you made means JS. Its purely one that might be right or wrong. You nor I know shit, we can all make bold statements, that if they come off makes us feel like we are experts, but if they dont come off, make us look like BF footy posters.

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Conners

One player that will miss AFL games if Cousins gets drafted.

that would be great -as it means we have someone performing much better than him in the side.

spots on in AFL senior side are meant to be hard

 

[beaver fever]

Cogga piss off, the list is not good enough, end of story. You can't debate this.

 

[beaver fever]

Re: Conners

that would be great -as it means we have someone performing much better than him in the side.

spots on in AFL senior side are meant to be hard

If you are going to come into a discussion you weren't apart of, perhaps read the whole discussion so I don't have to repeat myself.

 

[SDM08]

Re: Conners

They don't have any on their list, thats why.

Who won our B&F and how old is he?

Thats a rhetorical question. He was also the No 1 Draft pick, and you expect the no 1 draft pick to be in the top 10 within a few years, but I guess most of us would have expected our No 4 draft pick in that year to be in our top 10 as well, and possibly our Pick 16.

I'd expect that next year, it'll only be 2 IMO in the 30+ group. Another 4 or so in the 24 - 28 range (Tuck and Newman, plus 2 others), and another 4 or so in sub 24 range (Lids, Cotchin and Foley, plus one more that'll stand up)

 

[Wally Matera]

Re: Conners

He didn't have a pre-season, so it took him a while to get into full fitness. He played well at Coburg and was rewarded.

Thats bullshit and you know it. Cotchin didnt have a pre-season either... Connors is also a couple of years older. Just face it... if he's not up to lifting a 17 yo out of the side, he doesnt own a spot.

I dont get your argument regardless anyway... so instead of recruiting a Klemke that may never ever play a game, we get a gun premiership-brownlow medalist that does and hopefully turns his magic on for 2 years.

Now let me see... your argument for not recruiting Cousins is becoming stronger by the minute. Hey, hang on a second, lets not recruit anyone... that way Connors can play as much as wants and can develop as much as he wants.

 

[Deledio2Conca]

Re: Conners

I concur, he barely gets picked as it is.

Nonsense.

He had no pre-season last year due to a foot problem, and therefore struggled to ever get his fitness up which was always lacking.

Of course the match committee couldn't play him if he wasn't up to scratch fitness-wise.

 

[CoggaRules]

Cogga piss off, the list is not good enough, end of story. You can't debate this.

i will go out on a limb here beave and say this. Our midfield is good enough, especially with the introduction of a Ben cousins to it. This means that our rotations dont harm its effectiveness. i.e. sustained pressure on the opposition midfield breaks them down. again i.e. just like we have been shown to do in the past.
OUr backline is on the verge of making the grade in the big time. It has played together for the last 2 years and any additions to it now will be purely to strengthen any weaknesses it has in it.
Our FL is kind of ok, and this is where we have to up the ante. If and i say if, the list unearths a Cogga type, by that i mean, a player who emerges over a pre-season and takes his game to the optimum heights then we are a definite chance at big time finals and even go as far as to say the GF.
we have a player in our midst that is going to re-write the record books dude. I for one havent ever seen a youngster do what he did without any pre-season, at his age. He is a freak. Cousins will add to us protecting him from heavy tags and moreso tags from players who can tag. By that i mean he will be getting the Hyde types tagging him, instead of the Lings. because Ling will have to go to Cousins.
IMO, and have said it and will say it again, TW had the hand brake on last year for some reason. He was losing games at the selection table. Blind freddy could see the selections were WTF types. No one can tell me that TW couldnt.

 

[beaver fever]

Re: Conners

Thats bullshit and you know it. Cotchin didnt have a pre-season either... Connors is also a couple of years older. Just face it... if he's not up to lifting a 17 yo out of the side, he doesnt own a spot.

Come on mate, Cotchin is in a league of his own. He is already in our top 10.

I dont get your argument regardless anyway... so instead of recruiting a Klemke that may never ever play a game, we get a gun premiership-brownlow medalist that does and hopefully turns his magic on for 2 years.

Now let me see... your argument for not recruiting Cousins is becoming stronger by the minute. Hey, hang on a second, lets not recruit anyone... that way Connors can play as much as wants and can develop as much as he wants.

I hate repeating myself, but my arguement is this:
- Collingwood and St.Kilda heavily investigated Cousins over a long period of time, and in the end they decided nay. To me that says they aren't convinced he is over his drug addiction, and it may blow up in the clubs face.
- Cousins will add to an already big problem we have, which is having far too many players over the age of 30.
- Cousins will slot straight into the 22, and this will not help fringe types to show whether they are up to it.
- Cousins is a short-term fix, and would be useful to a side pushing for a premiership. Our club is very much not.
- What happens in 2-3 years time when we lose 6 of our best players? A big hole of experience will simply be gone, and the opportunity to instill experience into our younger players will be lost.

 

[beaver fever]

Cogga. 9th, 16th, 9th is not premiership form. Deluded mate, deluded. It is dangerous to the long-term future of our club to think we are better than we really are. Don't forget the lessons of 1995 and 2001.

 

[THE_GUN]

there was a distinct possibility that we could of finished top 4 last year.

3 games.

stkilda..........lost just
dogs.............drew due to inexperience
carlton..........lost in the last quater

if we had cousins playing in the midfield we could of possibly won all 3 games.


when you finish top 4 anything is possible, we did beat haws which won the flag after all.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: Conners

Come on mate, Cotchin is in a league of his own. He is already in our top 10.


I hate repeating myself, but my arguement is this:
- Collingwood and St.Kilda heavily investigated Cousins over a long period of time, and in the end they decided nay. To me that says they aren't convinced he is over his drug addiction, and it may blow up in the clubs face.
- Cousins will add to an already big problem we have, which is having far too many players over the age of 30.
- Cousins will slot straight into the 22, and this will not help fringe types to show whether they are up to it.
- Cousins is a short-term fix, and would be useful to a side pushing for a premiership. Our club is very much not.
- What happens in 2-3 years time when we lose 6 of our best players? A big hole of experience will simply be gone, and the opportunity to instill experience into our younger players will be lost.

but beave you are talking about 1 spot, 1 youngster. Your argument is flawed to the max. You are basing your argument on the dark years under the DUD, who introduced a dozen short term fixes that put a dozen youngsters on the outer.