List Mgmt. Contracts/Trade/Draft Thread - 2025 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Players out of Contract 2025 (12)

Spoiler

• Oscar Allen (19/3/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in May 2021
• Campbell Chesser (27/4/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in May 2022
• Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) in May 2022
• Rhett Bazzo (17/10/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in September 2022
• Jayden Hunt (3/4/95) - Signed a 3 year contract (2023-25) in October 2022
• Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in March 2023
• Jamie Cripps (23/4/92) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• (R) Loch Rawlinson (1/6/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Coen Livingstone (25/5/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Malakai Champion (17/5/06) - Automatic 1 year contract (2025) when added as a Cat B Rookie in November 2024
• (R) Jacob Newton (20/3/06/) - Automatic 6 month contract (2025) when drafted in May 2025

Provisional 2025 Draft order

Spoiler

 

[Wedgetailed Westerner]

-You're nitpicking, I didn't say there was anything wrong with players playing sacrificial roles obviously its part of the game. The context of the comment was that in our premiership era 6 man forward line 5 of the players were supremely talented superstars and Cripps was the odd one out and a "role player." And I quoted Simpson a few posts before about how he saw the difference between the 2. My comment is that its odd that the guy who wasn't, to use Simmo's words a "dangerous" small forward, in the side "to kick goals," in the last 2 seasons has become that. Its an attempt to steer people toward a better analysis which recognises that he is a different player now to what he was then, and he actually does not bring elite pressure or contribute to team defence in the same way [because clearly he is a step slower, doesn't cover the same amount of ground, and unlike in 2014-18 is no longer ranked in the top 10 to top 5 in the AFL for tackles and i50 tackles, among other things]. Your just repeating an outdated understanding of the player he was, and not looking at the player he is today- which I haven't said is bad, I've said he's having career best years in 2024 and 2025 for things like shots on goal and accuracy and there being a strange increase on his relative contribution to our final score compared to his peak something worth understanding because its probably not a good indicator of how we are travelling as a team. Any of those points are more valuable to pick up on rather than criticise around the edges as if I have no understanding of a basic fact of football that players with elite fitness can be valuable. And can we not pretend that just because all coaches deploy 2 way running and holding width to good effect, that Simmo wasn't the meme lord behind the ''gimp wing" phenomenon and the closely associated "gimp half forward" role.

-Nothing wrong with Steven Armstrong, I've always loved him. He is a known premiership role player and is often cited as evidence you need role players to win Premierships. The comparison was not intended to be taken as me saying a 30 game career as a role player is the same as a 300 game career as a role player, it was to say that Cripps [like Armstrong before him]is a role player, not a bloke your stumping up the cost of admission to go see [which any of Kennedy, Darling, Le Cras, Ryan, Rioli would be].

-Correct about the bad seasons, as you say he went from an average goals per game of 1.6 in 2019 to 0.6 in 2020 and that slowly raised back up to 1.4, I don't even get why you would disagree with that as if its evidence there wasn't a drop off. Look at the tables bellow, which I'm sure you have.
View attachment 2314016

Simpson comes in in 2014 and Cripps significantly improved his output from 0.8 goals a game to 1.4 goals a game, does the same in 2015, drops off a little in 16 and 17 [which was where credits crew started to emerge as a Simmoism, and it could be argued Cripps was emblematic of that even then] then shoots to career high 1.5/1.6 goals a game in 2018/19. I think its pretty well accepted to say that 2014 Simmo surprised us by nearly making finals and that we then entered a period where we might of been considered the/a elite team of that mid 2010's era, making 2 grand finals. And while we didn't immediately suck from 2020, the covid year is pretty much seen by everyone as the beginning of the end for our successes. If Cripps hits career high return in 2019 off the back of 5 years of being pretty elite, then in 2020 drops by a whole goal a game before slowly building back up to 1.2/1.3 goals a game which is not back to peak... its just stating a fact that his career stats 2014-19 and 2020-23 are seperate things, and that the former is superior to the latter. It was still 1.2 goals a game last year despite me saying many times that he had a good year. 1.2 goals a game from a small forward is not exactly setting the world on fire. It's doing your job for sure but I've argued that it's not doing your job so well it's inconceivable for that 1.2 goals a game to come from Brockman, Dewar or Gross. I addressed his possessions for 2024/25 as well, didn't really look at career average trends there as I see it as less important but have said that yes he is getting a couple possessions more a game than the other small forwards and I tried to put it out there that if you want to highlight that then perhaps look at the difference between uncontested and contested possessions. Seems to me he's getting easier ball and that the opposition is wiling to allow him to be an outlet for structural reasons, more so than it being likely he's just become a better player. It's clear he's not working harder than the younger Cripps and not working harder than our other small forwards, the tracking data will support that, I've looked at it. So what is going on there? How do we best interpret these stats, it's a genuine question that I conceded is difficult to answer. I welcome any perspective on it and am not averse to giving credit where its due, if someone wants to break down his game and make a case that Cripps has reinvented himself into one of the games elite small forwards a second time then I would love that. Good players can and do find ways to be more effective in the twilight of their careers, leading the goal kicking right now could be evidence that Cripps 3.0 is a brilliant thing. Or it could just be that we have a terrible forward system and he's been a bit lucky but is actually trending the opposite way. It's up for debate.

-Sorry, misspoke on Owies in that post, of course you want to highlight it but as I said I didn't want to go look it up but I've posted direct comparisons of their seasons before with screenshots with the actual numbers. It's not as if I don't look things up, I look things up more than 99% of the posters on this board and bring recites more often than not. When you are just making a general statement it's not always necessary to stop what you are doing and double check things. As you said, the fact is that Owies is more accurate or was last year, and Cripps is higher possession but is playing a different role and last year the extra possessions were spent on clangers rather than to the teams advantage. We all know Owies is finding it tough so far this year and Cripps is slightly ahead due to him having an anomalously good year for accuracy while Owies is trending the other way.

-I do not understate his value, I directly state his value and talk about the specifics because people tend to overstate his value and largely pretend he's the same player he was when he was 25.

Now, onto more important things. Please admit that there should be a difference in how we define youth and agree that players on their first contract are different to players who have been retained and offered new contracts [and some of their draft cohort potentially let go]. Clear 3rd year player divide, they are main group not youth. It's poor semantics calling Ginbey playing "the youth" when draftee's are properly considered first, and even second, year players. They get 2 years to show something. if they show enough and get asked to stay around then while still young, they are not exactly untested players, especially when they are fully entrenched best 22. Arbitrarily counting games from Ginbey, Hewett, Long and Dewar as samesies as Richmond pumping a heap of games into their first year players while we try every excuse in the book not to play Tom Gross is club sponsored dodgy accounting at its finest and unbecoming of one of my favourite posters. You can't seriously be saying "well actually, we're playing the youth more than Richmond are, when anyone watching the game on Sunday could see that Richmond's recent draft haul outnumbered our 10 minutes of Tom Gross on the field 10 to 1*

*Not a real figure, no fact checks please.

**** me all I see is

 

[Lia]

-You're nitpicking, I didn't say there was anything wrong with players playing sacrificial roles obviously its part of the game. The context of the comment was that in our premiership era 6 man forward line 5 of the players were supremely talented superstars and Cripps was the odd one out and a "role player." And I quoted Simpson a few posts before about how he saw the difference between the 2. My comment is that its odd that the guy who wasn't, to use Simmo's words a "dangerous" small forward, in the side "to kick goals," in the last 2 seasons has become that. Its an attempt to steer people toward a better analysis which recognises that he is a different player now to what he was then, and he actually does not bring elite pressure or contribute to team defence in the same way [because clearly he is a step slower, doesn't cover the same amount of ground, and unlike in 2014-18 is no longer ranked in the top 10 to top 5 in the AFL for tackles and i50 tackles, among other things]. Your just repeating an outdated understanding of the player he was, and not looking at the player he is today- which I haven't said is bad, I've said he's having career best years in 2024 and 2025 for things like shots on goal and accuracy and there being a strange increase on his relative contribution to our final score compared to his peak something worth understanding because its probably not a good indicator of how we are travelling as a team. Any of those points are more valuable to pick up on rather than criticise around the edges as if I have no understanding of a basic fact of football that players with elite fitness can be valuable. And can we not pretend that just because all coaches deploy 2 way running and holding width to good effect, that Simmo wasn't the meme lord behind the ''gimp wing" phenomenon and the closely associated "gimp half forward" role.

-Nothing wrong with Steven Armstrong, I've always loved him. He is a known premiership role player and is often cited as evidence you need role players to win Premierships. The comparison was not intended to be taken as me saying a 30 game career as a role player is the same as a 300 game career as a role player, it was to say that Cripps [like Armstrong before him]is a role player, not a bloke your stumping up the cost of admission to go see [which any of Kennedy, Darling, Le Cras, Ryan, Rioli would be].

-Correct about the bad seasons, as you say he went from an average goals per game of 1.6 in 2019 to 0.6 in 2020 and that slowly raised back up to 1.4, I don't even get why you would disagree with that as if its evidence there wasn't a drop off. Look at the tables bellow, which I'm sure you have.
View attachment 2314016

Simpson comes in in 2014 and Cripps significantly improved his output from 0.8 goals a game to 1.4 goals a game, does the same in 2015, drops off a little in 16 and 17 [which was where credits crew started to emerge as a Simmoism, and it could be argued Cripps was emblematic of that even then] then shoots to career high 1.5/1.6 goals a game in 2018/19. I think its pretty well accepted to say that 2014 Simmo surprised us by nearly making finals and that we then entered a period where we might of been considered the/a elite team of that mid 2010's era, making 2 grand finals. And while we didn't immediately suck from 2020, the covid year is pretty much seen by everyone as the beginning of the end for our successes. If Cripps hits career high return in 2019 off the back of 5 years of being pretty elite, then in 2020 drops by a whole goal a game before slowly building back up to 1.2/1.3 goals a game which is not back to peak... its just stating a fact that his career stats 2014-19 and 2020-23 are seperate things, and that the former is superior to the latter. It was still 1.2 goals a game last year despite me saying many times that he had a good year. 1.2 goals a game from a small forward is not exactly setting the world on fire. It's doing your job for sure but I've argued that it's not doing your job so well it's inconceivable for that 1.2 goals a game to come from Brockman, Dewar or Gross. I addressed his possessions for 2024/25 as well, didn't really look at career average trends there as I see it as less important but have said that yes he is getting a couple possessions more a game than the other small forwards and I tried to put it out there that if you want to highlight that then perhaps look at the difference between uncontested and contested possessions. Seems to me he's getting easier ball and that the opposition is wiling to allow him to be an outlet for structural reasons, more so than it being likely he's just become a better player. It's clear he's not working harder than the younger Cripps and not working harder than our other small forwards, the tracking data will support that, I've looked at it. So what is going on there? How do we best interpret these stats, it's a genuine question that I conceded is difficult to answer. I welcome any perspective on it and am not averse to giving credit where its due, if someone wants to break down his game and make a case that Cripps has reinvented himself into one of the games elite small forwards a second time then I would love that. Good players can and do find ways to be more effective in the twilight of their careers, leading the goal kicking right now could be evidence that Cripps 3.0 is a brilliant thing. Or it could just be that we have a terrible forward system and he's been a bit lucky but is actually trending the opposite way. It's up for debate.

-Sorry, misspoke on Owies in that post, of course you want to highlight it but as I said I didn't want to go look it up but I've posted direct comparisons of their seasons before with screenshots with the actual numbers. It's not as if I don't look things up, I look things up more than 99% of the posters on this board and bring recites more often than not. When you are just making a general statement it's not always necessary to stop what you are doing and double check things. As you said, the fact is that Owies is more accurate or was last year, and Cripps is higher possession but is playing a different role and last year the extra possessions were spent on clangers rather than to the teams advantage. We all know Owies is finding it tough so far this year and Cripps is slightly ahead due to him having an anomalously good year for accuracy while Owies is trending the other way.

-I do not understate his value, I directly state his value and talk about the specifics because people tend to overstate his value and largely pretend he's the same player he was when he was 25.

Now, onto more important things. Please admit that there should be a difference in how we define youth and agree that players on their first contract are different to players who have been retained and offered new contracts [and some of their draft cohort potentially let go]. Clear 3rd year player divide, they are main group not youth. It's poor semantics calling Ginbey playing "the youth" when draftee's are properly considered first, and even second, year players. They get 2 years to show something. if they show enough and get asked to stay around then while still young, they are not exactly untested players, especially when they are fully entrenched best 22. Arbitrarily counting games from Ginbey, Hewett, Long and Dewar as samesies as Richmond pumping a heap of games into their first year players while we try every excuse in the book not to play Tom Gross is club sponsored dodgy accounting at its finest and unbecoming of one of my favourite posters. You can't seriously be saying "well actually, we're playing the youth more than Richmond are, when anyone watching the game on Sunday could see that Richmond's recent draft haul outnumbered our 10 minutes of Tom Gross on the field 10 to 1*

*Not a real figure, no fact checks please.

 

[Cuzz09]

No one reads anything over 2 paragraphs long. Forget it

 

[Farmer Lister]

Kelly's new deal will hopefully make history as the biggest drop in earnings between contracts

 

[Smotie2]

Kelly's new deal will hopefully make history as the biggest drop in earnings between contracts

Hopefully he's back on a rookie contract.
75k a year

 

[TerryFilk]

Kelly's new deal will hopefully make history as the biggest drop in earnings between contracts

The article says he’ll be on 800K, so I think that’s a 300K drop, lol.

 

[mattyc75]

Kelly's new deal will hopefully make history as the biggest drop in earnings between contracts

Maybe in.the afl, I think Ben Simmons has him very comfortably covered

 

[sharps24]

View attachment 2314037

How have I not got you on ingnore already, wowsers. Cheers for your contribution to the discussion. A classic.

 

[Elite Pete]

I’m all for older blokes guiding the way but that contract is weird.

You’d assume he has to be playing with decent injury that the club only know about with his output and getting that contract.

Who is TKs manager and what other clients does he have? One must be on the way to the Eagles. Only other way to explain that deal

 

[sharps24]

You would hope Kelly is HF only for those 2 years and on an average wage.

Worst case he's an expensive Beagles pick up.

Oh I'm hoping all right. Got the champers ready for when it becomes offical. Congrats TK.

 

[Elite Pete]

Two more games to the MSD!
We go for the best player available in the MSD, who is it likely to be?
A midfielder?

Sellwood got a nice talk up by the WA state league skipper. Said he’s not sure how he’s not on an afl list.

Seems a little momentum is building that way.

 

[DigUpStupid]

Only contract I'm giving Kelly

 

[Coasters7]

Doing it now makes no sense.

A new contract hasn't been earned at this stage.

Unless we're using his poor start to the year to lowball him, but he wouldn't agree to those terms anyway.

What's the rush? There won't be suitors lining up.

This is the key takeaway. I don’t think too many would mind Kelly playing HFF on an average wage for 2 years, but why now?

We hold all the cards, just like we did with Yeo and just like we currently do with Allen and yet we’re going to go early again (and also has me worried about us caving on Allen).

All West Aussies who’d rather stay than go, and all players who would require a huge offer to consider moving interstate. ie. if we waited till the end of the season it’d still take someone paying more than market value to entice any of these players to move.

 

[sharps24]

Proven half forward. A certified deal holder upper from the 2019 mega trade. Hated by all the right people. A mere 30 years of age. What is not to love. Welcome back TK. New look new role new deal giddeee-up.

 

[Seadog]

Tim's lucky we don't have any players other than Harley deserving of large salary increases. Fact is when you have to pay 95% of the cap and your list is less than ordinary a lot of players will be overpaid.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The article says he’ll be on 800K, so I think that’s a 300K drop, lol.

The article says his current deal is $800k, not the new two year deal.

 

[Choogler]

Cripps on form deserves another deal for sure

Awkward and also quite disappointing that Brockman/Schlong/Owies can't push a 33yr old bloke out of the senior side, or even put any real pressure on his spot in a rebuilding team.

Is it disappointing that even older guys like Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Tex, Dangerfield and Gunston are still first 23 choices at their clubs. If they are best 23 nothing disappointing about that!

 

[Keys]

I'm gonna f*cking spew. And the article says 'That deal is believed to be worth about $800,000 a year.' The guy isn't even worth $600,000 the way he's performed for years now. F*cking gross, and I'm not talking about Tom.

The article says he’ll be on 800K, so I think that’s a 300K drop, lol.

Just for clarity, the reference to $800k relates to his current contract. There is no mention of what the value of the proposed new 2 year deal might be

https://archive.is/dr5pa

It comes after reported interest in Kelly from cross-town rivals Fremantle last season ahead of the final year of the six-year contract he signed when he crossed from Geelong at the end of 20
That deal is believed to be worth about $800,000 a year.

 

[sharps24]

This is the key takeaway. I don’t think too many would mind Kelly playing HFF on an average wage for 2 years, but why now?

We hold all the cards, just like we did with Yeo and just like we currently do with Allen and yet we’re going to go early again (and also has me worried about us caving on Allen).

All West Aussies who’d rather stay than go, and all players who would require a huge offer to consider moving interstate. ie. if we waited till the end of the season it’d still take someone paying more than market value to entice any of these players to move.

its not uncommon for players to struggle with their form when going through stressful contract negotiations. If we are signing him then get it done, and move on. He'll be happier for it and will enjoy life more and that probably means plays better footy. Many many deals to be done this year, can't leave them all to the last minute.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Would rather we give Dom Sheed an extension than Kelly.

 

[pantskyle]

Would rather we give Dom Sheed an extension than Kelly.

Well do I have some good news for you.

 

[Keys]

Sellwood got a nice talk up by the WA state league skipper. Said he’s not sure how he’s not on an afl list.

Seems a little momentum is building that way.

Personally think he’d be a good selection. Don’t know enough about the other possibilities to say he’s the best choice but I won’t be unhappy if he’s on our list in a fortnight from now

 

[WCE777]

The article says his current deal is $800k, not the new two year deal.

that's the way I read the article, Kelly's contract was $800k over the life of the deal

 

[WCE777]

Personally think he’d be a good selection. Don’t know enough about the other possibilities to say he’s the best choice but I won’t be unhappy if he’s on our list in a fortnight from now

Totally agree, seems he is right in the mix and if he is as good as stated, welcome to WC.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Everyone relax - we need to spend the money somewhere to meet the minimum salary cap despite having a list that isn't worth that level of money.

Rather overpay a veteran like TK than warp our kids perspectives/expectations of their contract value.

Yeah TK wasn't able to meet our lofty expectations & carry the team as the wheels fell off - but he's been one of our best and most durable players.

Form's been patchy this year but he's not alone - He's worth a 1-2 year contract.