List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2021 offseason edition

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So the 2021 season is officially done and dusted.

It’s time now to fully turn our attention to the off season and what we can do through the trade period/draft to chase down Melbourne in 2022.

List and personnel changes have already been made and I’ll update this OP as and when any further changes are made.

As it stands these are our official list changes :

Out -
• Venables (R) - retired
• Vardy - retired
• Hutchings (R) - delisted
• Ah Chee (R) - delisted
• Ainsworth - delisted
• Johnson - delisted
• Collins (R) - delisted
• Brander - cluster*
• Cameron - retired/delisted not that it was officially acknowledged by the club
• Sheppard - retired

Inactive listed -
• Cole
• Chesser

In -
• Petrevski-Seton - traded for pick 52
• Chesser - Pick 14
• Hough - Pick 31
• Bazzo - Pick 37
• Williams (Jack) - Pick 57
• Clark - Pick 62
• Dixon - SSP
• Joyce - SSP
• Strnadica - SSP
• Naish - SSP

Players on main list - 37 (Including 2 inactive)
Players on rookie list - 7

Future trade picks :
In - Port Adelaide future 2nd
Out - Future 4th

Assistant Coaches :
• Out - Graham, Hickmott
• In - Schofield (Strategy and Stoppage), Knights (Midfield), Wiley (WAFL coach), Brennan (development)

Link to contract status of all players -

 
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Jan 13, 2013
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This mob mentality is irritating about our priority is an inside bull . We have 3 . Nic Nat , Yeo , Kelly. Redden Shuey and Sheed can also step up . How many of those have speedy outside run ? So leg speed and precise kicking had to be a priority to move it quick once our bulls get it out .
Our team was stuck in its back half all year . Our best part of our game was the centre bounce . We couldn't keep it in our fwd half and we couldn't run it out of our defensive half .
Players who can take the game on from d50 , wing were our needs . Good marking big men at both ends helps as well .
Kelly's not an inside bull imo, he's more damaging as a balanced mid who plays mainly on the outside.
Nic Nat is our ruckman and is likely coming into his last couple of seasons. Redden and Shuey are both old/injured/always getting injured.
The fact that we are near the very bottom of the league in most contested stats (and our sudden improvement in this area at the end of 2018 was what helped us win the premiership) indicates that we could probably do with an inside bull or two, nevermind that our current players in this role are getting on in age.

Our team was stuck in the half back all year because they have been coached to stop, hold up play and look sideways or backwards for a target to keep possession, it had nothing to do with the players that were on the park. The very few times we chose to take the game on this year there was no issue with ball movement out of our backline at all.
 
Nov 15, 2013
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BOND 007 is that rumour true about Dittmar being a train on with us?

I agree RE Chesser vs Sinn, Chesser will be awesome for us.
I love Dittmars game . Turf as nails and probably cos he reminds me of Chris Mainwaring.
 

FKASC

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After watching all the vids of Chesser I can find, I think Brad Johnson said it best with his comparison to Ryan Griffen.
Seems apt I think.
The Seedsman comparison sucks (not that he’s a bad player), but really it’s hard to imagine him being that outside given he’s almost already more solidly built than the Seed.
 

3agles87

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For all of those bemoaning Freo’s constant winning of the draft:

1. Freo picked Erasmus, a guy who reportedly was telling clubs he wanted to stay in WA but was not even smart enough to respond to the Eagles about a spot in the academy. Chesser left home four years ago to succeed at football and education, and was reportedly a late first rounder to early second rounder despite having not played footy for two years.
2. Freo take Johnson, the Subiaco player struggling with the stress of having to wait overnight to get picked up. We picked up Clarke, the highly rated junior Subiaco player who persevered for seven years, turned himself into a contested beast and one of the best players in the WAFL.
3. Freo take Amiss, a guy who kicks tonnes of goals all year, but kicks zero goals in two finals. It won’t matter at Freo cause they dont make finals anyway. We take a slightly less smooth player in Williams, who kicks plenty of goals and actually kicks goals in finals while balancing it all with taking ruck knocks.

I say ROB stole Bells feather.





* may or may not be revisionist thinking from my draft day thoughts.
 
Sep 12, 2013
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Don't expect WC to suddenly become Sydney circa 2005 - but Simmo's no fool
I agree Simmo is no fool but the team and game style have made him look quite foolish at times in the last 2 years. Something is not gelling and let’s hope it sorts itself out over the next 10 months
 

Bacchus

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The Seedsman comparison sucks (not that he’s a bad player), but really it’s hard to imagine him being that outside given he’s almost already more solidly built than the Seed.
I don’t like and disagree with the Seedsman comparison. Chesser is a much more solid build as you say. Seedsman comes across to me as the finisher, the ’cherry’ on top of the cake type player. We need ‘cake’ type players not the cherry on top type players. I hope Chesser is and becomes more a ‘cake’ type player because our ‘cake’ looks like it is about to crumble and fall apart.
I like the Bailey Smith comparison better. No comment about respective characters.
 
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The_Gambler

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So you are saying Chesser is the better player? Fair enough. The recruiting team seem to think so. He may be, time will tell. On the face of it, from my admittedly superficial exposure, Johnson is the better player, perhaps more rounded, a key rather than role playing midfielder. This was the opinion of most/all phantom drafts, and Fremantle were pretty keen to snap up Johnson when he fell into their lap. Most pre-draft experts did not agree with your position, they may be wrong, we will see.

no idea who is better or who will be better, but suggesting why recruiters may see a higher potential for CC. Being more well rounded at u’18s does mean better at AFL. Generally you need some real strengths at AFL, but not always.

I don’t see MJ being an inside player at AFL. I see CC being a state 200m runner and penetrating kick causing more problems as an outside mid. He also has 10kg on MJ already, which is equivalent of 2 preseasons. CC should play 5-10 games this year. I can’t see MJ being body ready for 1-2 years. I’m not unhappy with this pick. Bringing in SPS and Clark justifies our selection more
 

Bacchus

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For all of those bemoaning Freo’s constant winning of the draft:

1. Freo picked Erasmus, a guy who reportedly was telling clubs he wanted to stay in WA but was not even smart enough to respond to the Eagles about a spot in the academy. Chesser left home four years ago to succeed at football and education, and was reportedly a late first rounder to early second rounder despite having not played footy for two years.
2. Freo take Johnson, the Subiaco player struggling with the stress of having to wait overnight to get picked up. We picked up Clarke, the highly rated junior Subiaco player who persevered for seven years, turned himself into a contested beast and one of the best players in the WAFL.
3. Freo take Amiss, a guy who kicks tonnes of goals all year, but kicks zero goals in two finals. It won’t matter at Freo cause they dont make finals anyway. We take a slightly less smooth player in Williams, who kicks plenty of goals and actually kicks goals in finals while balancing it all with taking ruck knocks.

I say ROB stole Bells feather.





* may or may not be revisionist thinking from my draft day thoughts.
Respectfully, I disagree with most of your points in the above post. On the face of it, time will prove it one way or the other, Fremantle absolutely nailed the draft. Regarding Erasmus and the emails I don’t know enough about the details so I don’t want to comment. Very understandable that Johnson would be disappointed about not being selected on the first day, I don’t think it reflects badly on his character.

Fremantle did have a very strong draft hand. How they got GC’s pick 21 is mind boggling. No wonder Gold Coast is such a basket case. I do tentatively agree with you on Williams vs Amiss, I think their value and potential is much closer than draft position indicates. I think we may have had a big win with Williams.
 
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Bacchus

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no idea who is better or who will be better, but suggesting why recruiters may see a higher potential for CC. Being more well rounded at u’18s does mean better at AFL. Generally you need some real strengths at AFL, but not always.

I don’t see MJ being an inside player at AFL. I see CC being a state 200m runner and penetrating kick causing more problems as an outside mid. He also has 10kg on MJ already, which is equivalent of 2 preseasons. CC should play 5-10 games this year. I can’t see MJ being body ready for 1-2 years. I’m not unhappy with this pick. Bringing in SPS and Clark justifies our selection more
I think you are factually wrong about the weight difference. Chesser listed at 83kg and Johnson 81kg. I would not be surprised to see Johnson debut next year. Being an athletics champion often does not necessarily translate to football. I have seen many athletic guns not reach the same level at football. Masten is one well known recent example. I am not saying that this will be the case with Chesser, just that athletic capacity does not guarantee the same football prowess. I can see MJ being an inside player in the AFL in time.
 
Sep 12, 2013
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This mob mentality is irritating about our priority is an inside bull . We have 3 . Nic Nat , Yeo , Kelly. Redden Shuey and Sheed can also step up . How many of those have speedy outside run ? So leg speed and precise kicking had to be a priority to move it quick once our bulls get it out .
Our team was stuck in its back half all year . Our best part of our game was the centre bounce . We couldn't keep it in our fwd half and we couldn't run it out of our defensive half .
Players who can take the game on from d50 , wing were our needs . Good marking big men at both ends helps as well .
I’ve been watching a different Kelly and Sheed if you define them as bulls!!!!
 

ziad

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May 2, 2009
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This mob mentality is irritating about our priority is an inside bull . We have 3 . Nic Nat , Yeo , Kelly. Redden Shuey and Sheed can also step up . How many of those have speedy outside run ? So leg speed and precise kicking had to be a priority to move it quick once our bulls get it out .
Our team was stuck in its back half all year . Our best part of our game was the centre bounce . We couldn't keep it in our fwd half and we couldn't run it out of our defensive half .
Players who can take the game on from d50 , wing were our needs . Good marking big men at both ends helps as well .
You missed west and clark. certainly not outside. Chesser is soon to be heavier than them anyway (Nic excluded)
 

ziad

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May 2, 2009
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I think you are factually wrong about the weight difference. Chesser listed at 83kg and Johnson 81kg. I would not be surprised to see Johnson debut next year. Being an athletics champion often does not necessarily translate to football. I have seen many athletic guns not reach the same level at football. Masten is one well known recent example. I am not saying that this will be the case with Chesser, just that athletic capacity does not guarantee the same football prowess. I can see MJ being an inside player in the AFL in time.
His onfield movement, pace and evasion does though. (with skill and decision making) You cannot give a draft hourse pace.
 

mattyc75

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Huh? Think you misunderstood my post. I wanted Dittmar as I know his quality, I was stating if he wasn't left as somebody had taken him already. I'd pass on taking someone else.
Thats what i thought you meant..kades a bit touchy

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Wce17

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Its not about the future 4th its about the awareness or lack of awareness of our recruitment department .

It is the club as a whole having dropped the ball on multiple occasions

Without someone like Rawlings or glass to steer the ship the old nuffies or nisbetts cooked son are making stupid mistakes that are costing us small things that collectively could cost us a future success or even a flag

1. Kelly trade - we had a guy only coming to us and we paid way overs . It cost us good young draftees i

2 . NGA . We failed to list Erasmus and arthur . It didn't cost us with Erasmus but we could have had Arthur for cheap

3 6 year deals ? They don't help the club at all that 4 now with GOV , gaff , Kelly and barrass

4 Harry edward had a different guernsey. I mean WTF this is a massive fu** up for a professional organisation

5 Chesser - we could have - drafted Johnson or got at least another future 2nd as he wasn't meant to go until mid 20s

6 Chessers jumper being 3 sizes too big . WTF

7 Using a future 4th to trade up for Clark?

We have seriously lost control of this club and heads need to roll

Are you okay? you've lost your head
 

The_Gambler

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I think you are factually wrong about the weight difference. Chesser listed at 83kg and Johnson 81kg. I would not be surprised to see Johnson debut next year. Being an athletics champion often does not necessarily translate to football. I have seen many athletic guns not reach the same level at football. Masten is one well known recent example. I am not saying that this will be the case with Chesser, just that athletic capacity does not guarantee the same football prowess. I can see MJ being an inside player in the AFL in time.

Chesser with no football this year essentially is more physically developed regardless owing to an entire year in the gym and training without competition. He is far more solid than MJ. 200m sprinting physiology dictates that. MJ is quick though, sun 3s 20m is impressive.

although athletics doesn’t translate to being a good footballer, a footballer with athletic prowess will beat one without it every time. CC is a footballer. Again I’m not saying one is better, but CC has some serious potentially elite qualities

masten had the brain and heart of a chicken, and was 179 cm
 
Sep 25, 2007
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masten had the brain and heart of a chicken, and was 179 cm


I'm sure there are better ways to describe a 200 game premiership player.

You could point out he's not a junkie or alcoholic that wrecked havoc on the club. Could point out that he set the standard on the track and for a team that, since his retirement, has potentially not been the most professional on that front, a player of his drive would be appreciated.

Could point out that he played the role he was given by the club and played it well enough that the team had the ultimate success. This is probably an important aspect given recent mumblings about the discontent within the playing group.

Could point to his willingness to work despite physical limitations and change his game from juniors to have a ten+ year career at the elite level.

Could also just not be so disrespectful and wrong? I don't think his heart was ever questioned.
 

Mattman93

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Tackling is a teachable skill - it's a matter of having the right teachers & the will to want to teach it.

Enter Schofield & Knights

I appreciate the fact that there has probably been a mindset change at WCE in this regard, reflected in the recent personnel additions. Nevertheless, I find myself wondering whether the whole 'tackling is a teachable skill' thing is a bit of a fallacy that we've fallen prone to.

It's obviously true to some degree, but it seems evident time and time again that the really good contested players are the ones with a genuine thirst for physicality, a certain rabidity, that goes beyond anything teachable. I guess I'm saying that being really effective at the brute contest stuff is not so much a teachable skill but a much more deeply ingrained disposition. Almost akin to a character trait.

No question that aspect of a player's game can be improved. But I feel like players either have that hot-bloodedness or they don't, and rarely do you see a player drafted shift from one category to the other. It seems as though WCE constantly select players who are lacking in that regard, on the assumption that a base of skill, endurance, and flexibility is more important; the brute stuff can be taught. But it never actually eventuates.

In that respect, I guess a lot of how I feel about this draft hinges on where Chesser and Hough fit into that schema. Does their contested ability come second to their speed, size, and versatility? Or are they seen as having genuine innate ball-winning skillsets?

Excuse my pessimism, just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
 

Mattman93

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Tidy work BOND 007.

I'll be the first to put my hand up and say that I probably fell too easily for the midfield names that were being pumped up by the commentariat and allowed my comparative ignorance of the players we took with earlier selections to cloud my initial response.

After taking some time to gain further knowledge, I've completely turned that opinion around and now believe that some inspired choices have been made from the picks that were available.

Delivered upon both immediate need and future succession planning whilst gaining more presence inside the top 40 next year.


Can't ask for much more from a draft than that. :whitecheck::whitecheck::whitecheck:

You seem pretty well-connected (eg, I know you've previously been on speaking terms from some Brisbane people). Any word from people in AFL/recruiting circles about our picks that has helped assuage you disappointment? Asking because I feel in need or reassurance myself, I guess.
 
Oct 17, 2017
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Chesser with no football this year essentially is more physically developed regardless owing to an entire year in the gym and training without competition. He is far more solid than MJ. 200m sprinting physiology dictates that. MJ is quick though, sun 3s 20m is impressive.

although athletics doesn’t translate to being a good footballer, a footballer with athletic prowess will beat one without it every time. CC is a footballer. Again I’m not saying one is better, but CC has some serious potentially elite qualities

masten had the brain and heart of a chicken, and was 179 cm
Would be keen to see these stats from the combine, anyone have them?
 

Into The Black

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I've said this before. But can this forum have a christmas break or something. Posters need a recharge before entering into the new season. It's not healthy to be on here 24/7. Go be with your family or start a family and come back at the start of the year.

First to four year posters: Return 22/12/21
Seniors (5 years +): Return 6/1/22
You really deserve the QS MEDAL,You have my vote.
 
Oct 17, 2017
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I appreciate the fact that there has probably been a mindset change at WCE in this regard, reflected in the recent personnel additions. Nevertheless, I find myself wondering whether the whole 'tackling is a teachable skill' thing is a bit of a fallacy that we've fallen prone to.

It's obviously true to some degree, but it seems evident time and time again that the really good contested players are the ones with a genuine thirst for physicality, a certain rabidity, that goes beyond anything teachable. I guess I'm saying that being really effective at the brute contest stuff is not so much a teachable skill but a much more deeply ingrained disposition. Almost akin to a character trait.

No question that aspect of a player's game can be improved. But I feel like players either have that hot-bloodedness or they don't, and rarely do you see a player drafted shift from one category to the other. It seems as though WCE constantly select players who are lacking in that regard, on the assumption that a base of skill, endurance, and flexibility is more important; the brute stuff can be taught. But it never actually eventuates.

In that respect, I guess a lot of how I feel about this draft hinges on where Chesser and Hough fit into that schema. Does their contested ability come second to their speed, size, and versatility? Or are they seen as having genuine innate ball-winning skillsets?

Excuse my pessimism, just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
Is he though? Ask BOND 007 if Dittmar is a train on. :think:
 
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