List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. 2021 Edition

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Keys

Looking for a cloud to yell at
Oct 11, 2006
48,234
79,635
Perth
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Dale Doback

Senior List
Aug 6, 2018
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548
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Robert Harvey has his fingerprints on the way they played today. Harvey himself never stopped running. He never had a powerful kick but he 'd hit leading forwards all day long with neat passes. The young pies mids didn't stop moving all day and picked their way through the corridor and through our witches hat midfielders with ease. They weren't playing that way 6 weeks ago. You have to train that way to be able to produce it on gameday.

On the flip side, christ knows what we're training for. Do we do circle work, practicing endless f**ing switching? We are so flat footed transitioning the ball it's beyond a joke. Our half backs rarely pull the trigger and run off to receive a handball to keep the ball moving.

And the team defense just isn't working. Man on man until we gets some new assistants with fresh eyes to point out to Simpson what is going wrong. Or Simpson go's. I really don't care

Can we steal Don Pyke from Sydney?
 

mattyc75

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 5, 2010
6,991
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over here
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I have serious reservations about us basing our recruiting on an expectation that Rioli can effectively fill a role as an inside mid. Big questions about his application, fitness, plus there is no evidence that he could consistently find the ball on a weekly basis in sufficient number. Plus he is invaluable forward with his creativity. As a pinch hitter he is pretty good, but I'd be very surprised if he could become a consistent good inside mid. He's also 26 so we are still left with a gaping hole between 19 & 25.
His fitness by next season wont be an issue,i think before he was suspended he was covering a lot of ground.only behind gaff I think. Could be wrong tho

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Priddis Is Done

Norm Smith Medallist
May 28, 2017
5,523
6,830
AFL Club
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And to think. That Richmond game in Perth. I thought that was the beginning

What the hell happened because fu** me it happened super quick
Was the bye after Richmond?

And we replaced a winning team with 5 underdone players, aka credits in the bank.

Nearly forgot, raspberry cordial was served on the plane rather than strawberry.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
24,660
21,017
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
Robert Harvey has his fingerprints on the way they played today. Harvey himself never stopped running. He never had a powerful kick but he 'd hit leading forwards all day long with neat passes. The young pies mids didn't stop moving all day and picked their way through the corridor and through our witches hat midfielders with ease. They weren't playing that way 6 weeks ago. You have to train that way to be able to produce it on gameday.

On the flip side, christ knows what we're training for. Do we do circle work, practicing endless f**ing switching? We are so flat footed transitioning the ball it's beyond a joke. Our half backs rarely pull the trigger and run off to receive a handball to keep the ball moving.

And the team defense just isn't working. Man on man until we gets some new assistants with fresh eyes to point out to Simpson what is going wrong. Or Simpson go's. I really don't care

Can we steal Don Pyke from Sydney?
Go look at a lot of our bad losses. Teams have worked out some time ago the run, carry, handball and short kick into the forward line game plan is how you beat the Eagles zone defense. The midfield defend like witches hats, defenders zone off looking to take impressive intercept marks. In fact Id stop calling our backline players defenders, they should just be called Zoners.

The new riules have really opened the game up for teams who can run and handball plus hit 15m low passes.

Eagles have two glaring issues with their old, stale, predictable gameplan.

1. We dont run and carry the ball out of defense or link throught the midfield with handball. Do we have the players to do that? Because the game plan is predictable kick, mark, kick, mark and yep you guessed it, kick, turnover, goal against.

2. Our zone defense is defunct. Out dated, easy to score against by teams who refuse to bomb it long. Even when the opposition are 16th on the ladder with a sacked coach, injuries ( including their GOAT captain) and with an assistant coach in charge.

So Simo very much this is on you mate. Time to earn that extension and shake things up. May as well start now because we are going backwards at the moment.

Don Pike from Sydney is the exact brain we need. Someone who knows how to coach attacking ball movement out of defense and link through the middle. This constant 1st option to kick backwards, sideways from defense to switch play is killing us.
 
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ArdentEagle

Old enough to know better, too drunk to try.
Feb 12, 2008
6,486
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Minor Infraction
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That's just over 2 goals a game. Not a great average for a spearhead. The last three seasons have been around the same mark,

I love JK as a player, and he's been tremendous for us over a long time, but to be a real premiership threat we need our number one forward to average more goals per game than that. Especially as Jack Darling is only averaging 1.8 goals a game this year...
I'd love to find out his average after coming back from a layoff/rest. I'd dare dare it'd be 70%+ higher.

He can still football like very few but only when his body lets him. I truly believe he should be a home game specialist.
Play every 2nd week. We get the best out of him, we give a chance to others in the position to work out the succession plan.
 

ziad

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2009
18,077
10,691
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
Go look at a lot of our bad losses. Teams have worked out some time ago the run, carry, handball and short kick into the forward line game plan is how you beat the Eagles zone defense. The midfield defend like witches hats, defenders zone off looking to take impressive intercept marks. In fact Id stop calling our backline players defenders, they should just be called Zoners.

The new riules have really opened the game up for teams who can run and handball plus hit 15m low passes.

Eagles have two glaring issues with their old, stale, predictable gameplan.

1. We dont run and carry the ball out of defense or link throught the midfield with handball. Do we have the players to do that? Because the game plan is predictable kick, mark, kick, mark and yep you guessed it, kick, turnover, goal against.

2. Our zone defense is defunct. Out dated, easy to score against by teams who refuse to bomb it long. Even when the opposition are 16th on the ladder with a sacked coach, injuries ( including their GOAT captain) and with an assistant coach in charge.

So Simo very much this is on you mate. Time to earn that extension and shake things up. May as well start now because we are going backwards at the moment.

Don Pike from Sydney is the exact brain we need. Someone who knows how to coach attacking ball movement out of defense and link through the middle. This constant 1st option to kick backwards, sideways from defense to switch play is killing us.
All ok, but our defence includes AA players including a Draft pick 7?. The only player who ran and tried use the corridor was Harry who is about 19.
You also have to have players upfield running to provide options or the run is of little value. Fitness is an issue as are injury related fitness decline - but thats why it is a team game - it is a team effort. No guts no glory.

Great to drop players but there is nothig to replace them with. XON is the best available at the moment and he was hopeless.
 

Avalor

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 15, 2009
11,189
6,250
Jakarta
AFL Club
West Coast
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All ok, but our defence includes AA players including a Draft pick 7?. The only player who ran and tried use the corridor was Harry who is about 19.
You also have to have players upfield running to provide options or the run is of little value. Fitness is an issue as are injury related fitness decline - but thats why it is a team game - it is a team effort. No guts no glory.

Great to drop players but there is nothig to replace them with. XON is the best available at the moment and he was hopeless.
They might be AA defenders, but they were picked as such from a time before Hocking's changes, from an outmoded defensive system. They have not adapted. Now, thanks to Hocking, you need hard runners out of the back half who have speed, dash and dare. We don't have them.
I just wish the VFL would stop making rule changes every flipping year. It affects recruiting and game style beyond words.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2011
24,457
33,289
AFL Club
West Coast
We’re going to suffer a while if McGovern and gaff continue to decline with the size of their contracts.

Quality talent coming through from the bottom is near non-existent

Looking at this team thinking who is in our next flag side, maybe Allen don’t think too many others.

It’s going to be a rough road ahead for a few years where we’re going to be able to top up with some very high draft picks but almost feels as if something else is going on at the club. Surely the lack of defensive pressure/willingness to chase from certain senior players is evident on the film review yet we get to an extremely significant milestone game against a bottom side and we see this endeavour tonight.

A lot of work ahead for the board.
Things can and do change pretty quickly. Reckon there were more than a few that thought we were in for years of pain after underwhelming years in 2016 and 17. Reckon there’s plenty of talent that could play in a flag if we get things right in the next couple of years (game plan and draft) including Allen, Ryan, Darling, Kelly, Brander, both Edwards.
 
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Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
24,660
21,017
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
All ok, but our defence includes AA players including a Draft pick 7?. The only player who ran and tried use the corridor was Harry who is about 19.
You also have to have players upfield running to provide options or the run is of little value. Fitness is an issue as are injury related fitness decline - but thats why it is a team game - it is a team effort. No guts no glory.

Great to drop players but there is nothig to replace them with. XON is the best available at the moment and he was hopeless.
You say there is nothing to replace dropped players. I do not agree.

Ever since we dropped 5 fringe players for 5 established so called best 22 players we have been worse than average.

We just played a team in 16th place with a fill in coach, a team with more injuries yet they are playing the kids to see what they can do. And those kids with a handful of experienced stars around them just handed us a flogging.
 

Carbine Chaos

Ainsworth #33
Apr 1, 2009
55,760
70,506
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I think there are a lot of minor 'balance' issues within the list and side that need rectification, but I feel will go overlooked.

With the impressive work of Harry Edwards this season, it is feasible that we will go the three talls in Barrass, McGovern and Edwards next year in the hope of replicating the '18 success down there. But where does this leave, say, Rotham, who I feel is best suited to a third tall who can run off? And among the smaller defenders, I really don't feel any are particularly suited to dealing with the fast, nippy smalls. Ben Johnson is the best suited player on the list for this job but is a decent chance to be let go at the end of this year.

The forward balancing issues are well documented, but I still feel the crumbing option is where we are really lacking. Ryan is a marking player, a fit Rioli is likely to spend time up the ground, and I don't think Petch or Cripps do it well enough, often enough. Jarrod Cameron is the best option here but his body has checked out, maybe his mind as well, and I'm convinced he's going to be playing for the Lions sooner rather than later. I'd consider Petch on a wing next season, as I feel he's beginning to involve himself in the play more.

Brander speaks for himself. We still don't know what we're doing with one of our top draft picks from the last 5 years. Someone said he played back in the WAFL this week? Not sure if true, but he's not getting a game there for the seniors, so who even knows anymore.

The second ruck continues to be an issue and this is likely to remain an issue next year. Even if Kennedy retires, we're likely to play all 3 of Allen, Darling and Waterman up front and you can't have your second ruck sitting on the pine all game. You shouldn't be wasting a bench spot on a tall.

We don't expose our young midfielders to any real midfield time (and when we do, a Luke Edwards gets 27 touches and helps us win a game. Shock, horror. Immediately out when a senior player returns). This has to change, and is more a tactical issue than a list balance one. Shuey and Kelly are genuine goal threats and should spend some time forward or on a flank, and I hope this happens more when Rioli returns. He gives us a lot more flexibility.

We have a good list, but not a great list. I think we need to be ruthless in the next few seasons, which will involve some players such as Redden and Gaff being tapped on the shoulder.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
24,660
21,017
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
i had it also at Gaff & Shuey from the 2008 & 2009 drafts, it seems the recruitment staff couldn't hit the side of a barn when drafting a young mid.
And this is 2021.

10 plus YEARS later.

Sheed is a decent mid.

Lets just say if O'Brien doesnt address needs this draft the pitch forks will be out in force.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
24,660
21,017
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
I think there are a lot of minor 'balance' issues within the list and side that need rectification, but I feel will go overlooked.

With the impressive work of Harry Edwards this season, it is feasible that we will go the three talls in Barrass, McGovern and Edwards next year in the hope of replicating the '18 success down there. But where does this leave, say, Rotham, who I feel is best suited to a third tall who can run off? And among the smaller defenders, I really don't feel any are particularly suited to dealing with the fast, nippy smalls. Ben Johnson is the best suited player on the list for this job but is a decent chance to be let go at the end of this year.

The forward balancing issues are well documented, but I still feel the crumbing option is where we are really lacking. Ryan is a marking player, a fit Rioli is likely to spend time up the ground, and I don't think Petch or Cripps do it well enough, often enough. Jarrod Cameron is the best option here but his body has checked out, maybe his mind as well, and I'm convinced he's going to be playing for the Lions sooner rather than later. I'd consider Petch on a wing next season, as I feel he's beginning to involve himself in the play more.

Brander speaks for himself. We still don't know what we're doing with one of our top draft picks from the last 5 years. Someone said he played back in the WAFL this week? Not sure if true, but he's not getting a game there for the seniors, so who even knows anymore.

The second ruck continues to be an issue and this is likely to remain an issue next year. Even if Kennedy retires, we're likely to play all 3 of Allen, Darling and Waterman up front and you can't have your second ruck sitting on the pine all game. You shouldn't be wasting a bench spot on a tall.

We don't expose our young midfielders to any real midfield time (and when we do, a Luke Edwards gets 27 touches and helps us win a game. Shock, horror. Immediately out when a senior player returns). This has to change, and is more a tactical issue than a list balance one. Shuey and Kelly are genuine goal threats and should spend some time forward or on a flank, and I hope this happens more when Rioli returns. He gives us a lot more flexibility.

We have a good list, but not a great list. I think we need to be ruthless in the next few seasons, which will involve some players such as Redden and Gaff being tapped on the shoulder.
Redden is 30 and Gaff the same.

Redden may suit the Crows as a mature bigger mid to help transition in the kids.

Gaff would get a 2nd rounder this year at least.

Ruscoe at the Pies is playing well.
 

sdb4884

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2004
9,933
1,103
Perth
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Best that Hurn And JK finish up sadly. Good to go out when they can still play decent football then possibly next season where they fall of the cliff.

I really don't understand why Witherden isn't playing we lack good kicks out of our backline, I realise he has had a couple of stinkers mainly down to his man defending but he'll get better with time. Certainly should be in the 22 ahead of Cole & Nelson.

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Get_The_Gaff

Club Legend
Apr 4, 2021
1,131
2,566
AFL Club
West Coast
Redden is 30 and Gaff the same.

Redden may suit the Crows as a mature bigger mid to help transition in the kids.

Gaff would get a 2nd rounder this year at least.

Ruscoe at the Pies is playing well.
Unfortunately for redden he is in a long line of slow plodder mids we have who get cut to ribbons on transition .

Our midfield pace came from shuey ( perma injured ) yeo ( hasn’t the same pace after OP ) and natanui .

Sheed slow as buggery , gaff has 1 gear , Kelly is better but not quick .

O'Neill shows in the wafl he can break away from contests , chase , tackle and win meaningful clearances . But he get almost no midfield time at afl level .

Brander even with his faults is quick , has a big tank and is prepared to take the game on .

Simpson and the match committee just refuse to not play the old guard .

As people have said we played better before the seniors came back from injury.
 

sdb4884

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2004
9,933
1,103
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
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Man Utd, Perth Glory.
Im still bemused by Simmos secret new deal last summer what warranted it? I doubt there is an out clause? Basically it means he has two years minimum before he could be sacked and that could mean 5 years of failure for our club.

Surely he must realise a rebuild of sorts is in order which would give him some safety although I know we don't want to bottom out.



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Cuzz09

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2004
28,053
15,205
Adel - SA - Aust - Earth
AFL Club
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Norwood & Liverpool.
That's just over 2 goals a game. Not a great average for a spearhead. The last three seasons have been around the same mark,

I love JK as a player, and he's been tremendous for us over a long time, but to be a real premiership threat we need our number one forward to average more goals per game than that. Especially as Jack Darling is only averaging 1.8 goals a game this year...
Thats 36 goals playing this sh*t style of gameplan.

I've got no doubt that next year if we improve the game style that both JK and JD can kick 50+ if the coaches change things.



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Trav22

Team Captain
Oct 20, 2013
534
841
AFL Club
West Coast
Unfortunately for redden he is in a long line of slow plodder mids we have who get cut to ribbons on transition .

Our midfield pace came from shuey ( perma injured ) yeo ( hasn’t the same pace after OP ) and natanui .

Sheed slow as buggery , gaff has 1 gear , Kelly is better but not quick .

O'Neill shows in the wafl he can break away from contests , chase , tackle and win meaningful clearances . But he get almost no midfield time at afl level .

Brander even with his faults is quick , has a big tank and is prepared to take the game on .

Simpson and the match committee just refuse to not play the old guard .

As people have said we played better before the seniors came back from injury.
Kelly not quick but Brander is 🤔
Rightio mate
 

Schtinker

Senior List
Aug 11, 2012
196
241
AFL Club
West Coast
Doesn't really matter who we draft, with this game plan we won't do jack.

How many players in this draft, with good qualities in positions we require, can we turn into Half Back Flankers?
 
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