List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. Other Assorted Crap. 2020 Edition

[Into The Black]

They’re A graders on paper but they don’t play like it consistently. I think all of our mids are a rung below the best in the comp, and then guys like Sheed, Redden and even Gaff I think are a rung below them.

I think our side averaged out is probably the best in the comp, which makes our midfield players look more elite than they are.

eg I reckon if Essendon had our defence and forwardline, we’d be saying how stacked a midfield of Merrett, Shiel, Heppell, Zaharakis, McGrath and Smith is.

I'd have Shuey in the top 3-5 mids in the comp. More than once he has won a game off his own boot and by igniting the team. Absolute gun imo.

 

[boondy]

They’re A graders on paper but they don’t play like it consistently. I think all of our mids are a rung below the best in the comp, and then guys like Sheed, Redden and even Gaff I think are a rung below them.

I think our side averaged out is probably the best in the comp, which makes our midfield players look more elite than they are.

eg I reckon if Essendon had our defence and forwardline, we’d be saying how stacked a midfield of Merrett, Shiel, Heppell, Zaharakis, McGrath and Smith is.

I didnt think Judd Cousins Kerr were any good iether .
Jokes .

 

[Dark Sharks]

I agree with Spacey.

Yeo is our best mid IMO, he holds his own with the elite mids in the comp without quite being one himself.

Shuey isn't one of the best either, despite his heroics for our club over the years. Just isn't at that level.

Gaff, Sheed and Redden obviously not.

Kelly it remains to be seen, I think he's somewhere between the pack and Shuey, but with his goal kicking strings it might be more between Shuey and Yeo.



I think other than Redden they all have the ability to go up another level as well.

 

[boondy]

I agree with Spacey.

Yeo is our best mid IMO, he holds his own with the elite mids in the comp without quite being one himself.

Shuey isn't one of the best either, despite his heroics for our club over the years. Just isn't at that level.

Gaff, Sheed and Redden obviously not.

Kelly it remains to be seen, I think he's somewhere between the pack and Shuey, but with his goal kicking strings it might be more between Shuey and Yeo.



I think other than Redden they all have the ability go up another level as well.

Have to agree
Yeo does well vs Fyfe and looks like a million bucks .
Yeo gets flogged vs Dangerfield and looks a lot cheaper .

 

[FKASC]

I agree with Spacey.

Yeo is our best mid IMO, he holds his own with the elite mids in the comp without quite being one himself.

Shuey isn't one of the best either, despite his heroics for our club over the years. Just isn't at that level.

Gaff, Sheed and Redden obviously not.

Kelly it remains to be seen, I think he's somewhere between the pack and Shuey, but with his goal kicking strings it might be more between Shuey and Yeo.



I think other than Redden they all have the ability to go up another level as well.

I'd have Shuey in the top 3-5 mids in the comp. More than once he has won a game off his own boot and by igniting the team. Absolute gun imo.

Have to agree
Yeo does well vs Fyfe and looks like a million bucks .
Yeo gets flogged vs Dangerfield and looks a lot cheaper .

I think Yeo and Shuey’s best is absolutely elite but their best doesn’t happen consistently enough. Compare to a Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Cripps, Martin, Fyfe etc

 

[Obeanie1]

I was chatting to someone who knows Robertson very well, is a huge eagles fan,but also very loyal,if he settles in a brissie he may well stay.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Well that sounds familiar unfortunately.

 

[Ishmael_]

They’re A graders on paper but they don’t play like it consistently. I think all of our mids are a rung below the best in the comp, and then guys like Sheed, Redden and even Gaff I think are a rung below them.

I think our side averaged out is probably the best in the comp, which makes our midfield players look more elite than they are.

eg I reckon if Essendon had our defence and forwardline, we’d be saying how stacked a midfield of Merrett, Shiel, Heppell, Zaharakis, McGrath and Smith is.

Your comparison with Essendon is interesting because that does look like a half-decent midfield on paper, but I'd argue their reputations are outsized by the club they play for and their balance is a bit off - their quick players don't have the size to play inside and players like Shiel don't have great foot skills. And consistency aside, I'd argue that none of those players has the top-flight game that Yeo/Shuey/Kelly have.

Conversely, Richmond's midfield doesn't look great on paper and their best midfielder often plays hhf/ff, likewise, Geelong's midfield didn't exactly bat deep last year even with Kelly and yet they both dominated. Collingwood's looked deeper than anybody's and didn't do much.

I think ultimately it comes down to structure and game-plan across the ground. West Coast midfield is never going to put up numbers like Adelaide's or WBs.

But Naitanui, Yeo, Shuey and Kelly are as good a top four as there is in the AFL. And Gaff, Sheed, Redden round out an inarguably deep midfield. With expansion and talent dilution, that's about as good as it gets unless you're GWS.

 

[Obeanie1]

I'd have Shuey in the top 3-5 mids in the comp. More than once he has won a game off his own boot and by igniting the team. Absolute gun imo.

Shuey if he's had a full preseason and gets to round 1 fit and fresh he would be a Brownlow smokie. He now has the status where the umps will notice him, Kelly and Yeo get the tags and the captiancy lifts his all round game impact. He can kick a goal too and could spend time rotating forward with Sheed.

Would love to see Sheed, Kelly, Yeo and Shuey all rotate through a forward flank. Some serious goal kicking mids there people.

 

[Obeanie1]

Your comparison with Essendon is interesting because that does look like a half-decent midfield on paper, but I'd argue their reputations are outsized by the club they play for and their balance is a bit off - their quick players don't have the size to play inside and players like Shiel don't have great foot skills. And consistency aside, I'd argue that none of those players has the top-flight game that Yeo/Shuey/Kelly have.

Conversely, Richmond's midfield doesn't look great on paper and their best midfielder often plays hhf/ff, likewise, Geelong's midfield didn't exactly bat deep last year even with Kelly and yet they both dominated. Collingwood's looked deeper than anybody's and didn't do much.

I think ultimately it comes down to structure and game-plan across the ground. West Coast midfield is never going to put up numbers like Adelaide's or WBs.

But Naitanui, Yeo, Shuey and Kelly are as good a top four as there is in the AFL. And Gaff, Sheed, Redden round out an inarguably deep midfield. With expansion and talent dilution, that's about as good as it gets unless you're GWS.

Game plan and structure most definately is a factor.

I keep reading that the Eagles are last or bottom four in groundball gets.

And that Kelly will help address that.

So our current mids are terrible? Or is it maybe we have a very strong marking team and play a kick mark possession game to move the ball forward?

Given our mids are pretty decent Id suggest its our game plan.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

I'd have Shuey in the top 3-5 mids in the comp. More than once he has won a game off his own boot and by igniting the team. Absolute gun imo.

The thing with shuey is he is just as damaging as sidebottom who is kissed on the dick by the vic media . Shuey also has an expolsive inside game to accompany his skills .

Opposition coaches know how good shuey is and why he has been the #1 tag target in the last 5 years .

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Game plan and structure most definately is a factor.

I keep reading that the Eagles are last or bottom four in groundball gets.

And that Kelly will help address that.

So our current mids are terrible? Or is it maybe we have a very strong marking team and play a kick mark possession game to move the ball forward?

Given our mids are pretty decent Id suggest its our game plan.

Its ground ball get differential we are terrible at .
But unlike a richmond or bullies we dont flood all our forward line back on the ball.

Less numbers around the contest means less chance to get the loose ball .

Our defenders holding their structure is important to get the opp to kick long and we can intercept .

Didnt help that masten was allergic to the contest

 

[CM9000]

I think Yeo and Shuey’s best is absolutely elite but their best doesn’t happen consistently enough. Compare to a Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Cripps, Martin, Fyfe etc

I think you're pretty severely underrating our players IMO. Remember, all those players you listed as paragons of consistency travel far less than our own. It's a lot harder to maintain it when you're on a plane every second week.

The key thing for football is to perform when it matters. Shuey literally won a final for us one year, then gave us the best performance in a GF in the modern era the next. That is far more important than winning a Brownlow without playing finals just because the umpires only look at CPs.

 

[bombard]

I think you're pretty severely underrating our players IMO. Remember, all those players you listed as paragons of consistency travel far less than our own. It's a lot harder to maintain it when you're on a plane every second week.

The key thing for football is to perform when it matters. Shuey literally won a final for us one year, then gave us the best performance in a GF in the modern era the next. That is far more important than winning a Brownlow without playing finals just because the umpires only look at CPs.

Nobody can accuse CM9000 of false advertising.

 

[bzparkes]

View attachment 817654

Nobody can accuse CM9000 of false advertising.

Day mode.

Yuck.

 

[LittleGreekGod]

I can't believe that some people are giving a wack to our recruiting staff and the quality of our midfield.
Shuey got tagged every week and still picked up very impressive disposal numbers, performed in big games and won us a premiership.
We traded in Yeo, Kelly, Redden and Jetta. Not a bad haul.
We are currently a contender and have been for some years now, picking up the flag in 2018.
Our comparative stats on ground balls gets are down against other teams because our game plan does not encompass a contested style of play but a possession game based on marking, kicking and skills. We average over 100 marks a game. We, like the Hawks a few years back recruit players to suit that game style.
WCE are one of the most successful clubs of the modern era.
Time for some people to recognize the work the club has done and appreciate just what we have and not what they may perceive as weaknesses.

 

[Keys]

I can't believe that some people are giving a wack to our recruiting staff and the quality of our midfield.
Shuey got tagged every week and still picked up very impressive disposal numbers, performed in big games and won us a premiership.
We traded in Yeo, Kelly, Redden and Jetta. Not a bad haul.
We are currently a contender and have been for some years now, picking up the flag in 2018.
Our comparative stats on ground balls gets are down against other teams because our game plan does not encompass a contested style of play but a possession game based on marking, kicking and skills. We average over 100 marks a game. We, like the Hawks a few years back recruit players to suit that game style.
WCE are one of the most successful clubs of the modern era.
Time for some people to recognize the work the club has done and appreciate just what we have and not what they may perceive as weaknesses.

I understand where you’re coming from as taken in its entirety, our list management which encompasses player retention, trading and drafting gets a tick.

Heading into 2020 we have a very strong list that has been built with only a solitary top 10 draft pick to utilise since 2010 (pick 6 in 2013 which we used to draft Sheed after trading down to 11 in order to get an additional 2nd round pick that enabled us to trade for Yeo)

All but 9 of our list (Hurn, Kennedy, Naitanui, Gaff, Shuey, Darling, McGovern, Schofield, Sheppard) were brought to the club post 2010. So the club has done (very) well structuring a list without the benefit of high draft picks

But........

There’s two areas where we’ve struggled and, admittedly with the benefit of hindsight in some cases, could have performed better -
1) We’ve attempted to draft mids over the last few years to build depth in that area but haven’t really succeeded. Since Sheed in 2013 we’ve brought in the likes of Duggan, Partington, Venables, Ainsworth and X O’Neill with early-ish picks and others with later picks none of whom have yet made a meaningful impact as midfielders for a variety of reasons. In isolation, each of those picks can be defended with the possible exception of Ainsworth but viewed in totality there’s been an inability to unearth a quality mid through the draft - notwithstanding that time is still on the side of some of those players to develop

2) Our use of the rookie draft has been poor, head scratchingly so at times (Burrows). It’s a draft that league wide has a predictably low success rate but we’ve not really given ourselves much of a chance. When you consider that Kelly was well and truly on our radar at the end of 2016 but we choose Gorter instead we haven’t really given ourselves the best chance of success. Often we’ve used the rookie draft as a halfway house for contracted players we didn’t/couldn’t delist, experienced castoffs from other clubs that had low potential to improve or burned them on the likes of Burrows who didn’t even see out his first year.

Admittedly with the acquisition of Edwards, Treacy and MO’neill over the last two years our rookie drafting has improved imo but then we’re considering signing Brady Grey through the SPP. Good honest trier and hard as nails but there’s ample evidence to suggest he’s not quite AFL standard

So yes, we’ve done well but there are areas where we could have been better and it’s not disrespectful to point that out

 

[kerr87]

Have to agree
Yeo does well vs Fyfe and looks like a million bucks .
Yeo gets flogged vs Dangerfield and looks a lot cheaper .

Yeo negates but doesn't damage like the mids he plays on. Needs to be attacking.

 

[FKASC]

I think you're pretty severely underrating our players IMO. Remember, all those players you listed as paragons of consistency travel far less than our own. It's a lot harder to maintain it when you're on a plane every second week.

The key thing for football is to perform when it matters. Shuey literally won a final for us one year, then gave us the best performance in a GF in the modern era the next. That is far more important than winning a Brownlow without playing finals just because the umpires only look at CPs.

I retract my poty nomination

 

[Dark Sharks]

Yeo does well vs Fyfe and looks like a million bucks .
Yeo gets flogged vs Dangerfield and looks a lot cheaper .

I think most people would instantly agreee with this, myself included based on the recent semi final.

But if you look at the raw stats for both players in that game, there's a fair case Yeo still held his own.


Yeo - 25 disposals (13 contested), 4 marks (1 contested), 2 tackles, 3 clearances, 6 score involvements, 435 metres gained, 80 ranking points.

Dangerflog - 18 disposals (14 contested), 6 marks (4 contested), 4 tackles, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 314 metres gained, 85 ranking points.


Those crucial one on one's Dangerfield won in the air against Yeo made it seem like he gave him a bath. Frustrating to watch, but not the whole story.

If Yeo had won one or two of those, which normally i'd back him in to, he'd have taken the chocolates. Played surprisingly meek that game

 

[FKASC]

I think you're pretty severely underrating our players IMO. Remember, all those players you listed as paragons of consistency travel far less than our own. It's a lot harder to maintain it when you're on a plane every second week.

The key thing for football is to perform when it matters. Shuey literally won a final for us one year, then gave us the best performance in a GF in the modern era the next. That is far more important than winning a Brownlow without playing finals just because the umpires only look at CPs.

So you think Shuey and Yeo are on the same level as Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Ablett, Fyfe, etc?

Re: your last paragraph, Shuey has played a couple of absolute ripper finals but played many more finals before them with little impact. Yeo has been kept quiet in most finals he’s played IIRC

also, Fyfe, Dangerfield (at adelaide) and Ablett (at GC) still had to travel just as much as our players

 

[Dark Sharks]

Would love to see Sheed, Kelly, Yeo and Shuey all rotate through a forward flank. Some serious goal kicking mids there people.

That is a very slippery slope my friend

We have history of falling into the trap of playing too many midfielders and hiding them on the forward flank. Simmo has acknowledged this several times.

One of our big changes in 2018 was that we brought in actual forwards (Rioli, Ryan) to play off the flank and not hide a gimp like Sheed/Marsden down there.



This is why, when i read about how Sheed is going to be spending more time forward after coming off a career best season playing more in the guts i cringe.

I like the idea of our mids pushing forward from the wings sure, but playing off the HFF simply hasn't worked for us in the past.

Kelly/Yeo MIGHT be an exception

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

That is a very slippery slope my friend

We have history of falling into the trap of playing too many midfielders and hiding them on the forward flank. Simmo has acknowledged this several times.

One of our big changes in 2018 was that we brought in actual forwards (Rioli, Ryan) to play off the flank and not hide a gimp like Sheed/Marsden down there.



This is why, when i read about how Sheed is going to be spending more time forward after coming off a career best season playing more in the guts i cringe.

I like the idea of our mids pushing forward from the wings sure, but playing off the HFF simply hasn't worked for us in the past.

Kelly/Yeo MIGHT be an exception

I actually think sheed has better forward craft than most of our mids .

Not in the kicking goals from the midfield but in being able to lead into space , take marks and set shots .

He is not the liability you say he is

 

[Into The Black]

So you think Shuey and Yeo are on the same level as Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Ablett, Fyfe, etc?

Re: your last paragraph, Shuey has played a couple of absolute ripper finals but played many more finals before them with little impact. Yeo has been kept quiet in most finals he’s played IIRC

also, Fyfe, Dangerfield (at adelaide) and Ablett (at GC) still had to travel just as much as our players

Shuey in front of Pendles every day of the week. Gaz? pfft. At his peak Ablett was a gun ( who still ran around the back of packs looking for the cheap one) Shuey carried our midfield for years with a hard tag every week. The oppo wasn't going to tag Pridda. Shuey's skill off either side make him one of the most dangerous mids in the comp. Cripps? pulease, so overrated.Good footballer, but not as orgasmic as the commentators would have you believe.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

That is a very slippery slope my friend

We have history of falling into the trap of playing too many midfielders and hiding them on the forward flank. Simmo has acknowledged this several times.

One of our big changes in 2018 was that we brought in actual forwards (Rioli, Ryan) to play off the flank and not hide a gimp like Sheed/Marsden down there.

This is why, when i read about how Sheed is going to be spending more time forward after coming off a career best season playing more in the guts i cringe.

I like the idea of our mids pushing forward from the wings sure, but playing off the HFF simply hasn't worked for us in the past.

Kelly/Yeo MIGHT be an exception

This is true but I would argue (as you note re Kelly/Yeo) that the quality of mids we have now to rotate through a forward flank is a lot better than when we were trying to turn average mids into forwards. That said, the quality of our small/medium forwards is also a lot better too so it may be self defeating anyway. Nice position to be in really.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I actually think sheed has better forward craft than most of our mids .

Not in the kicking goals from the midfield but in being able to lead into space , take marks and set shots .

He is not the liability you say he is

How do you think a bloke as slow as him can lead into space and get separation enough to take all these marks? Might as well chuck Priddis off the HFF

All our forwards, Cripps, Ryan, Rioli, Petch and even Venables are all fast and can get separation on their opponent, i think Sheed would struggle.

He's not alone, i also believe Hutchings, Marsden and Redden have all struggled at times attempting to play the same role.

His inability to play off the HFF led him to being dropped for a chunk of our flag campaign and it was only his performance in the guts which got him a premiership.

Add in Sheeds lackluster pressure and tackling game and it looks even less and less appealing to me.


He knows how to find the goals though, but i think that's due to losing his man around stoppages and being offensive.

His last 18 months playing in the guts have been absolutely outstanding. Why would we change it?