Roast Conservative, Stubborn or an Idiot? Or all the above?

[im_a_lazy_sod]

We are playing with a relatively unchanged lineup from 2022, where we were two bad results from Calrton away from finishing top 2

I don't think much needs changing unless we show we haven't/aren't improving and have gone backwards. We were a superb spoil away from losing round 1 last year and then lost round 2 to checks last years fixture yep, you guessed it - St. Kilda

Let's wait until round 5/6 before we start panicking about the selection comittee or who is playing and who isn't.

 

[King Huskii]

We are playing with a relatively unchanged lineup from 2022, where we were two bad results from Calrton away from finishing top 2

I don't think much needs changing unless we show we haven't/aren't improving and have gone backwards. We were a superb spoil away from losing round 1 last year and then lost round 2 to checks last years fixture yep, you guessed it - St. Kilda

Let's wait until round 5/6 before we start panicking about the selection comittee or who is playing and who isn't.

I don't get this

Hughes is 28. He's peaked and he's not best 22, while younger players who will be far better are starved of opportunities.

Just play them.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

I don't get this

Hughes is 28. He's peaked and he's not best 22, while younger players who will be far better are starved of opportunities.

Just play them.

Huh. I didn't name any names. I think you quoted the wrong post

 

[Square Peg]

Waiting to round 5-6 to react risks watching the 2023 boat sail out to sea without us on it. We had the softest start to the year we could have realistically been given. You can't piss that opportunity up against the wall by being resistant to change if things are dysfunctional. It gets hard for us after round 6.

 

[Sweetback]

Still a lot of exciting young talent in that side.

There’s selection and then there’s structure and overall gameplay. How do we stymie the likes of collingwood, Richmond, Port now, the saints now, and whoever else that can move the ball quickly, that are quick to set up their defences while we stuff around looking for options in space that is congested? The luxury of playing sideways is gone and any player that doesn’t have the dare and move the ball towards the goals becomes a liability.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

In: Banfield

 

[arsesmart]

There’s selection and then there’s structure and overall gameplay. How do we stymie the likes of collingwood, Richmond, Port now, the saints now, and whoever else that can move the ball quickly, that are quick to set up their defences while we stuff around looking for options in space that is congested? The luxury of playing sideways is gone and any player that doesn’t have the dare and move the ball towards the goals becomes a liability.

Yes structure is another thing.

I was super keen to see how we were moving the ball over the preseason. You could see there was a number of exercises aimed at rapid ball movement. But it was also evident there wasn't a massive shift from what we did in 2022.

Could be a number of reasons, but really rapid ball movement didn't really eventuate on the weekend. Although rapid ball movement does becomes a bit stymied when you're fumbling it so much. Hopefully it's just a teething process and we'll get slicker and faster as the season goes on.

Longmuir has, however, cast our lot in with gradual change over evolution in game style so he'll live and die by that sword. It's a zig when others are zagging maneuver.

I think too, listening to what Longmuir has to say about it, the rapid ball movement they want is zonal. Likely forward of centre on, or when they enter the corridor.

 

[Alfonz]

hes doing exactly what Adam Simpson did over the past few years, thinking the premiership window is open now when really its not. Our premiership window is the likes of Amiss, Ras, Johnson, seasoned Serong and Brayshaw and even a Treacy. like it or not folks we`re still in a rebuild. Simon Garlik coming out saying x amount of flags in the next few years was a stupid idea, unnecessary pressure on JLo and the coaching staff and unrealistic expecations from us the fans. Get back to basics and play the youth and cut the fat!

It's a bit different because Simpson had his side stacked with older players. But overall it is the same sort of problem ... they were too old and we are too young to be contenders. Yet the club seems to be acting like we should challenge. And looking at the pre-season expectations thread poll, much of the fanbase is/was as well.

The Jackson trade suggested to me the club thought our list build is finished and our 2023 1st wouldn't be that great (e.g. pick 15 or something).

Bringing in JOM another sign they think we are in contention. Likelihood is he will come and go before we have peaked. They've just extended Brodie, and it would look really bad for those in charge to drop either or both of them.

The reality is we are several years away and we can only win a premiership if players out of the side end up being good players. And keeping them out of the side is not going to get us anywhere in the long term.

 

[arsesmart]

Total players by games played would be a better metric really

There's certainly a correlation between the two. Experience can be a big factor and be hidden if just looking at age.

Although young players are more likely to have inexperience, but also greater potential for physical and emotional immaturity. Whereas the older players who are newer to the system, have that inexperience but aren't as likely to have the maturity issues (possibly the opposite in emotional maturity stakes).

 

[mattis117]

Tough week to read the Freo board, looking forward to next week when the overreactions are exposed. I can admit I was crestfallen to see In: Banfield, but the talk surrounding JLs credentials as a coach are embarrassing. How many people saw us making the semi after the R2 debacle last year?

I saw us play a lot of pre-season and we're so much better than we played on Sunday. It is not our last or second last picked player that determines the outcome, so the melts over Banfield being in have more to do with letting out frustration than being rational considerations. We lost because our best were well below their best. Inevitably, everyone else's performance suffers as a result, e.g., a forward that makes a perfect lead doesn't get a stat unless the midfielder hits him on the chest.

There are 23 games this season - it is guaranteed that all of our young blokes will play. Perhaps it's not such a bad thing protecting them from the first few frenetic rounds; last week was carnage for other clubs in terms of injury. I want to see NOD, Johnson, Sturt, and Amiss as much as anyone, but I also understand that an AFL season is a marathon, not a sprint.

Patience is not a virtue of footy fans I know.

I'll add - I am so disappointed in JTs performance last week, he was tearing up the pre-season games a few weeks ago. I hope he finds his mojo at AFL level.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As much as I disagree with the selection choices, he certainly isnt an idiot. JL is extremely switched on, incredible at implementing his system and brilliant at developing relationships with players.

My biggest frustration is how we've heard several times that it's about finding the balance with the team between offence and defence. Clearly, the balance is wrong because we are outstanding defensively while poor offensively. I feel like we should be putting more on the backline to do their job. We have invested heavily in the backline to the point we have some out and out guns down there so we dont need to baby them. Take more risks, be aggressive and if we * it up, back the backs to hold the line more often than not. We can sacrifice an extra goal a game if we kick 2 more.

I'd love to do a deep dive in how we score, I'd amost guarantee we are extremely limited in scoring from stoppage because we dont have the forward class to kick goals in congestion. Bringing in a Banfield to add more pressure (I'd also query just how much pressure he brings anyway) is almost redundant because we arent going to score from a forwardline stoppage anyway. To this point, we missed Lobb last week because he'd have taken at least 2 contested marks from those long bombs into the forward 50, he's a limited player but we seem to play a limited brand of football going into the forwardline so it worked together

I suppose he's conservative but we've seen selection be brave when needed. Logue forward and Amiss for finals were two very brave selection choices that paid off in spades, the same needs to be done moving forward. I'd love to know what Amiss has done wrong to go from being picked for those finals to now being way back in the pecking order - it's very odd

 

[King Huskii]

Tough week to read the Freo board, looking forward to next week when the overreactions are exposed. I can admit I was crestfallen to see In: Banfield, but the talk surrounding JLs credentials as a coach are embarrassing. How many people saw us making the semi after the R2 debacle last year?

I saw us play a lot of pre-season and we're so much better than we played on Sunday. It is not our last or second last picked player that determines the outcome, so the melts over Banfield being in have more to do with letting out frustration than being rational considerations. We lost because our best were well below their best. Inevitably, everyone else's performance suffers as a result, e.g., a forward that makes a perfect lead doesn't get a stat unless the midfielder hits him on the chest.

There are 23 games this season - it is guaranteed that all of our young blokes will play. Perhaps it's not such a bad thing protecting them from the first few frenetic rounds; last week was carnage for other clubs in terms of injury. I want to see NOD, Johnson, Sturt, and Amiss as much as anyone, but I also understand that an AFL season is a marathon, not a sprint.

Patience is not a virtue of footy fans I know.

I'll add - I am so disappointed in JTs performance last week, he was tearing up the pre-season games a few weeks ago. I hope he finds his mojo at AFL level.

This sounds reasonable

But why play Hughes and promote Banfield when they played terribly

It must deflate the players who trained really well during preseason that are playing wafl scratchies

 

[Dockeroo]

The reality is we are several years away and we can only win a premiership if players out of the side end up being good players. And keeping them out of the side is not going to get us anywhere in the long term.

I think you have nailed it here. Deep down I don’t think this team has the scoring power to win the flag this year.
Therefore you get games into Amiss especially ASAP. The guy has shown he can adapt quickly to the level.
I’d safely say 20 game Jye amiss will be well ahead of peak Bailey Banfield.
50 game Amiss should be well ahead of peak Matt Taberner.
So get him to those milestones quickly!!

 

[mattis117]

This sounds reasonable

But why play Hughes and promote Banfield when they played terribly

It must deflate the players who trained really well during preseason that are playing wafl scratchies

Don't have an answer for that one haha, I can only guess that they really like to have a defensive minded winger. Will be interesting to see who they pick when NOD is declared fully fit and available for AFL selection.

 

[arsesmart]

It's a bit different because Simpson had his side stacked with older players. But overall it is the same sort of problem ... they were too old and we are too young to be contenders. Yet the club seems to be acting like we should challenge. And looking at the pre-season expectations thread poll, much of the fanbase is/was as well.

The Jackson trade suggested to me the club thought our list build is finished and our 2023 1st wouldn't be that great (e.g. pick 15 or something).

Bringing in JOM another sign they think we are in contention. Likelihood is he will come and go before we have peaked. They've just extended Brodie, and it would look really bad for those in charge to drop either or both of them.

The reality is we are several years away and we can only win a premiership if players out of the side end up being good players. And keeping them out of the side is not going to get us anywhere in the long term.

Yeah I don't know. Bringing in a teenage ruck doesn't really scream "Hey we're done developing". Likewise having the third youngest list in the AFL. Having some experience (eg O'Meara) is important to aid development as well.

While it is a harder challenge, I think you can combine developing and putting yourself around the mark, maybe hope to pinch a premiership along the way, if everything clicks. The obvious model is the Hawks in '08. Had brought in Dew to add experience, but didn't really hit prime contention until a few years later.

 

[Outshined]

Not a fan of even suggesting the head coach is an idiot - it somewhat undermines the point of an otherwise valid discussion.

More to the point, he's clearly a very good coach and an astute man. You can't live in the past but equally, you can't discount the runs on the board he has from last season. He took one of the youngest/most inexperienced lists to a top 5 finish. We're not talking about a Matthew Primus

Matthew Primus

Age

49

Ht

198cm

Wt

109kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.2

4star

HO

16.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

HO

13.8

5star

here.

Other more astute posters have highlighted the bigger concern which is that so far, he still hasn't been able to find enough of a balance between defence/attack. That is in part due to personnel and deeper issues with the drafting strategy for the last 10 years but it still feels like there's room to open up a little and risk conceding a couple more goals a game in order to score more. We'd probably still be a top 4-6 defensive team and generally, the better balanced sides are usually around at the end of September.

The conservative selections are a lesser issue tbh. He errs on the side of backing experience over raw talent - but he did select a 1st year KPF for an elimination final after 12 weeks out. This week while it's incredibly frustrating that we see so little change after a terrible performance, there's also at least some form of logic in him backing the same 20ish players to rectify their mistakes. Although I do hope the penny drops at least a little and he just plays Amiss.

 

[sumavich]

We've lost Lobb & The great man Mundy, very important players for our structure.
Lobb could take a grab, more than our forward line did on the w/end.
And we don't have anyone as good as Mundy delivering in to the forward line. No-one!
Additionally teams have got better, Port, Carlton, etc
We will be battling to make the 8 if we drop one of the next two.
Therefore, he should be under heaps of pressure, as it's his 4th year.
He's not in Kansas anymore

 

[Bigger]

Tough week to read the Freo board, looking forward to next week when the overreactions are exposed. I can admit I was crestfallen to see In: Banfield, but the talk surrounding JLs credentials as a coach are embarrassing. How many people saw us making the semi after the R2 debacle last year?

I saw us play a lot of pre-season and we're so much better than we played on Sunday. It is not our last or second last picked player that determines the outcome, so the melts over Banfield being in have more to do with letting out frustration than being rational considerations. We lost because our best were well below their best. Inevitably, everyone else's performance suffers as a result, e.g., a forward that makes a perfect lead doesn't get a stat unless the midfielder hits him on the chest.

There are 23 games this season - it is guaranteed that all of our young blokes will play. Perhaps it's not such a bad thing protecting them from the first few frenetic rounds; last week was carnage for other clubs in terms of injury. I want to see NOD, Johnson, Sturt, and Amiss as much as anyone, but I also understand that an AFL season is a marathon, not a sprint.

Patience is not a virtue of footy fans I know.

I'll add - I am so disappointed in JTs performance last week, he was tearing up the pre-season games a few weeks ago. I hope he finds his mojo at AFL level.

Way too ******* sensible, mate. Get your pitchfork and get in line.



(Totally agree re Cyclone BTW. All he needs to do is to stick fat to the idea that it is him who leads to the ball. Him who demands it. He's good enough; he just gets reactive to the man and not the ball. We like you killing campaigners, Josh, but we also want to see you fly at the pill.)

 

[kingswood71]

I'd love to do a deep dive in how we score.

We ranked 15th in average marks on leads last year (average 6.2 per game) and 16th for Marks inside 50 (9.2).........And dead last for marks inside 50 rate (Marks inside forward 50 per inside 50).
Ergo, we dont mark much on leads and we dont mark much inside 50.
Ironically geelong lead in all those stats....and won a premiership.
Now call me odd, but I reckon marking inside 50 and taking marks on leads inside 50 may well give us a better shot at scoring more

 

[Serongnthnks4allthefish]

I think like every coach he's stubborn. He's got a clear idea about how he wants the team to be structured, and that means we see changes like we've seen.
I'll back his changes (somewhat reluctantly) despite wanting to see young guys getting more run. I think the question I have is how long do you give a coach the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Sweetback]

I think too, listening to what Longmuir has to say about it, the rapid ball movement they want is zonal. Likely forward of centre on, or when they enter the corridor.

That makes no sense to me when we struggled to find a target coming out of halfback.

 

[Son of a Wizard]

We've lost Lobb & The great man Mundy, very important players for our structure.
Lobb could take a grab, more than our forward line did on the w/end.
And we don't have anyone as good as Mundy delivering in to the forward line. No-one!
Additionally teams have got better, Port, Carlton, etc
We will be battling to make the 8 if we drop one of the next two.
Therefore, he should be under heaps of pressure, as it's his 4th year.
He's not in Kansas anymore

I hate to say this but you know who we are really missing, Acres. He played a very good good offensive and defensive role. Wings if they are good are like allrounders in cricket. Australia as a test team look a lot better with Cam Green in the side. Acres made us more attacking and really helped our defence. He may have been asking for too much money and I understand why we let him go but he was very good for Carlton last night. Considerable loss. Our wings at the moment are not great. We need them to be optimal to be a premiership threat.

 

[Vintage]

He seems to be slow to learn

Longmuir has coached 4 times in round 1 and every time the team has under-performed.

Would love to see him learn from his pre-deason coaching mistakes and actually prepare a team who perform at a higher standard in week 1.

Not sure it’s right to say we have necessarily underperformed. In 2020 we weren’t very good but only lost away to Essendon by 6points. 21 we lost to eventual premiers Melbourne who were at the start of a 9 game winning streak. Last year we (just) beat Adelaide at the start of a great development year. This year was disappointing.

 

[arsesmart]

That makes no sense to me when we struggled to find a target coming out of halfback.

What do you mean?

Plans and execution are different things.

Controlled movement in the back half, aiming to set up a chance at more flowing movement from more attacking launch zones once the opportunity arises. Theoretically is the plan.

 

[Rob]

I'm more concerned that the failures from last year's gameplan haven't been addressed before whatever happens at the selection table.