List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. 2021 Edition

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Keys

Looking for a cloud to yell at
Oct 11, 2006
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Follow link below for contract status of all current players

 

ArdentEagle

Old enough to know better, too drunk to try.
Feb 12, 2008
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Didn't Rotham finish right up the top for effective disposals and marks. (Not contested granted, but he's not a slouch)
I think he's worth keeping and will grow as the team rebounds. Johnson late improvement makes him worth keeping.

Not a popular opinion I'm guessing but XON I don't see have many stand out AFL traits as a mid. (which is what we need)
 

ziad

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2009
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No other inputs on Johnson, West or Collins. I personally have a view that Johnson will be lucky to stay as a rookie but his outlook was not mentioned.
O’Neill is contracted for 2022.

I did not see the improvement in Rotham this year like yourself and what feels like the majority of posters.

Help me on what attributes Rotham brings. He is not strong overhead. He does not have quick closing speed. His lollipop kicks lack penetration. He delivers little run and carry out of defence.

Is it poor development and coaching or is it he not going to get much better? I liked the pick in his draft year and in hindsight I was probably seduced with his one spectacular and brilliant mark in the carnival thinking he was better overhead than he has shown. He has been on the list for 5 years. I am seeing other R2 picks from his cohort in Sean Darcy, William Drew and Shai Bolton showing continued development that appears to have stalled with Rotham.

I hope I’m wrong. Maybe the damn awful defensive control out of defence has had a more detrimental impact on stifling player development than I think.

FWIW - I would send Johnson to the rookie list before Rotham.

When we took 2 in the mid season draft, it feels like we may have already completed most of this year’s rookie draft. It will be interesting with our NGA prospects as they look solid but not much wow factor. I would like to see Farmef and Lawson picked up as Cat B even if it is to just improve the Beagles list. The last 2 WAFL games were horrid.
Rotham is interesting, he is taller and hase some pace and does some good jobs. But you point out and perhaps emphasise some short fallings. He also seems to have three brain fades per game and they generally cost goals - and often games. Foley looks a much more promisiing and stable replacement.
 

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Obeanie1

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Jul 26, 2007
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Backended. He now heads into a few years of insane wages.
But the average isn't insane at all is it?

He took a pay cut early, gets paid more later. That is how you balance the books. Gaff and Gov's come down, Kelly's goes up.

So how exactly is that cap killing? It is cap management.

And as I keep posting and you keep ignoring in 2-3 years we have players on huge money either retiring or will be getting significant cuts due to their age.

Nic will be retired in 3 years as will Shuey, those two would add up to $1.3m p.a.

JK and Hurn in 12 months, what another $6-700k added together?

Sheppard and Cripps in 2 years, that would be another $3-400k minimum.

That's $2.5m freed up in 2-3 years. 2023-24 Do the math.

In another 3 years Kelly's contract is also done, been here two years already.
 

bzparkes

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But the average isn't insane at all is it?

He took a pay cut early, gets paid more later. That is how you balance the books. Gaff and Gov's come down, Kelly's goes up.

So how exactly is that cap killing? It is cap management.

And as I keep posting and you keep ignoring in 2-3 years we have players on huge money either retiring or will be getting significant cuts due to their age.

Nic will be retired in 3 years as will Shuey, those two would add up to $1.3m p.a.

JK and Hurn in 12 months, what another $6-700k added together?

Sheppard and Cripps in 2 years, that would be another $3-400k .

That's $2.5m freed up in 2-3 years. 2023-24 Do the math.

In another 3 years Kelly's contract is also done, been here two years already.
I think we can all deduce by his 'inside info' that he's just full of hot air.

Probably not worth wasting your brain power on to be honest.
 

GoEaglesGoSGIO

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 19, 2020
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But the average isn't insane at all is it?

He took a pay cut early, gets paid more later. That is how you balance the books. Gaff and Gov's come down, Kelly's goes up.

So how exactly is that cap killing? It is cap management.

And as I keep posting and you keep ignoring in 2-3 years we have players on huge money either retiring or will be getting significant cuts due to their age.

Nic will be retired in 3 years as will Shuey, those two would add up to $1.3m p.a.

JK and Hurn in 12 months, what another $6-700k added together?

Sheppard and Cripps in 2 years, that would be another $3-400k minimum.

That's $2.5m freed up in 2-3 years. 2023-24 Do the math.

In another 3 years Kelly's contract is also done, been here two years already.
Kelly is a 500k per year player at best based on output and importance to our team. He isnt worthy of highest paid player at all

JK and Hurn will be getting nowhere near that.

I do not think Nic will retire in 3 years at all. We have different ideas of who is leaving when.

Cap management is there. Its why no one big is leaving like Sydney/Collingwood have had. Im discussing poaching a free agent or a player from another team only. We dont have money to do that is what I mean.

You are putting words into my mouth that I didnt say. A typical trait here it seems
 

El_ahrairah

Family, Fitness, Froths.
Oct 12, 2010
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Kelly is a 500k per year player at best based on output and importance to our team. He isnt worthy of highest paid player at all

JK and Hurn will be getting nowhere near that.

I do not think Nic will retire in 3 years at all. We have different ideas of who is leaving when.

Cap management is there. Its why no one big is leaving like Sydney/Collingwood have had. Im discussing poaching a free agent or a player from another team only. We dont have money to do that is what I mean.

You are putting words into my mouth that I didnt say. A typical trait here it seems
The AFL average wage is $400k, and you're saying Kelly is barely worth $500k?

Time to log off mate.
 

Into The Black

Team Captain
Aug 16, 2019
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No other inputs on Johnson, West or Collins. I personally have a view that Johnson will be lucky to stay as a rookie but his outlook was not mentioned.
O’Neill is contracted for 2022.

I did not see the improvement in Rotham this year like yourself and what feels like the majority of posters.

Help me on what attributes Rotham brings. He is not strong overhead. He does not have quick closing speed. His lollipop kicks lack penetration. He delivers little run and carry out of defence.

Is it poor development and coaching or is it he not going to get much better? I liked the pick in his draft year and in hindsight I was probably seduced with his one spectacular and brilliant mark in the carnival thinking he was better overhead than he has shown. He has been on the list for 5 years. I am seeing other R2 picks from his cohort in Sean Darcy, William Drew and Shai Bolton showing continued development that appears to have stalled with Rotham.

I hope I’m wrong. Maybe the damn awful defensive control out of defence has had a more detrimental impact on stifling player development than I think.

FWIW - I would send Johnson to the rookie list before Rotham.

When we took 2 in the mid season draft, it feels like we may have already completed most of this year’s rookie draft. It will be interesting with our NGA prospects as they look solid but not much wow factor. I would like to see Farmef and Lawson picked up as Cat B even if it is to just improve the Beagles list. The last 2 WAFL games were horrid.
The first bolded bit, we must be looking at different players ? The second, I completely agree. Woeful our game plan ball movement.
 

dkalphy

Team Captain
Sep 17, 2017
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I know Hartlett is coming wce but i've always liked his game. Probably is too young for Geelong though so not sure where he'll sign.
 

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Eastcoasteagle

Club Legend
Oct 20, 2017
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Looking at Browne's colts stats he's gone 30+ and kicked at least one goal in each of last five games. What's the knock that has him not really rated a first-round? Must be pace or skills
With Van Rooyen averaging almost 4 goals per game in colts, why is he not rated inside top 20?
How worried are we by Johnson's three league games and his rd18 ressies game. In any of these games did he get injured, have little TOG, not play a relevant role, or have a case of the Geelong virus?
View attachment 1235158
Browne, I'm not really sure why others power ratings barely feature him. I think he has good skills and looks like a great runner, personally I've got him 18-25 mark. Other draft watchers are mostly out of Vic, and do tend to have a slight bias for Vic players (as they get to see a more of them) pre the championships, and once the dust has settled on that they can place them accordingly. I think it's just a case of limited exposure, but seeing his stats all year and seeing him play - he's quality and I'd love him at WCE.
I recently did a top 20 and Van Rooyen sat at 20, just ahead of Bazzo and only because he can play both ends (looks better fwd). If JVR was 4-6cm taller, I think he'd be almost top 5 in the draft, at 194cm he's at a bit of an awkward height (but he could still grow) and is 3cm on Darling. Personally I'd prefer JVR to Amiss, purely for the way they play. Amiss is a lead up fwd, rarely seen him take a contested mark whilst JVR can do both.

MJ - from memory he's league game earlier in the year Bond said he was carrying a quad injury and don't think he played on ball. His recent reserves form looks really good, I'm not concerned at all. He's hit form late in the year and looking good.
 

dkalphy

Team Captain
Sep 17, 2017
545
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The Ainsworth selection absolutely baffles me. I really want to know the discussions made when we select players. We're such a hit and miss recruiting team.

What did Ainsworth have in under 18's? And wasn't he a top age player, so he was 19? Like he's ball drop is the equivalent of a Ben Simmons basketball jumpshot, takes about 5 seconds for ball to get to boot. Has no penetration on he's kick, not physical enough, is he an elite runner?
 

bzparkes

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2006
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Cap management is there. Its why no one big is leaving like Sydney/Collingwood have had. Im discussing poaching a free agent or a player from another team only. We dont have money to do that is what I mean.
For someone 'in the know' you have seemingly forgotten the well-publicised articles and reports around WCE players taking a 7% paycut due to the club promising not to chase high-profile free agents, yet you're harping on here about the club not having money to poach players from other clubs...

At least keep your argument consistent.
 

The_Gambler

Club Legend
Jun 28, 2009
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Carbine Chaos

Ainsworth #33
Apr 1, 2009
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I understand people criticising Rotham for some of his work this year, but I think it's more indicative of our current failings in developing our young players. He has great scope to become a running defender in the early days Schofield mould and it would be grand if we could stop destroying him with the chip chip, softly softly game plan we've become accustomed to. He should be given a license to run next year.

Shifting him to the rookie list would be foolish. I doubt there's any legs to it.
 

Monocle

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
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The harsh reality with list management is that the AFL have made it mandatory to use three live picks, although a rookie elevation counts as a live pick.

Consequently when there are only a few retirements or requests for a trade, then there is little margin for list movement.
Sometimes it simply comes down to the luck of the draw, as to when you become out of contract as to who gets cut.

I think we already know that new main list spots are are going to be tight this year with JK and Bunga playing on.

Our list badly needs an influx of some quality young kids but you can’t have that with out bidding other players goodbye.

IMO, because we have cashed in draft capital for established players the last few years, it’s now become imperative that we start the refresh in earnest, as there are some alarming holes starting to appear in our lists demographics.
We need to draft at least two players every year for the next three years that become - 2025 and onwards best 22 and history tells us that’s not an easy thing to do, nailing two picks per draft that have both list longevity and best 22 capability.

Interesting times ahead.
 
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KERRPOW

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Jul 28, 2008
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Port delisted hamish hartlett.

Hinkley cited that he doesnt believe hartletts body can hold up to the rigours of AFL.

How many times has hurns body broken down during gameday the last 2 years?
 

The_Gambler

Club Legend
Jun 28, 2009
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Our f’ed salary cap perhaps?
Kelly is a 500k per year player at best based on output and importance to our team. He isnt worthy of highest paid player at all

JK and Hurn will be getting nowhere near that.

I do not think Nic will retire in 3 years at all. We have different ideas of who is leaving when.

Cap management is there. Its why no one big is leaving like Sydney/Collingwood have had. Im discussing poaching a free agent or a player from another team only. We dont have money to do that is what I mean.

You are putting words into my mouth that I didnt say. A typical trait here it seems
spot on. It’s why we have given low ball offers to redden And vardy, cut our experienced midfield depth in hutchings and ah chee, and haven’t signed Duggan as we are juggling money. If rotham, brander, O’Neill were any good they would be poached, because if they stay they will not be on contracts befitting guys who have been on a list 4-5 years.

plus we probably budgeted for Hurn and/or Kennedy to be retiring
 
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