List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. Other Assorted Crap. 2020 Edition

[Topkent]

Looking like 2 picks in national draft

As in you already have 36 senior players?

 

[RookiePick]

It matters depending where you are at list wise and if you are contending.

If you are contending you use the rookie list to provide depth of experienced role players or an aging gun who can actually help the squad win a premiership. You still get the same cap relief but it isnt for 6 kids who may never play.

Better short term investment, lower risk but more predictable.

I was wondering today if this reduction in list size and the rookie lists being used for depth will see more talent at the second level.

Tough on the kids of the next couple of years but maybe good for the WAFL.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

As in you already have 36 senior players?

We currently have 36 including Venables and Rioli, who are both a bit uncertain, and Edwards who has been promoted.

We have two picks but may only use one.

 

[FKASC]

Is it just me that thinks Witherdens kicking could be a bit overrated. I need an extended highlights package of him breaking a game open with his kicking to be that convinced. I've seen the same 4 or 5 kicks and two or three goals which aren't really on the same level as Jetta.

It’s definitely not on the same level as Jetta, but few players’ skills are. It’s more that Witherden is willing to make aggressive decisions out of defence in the same way Jetta was, rather than him having similar skills

 

[Cuzz09]

Yeah Ive seen the same highlights from 2 years ago.

Im sure Vardy has good highlights then too

 

[shooshka]

We currently have 36 including Venables and Rioli, who are both a bit uncertain, and Edwards who has been promoted.

We have two picks but may only use one.

So 'if' we get confirmation that DV and Rioli can go onto the CatB list (and, possibly more unlikely - if that comes through prior to the draft) then we have 2 main-list spots we must fill (after upgrading Edwards)?

So either:
2 draftees
1 draftee and another rookie upgrade
1 draftee and a DFA

My understanding is that SSP and mid-season-draft players are added to the rookie list - so we can leave a spot open for them but it would have to be on the RL (and we have a minimum of 36 on the main list as a requirement still)

 

[Astro7]

I'm confused. So we can't call someone an Ainsworth? I think I missed something.

It was unsolicited Astrology references...Okay, moving right along!


Is Ainsworth as a player THAT bad? Or is it just his Bubba face that people don't warm to?
Given that supporters are always wanting to blood youngsters, it seems a bit unfair or impatient to not stick with him for a bit longer? I realise the football road is littered with young potential that never came good...
He was thrown off the deep end in 2019, probably ahead of time, due to injuries and lack of depth, and had to adjust to the speed and pressure of AFL as he was learning. He was clearly a deer in the headlights at times...but he improved and did some good things, he wasn't ALL bad..kicked a couple of goals in one game, played in a final. Compared to...how many years has AhChee been playing now?

 

[Patron]

Delisted Eagle Alec Waterman says he ‘didn’t get a full crack’ at West Coast, now eyes second AFL chance | The West Australian

So Waterman seems keen for another crack at it. I hope we are as well.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Is Ainsworth as a player THAT bad? Or is it just his Bubba face that people don't warm to?
Given that supporters are always wanting to blood youngsters, it seems a bit unfair or impatient to not stick with him for a bit longer? I realise the football road is littered with young potential that never came good...
He was thrown off the deep end in 2019, probably ahead of time, due to injuries and lack of depth, and had to adjust to the speed and pressure of AFL as he was learning. He was clearly a deer in the headlights at times...but he improved and did some good things, he wasn't ALL bad..kicked a couple of goals in one game, played in a final. Compared to...how many years has AhChee been playing now?

If he were an 18yr old kid in his first season you could overlook a lot of his deficiencies and chalk it down needing development. But Ainsworth is 22, not 18.
Judd had a brownlow medal around his neck a week shy of his 21st birthday! Ok, that's an unfair comparison.

I look forward to being proven wrong and Ainsworth being as important to our structure as RoJo was in our 2006 flag.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Delisted Eagle Alec Waterman says he ‘didn’t get a full crack’ at West Coast, now eyes second AFL chance | The West Australian

So Waterman seems keen for another crack at it. I hope we are as well.

I like the 2nd picture that they used.

 

[Doashuey]

Can we rename this thread trades draft and assorted Ainsworth shitkicking?
How much longer can Ainsworth be debated?
Can we give this overused and unfunny joke a rest?
Delete Ainsworths account.

heck the offseason- this is what happens when the first Test doesnt start until December.

 

[Chris_6678]

Think because we have such low picks there isn't anything to talk about really...

 

[Astro7]

If he were an 18yr old kid in his first season you could overlook a lot of his deficiencies and chalk it down needing development. But Ainsworth is 22, not 18.
Judd had a brownlow medal around his neck a week shy of his 21st birthday! Ok, that's an unfair comparison.

I look forward to being proven wrong and Ainsworth being as important to our structure as RoJo was in our 2006 flag.

You're probably right, but we're stuck with him for a while, so I'd like to see if he does improve before assigning him to the waste-bin of flopped out footballers.
At this stage is he important, is he dangerous, is he threatening to improve, does he have clear raw talent?....No!

Apologies DoaShuey, he was brought back into the spotlight because he was just given a contract extension, which relates to this threads title...but I won't mention Ainsworth again, lets get back to debating other names endlessly...

 

[Dark Sharks]

Brayden gonna learn to kick a drop punt and prove you haters wrong in 2028

 

[Bender_]

Geez never really thought about it before but Brayden has a real Gryan feel to it.

 

[campaigner___]

I really like sam fisher

Sam Fisher

Age

43

Ht

191cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.3

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

220.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.2

3star

. His highlights look good. He's very quick and has a crafty left boot. I wouldn't be mad if we relied on him for emergencies.

 

[Dylan82]

Is Ainsworth as a player THAT bad?

No, he is not.

An unfortunate combination of circumstances has brought us to where we are today:

• underachievement in the past two seasons as a club;
• a midfield lacking supporting depth as the primary cause of that underachievement;
• the opinions that superior midfield players were available for selection when Ainsworth was drafted;
• that he does not appear to have progressed much during his 3 years with the club;
• that he has recently been provided with matches in preference of players with an arguably greater technical skill set;
• a busted finger which leads to an unorthodox ball drop that people like to poke fun at, despite it not affecting the effectiveness of possession;
• a name that can easily be repurposed into an anatomical slur by those with an immature mindset.

As a result (particularly in these parts) he is now the whipping boy of the club, to the extent that his removal will somehow correct the errors of the past two years.

That is nonsense of course.


The real issue for me concerning Ainsworth is the direction the club appear to have taken in his development.

Have another look at how he was viewed before we drafted him.

Draft Central Profile: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

| Zero Hanger Profile: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

| 2017 Draft Prospect Highlights: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

Across the board he was seen as an animal around the contests and clearances, with above average decision-making skills.

Pre-draft he looked like a J.Lyons or lite-version of L.Neale in the making, yet three years on now it seems that the club are convinced that he should be turned into a lite-version of C.Masten in a move which baffles me even more than the delusion of taking Brander to the wing.

For the type of player that Ainsworth is, he needs to get to that 85-90kg physique in order to have the strength to make an impact as an inside midfielder at senior level. His current listed weight however remains the same as it was when he was drafted as a 19 year old - indeed, he actually looks far skinnier today than he did during the year he was drafted.

No doubt the club have done a lot of work to improve his fitness and running capacity, but it seems to have come at the cost of the one area of strength that he had as a contested ball-winner.

So now we have an inside midfielder who is too small to play on the inside and is forced into occupying roles elsewhere that are entirely unsuited to his natural game and set of skills - should we really be surprised then with the underwhelming performances that follow?

It will take Ainsworth at least 3-4 years to get to the required size to perform as an inside midfielder, considering where his physique is at right now. Which effectively means you can't expect much from him until he is 25-26, if things go to plan. The situation is absurd and highlights another case of terrible mismanagement of talent by the club.

Unfortunately, waiting 6 years for an over-ager to have an impact is beyond the limits of most clubs (and supporters). The likely outcome now is delistment sometime in the next couple of seasons with him being widely viewed as a complete failure of recruiting rather than development. He will then return to the WAFL, continue to grow physically, and go on to dominate that competition much like J.Bolton, S.Fisher, J.Ramsay etc.


The obvious question that should [needs to] be asked when regarding Ainsworth is why on earth would the club draft an inside contested specialist only to ignore that and attempt to turn them into a low-possession defensive winger?

 

[RookiePick]

You're probably right, but we're stuck with him for a while, so I'd like to see if he does improve before assigning him to the waste-bin of flopped out footballers.
At this stage is he important, is he dangerous, is he threatening to improve, does he have clear raw talent?....No!

Apologies DoaShuey, he was brought back into the spotlight because he was just given a contract extension, which relates to this threads title...but I won't mention Ainsworth again, lets get back to debating other names endlessly...

He has the body of an 18 year old draftee tho...

 

[RookiePick]

For the type of player that Ainsworth is, he needs to get to that 85-90kg physique in order to have the strength to make an impact as an inside midfielder at senior level. His current listed weight however remains the same as it was when he was drafted as a 19 year old - indeed, he actually looks far skinnier today than he did during the year he was drafted.

Ainsworths' plus side prior to the draft was his ability to get the pill. So far he's had zero opportunity to play that role and has been learning his outside craft at WAFL level.

My main concern is there seems to be no effort in bulking the kid up so he can actually play at the coal face without getting murdered.

Hard agree. I posted this back in July.

It seems to be a really common theme that we draft kids and spend so much time working on their "weaknesses" or "rounding them out" that they never take their AFL potential abilities - that got them drafted - to an AFL standard.

*coughBrandercough*

 

[matt_bas]

Can we talk about anyone other than Ainsworth?

Anyone think we are a chance to steal Banfield?

 

[Doashuey]

Hard agree. I posted this back in July.

It seems to be a really common theme that we draft kids and spend so much time working on their "weaknesses" or "rounding them out" that they never take their AFL potential abilities - that got them drafted - to an AFL standard.

*coughBrandercough*

Wayne Bennett, one of the all time great rugby league coaches ( as recently confirmed by taking 14 debutants to a series win in the State of Origin this year against raging favourites) had this exact philosophy. A player is taken for his strengths, so he works to make those strengths stronger. Good tackler? He will make you a great tackler. Fast runner? Train to get faster (or dare I say it more swerveable) etc. That's not to say work cant be done to limit deficiencies but the overall idea is to work with a players strengths to make them stronger.

It works.

 

[Astro7]

No, he is not.

An unfortunate combination of circumstances has brought us to where we are today:

• underachievement in the past two seasons as a club;
• a midfield lacking supporting depth as the primary cause of that underachievement;
• the opinions that superior midfield players were available for selection when Ainsworth was drafted;
• that he does not appear to have progressed much during his 3 years with the club;
• that he has recently been provided with matches in preference of players with an arguably greater technical skill set;
• a busted finger which leads to an unorthodox ball drop that people like to poke fun at, despite it not affecting the effectiveness of possession;
• a name that can easily be repurposed into an anatomical slur by those with an immature mindset.

As a result (particularly in these parts) he is now the whipping boy of the club, to the extent that his removal will somehow correct the errors of the past two years.

That is nonsense of course.


The real issue for me concerning Ainsworth is the direction the club appear to have taken in his development.

Have another look at how he was viewed before we drafted him.

Draft Central Profile: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

| Zero Hanger Profile: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

| 2017 Draft Prospect Highlights: Brayden Ainsworth

46

Brayden Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.7

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.7

4star

M

3.3

4star

T

4.3

5star

CL

1.7

4star

Across the board he was seen as an animal around the contests and clearances, with above average decision-making skills.

Pre-draft he looked like a J.Lyons or lite-version of L.Neale in the making, yet three years on now it seems that the club are convinced that he should be turned into a lite-version of C.Masten in a move which baffles me even more than the delusion of taking Brander to the wing.

For the type of player that Ainsworth is, he needs to get to that 85-90kg physique in order to have the strength to make an impact as an inside midfielder at senior level. His current listed weight however remains the same as it was when he was drafted as a 19 year old - indeed, he actually looks far skinnier today than he did during the year he was drafted.

No doubt the club have done a lot of work to improve his fitness and running capacity, but it seems to have come at the cost of the one area of strength that he had as a contested ball-winner.

So now we have an inside midfielder who is too small to play on the inside and is forced into occupying roles elsewhere that are entirely unsuited to his natural game and set of skills - should we really be surprised then with the underwhelming performances that follow?

It will take Ainsworth at least 3-4 years to get to the required size to perform as an inside midfielder, considering where his physique is at right now. Which effectively means you can't expect much from him until he is 25-26, if things go to plan. The situation is absurd and highlights another case of terrible mismanagement of talent by the club.

Unfortunately, waiting 6 years for an over-ager to have an impact is beyond the limits of most clubs (and supporters). The likely outcome now is delistment sometime in the next couple of seasons with him being widely viewed as a complete failure of recruiting rather than development. He will then return to the WAFL, continue to grow physically, and go on to dominate that competition much like J.Bolton, S.Fisher, J.Ramsay etc.


The obvious question that should [needs to] be asked when regarding Ainsworth is why on earth would the club draft an inside contested specialist only to ignore that and attempt to turn them into a low-possession defensive winger?

Thanks for the measured insights Dylan! I thought he had a bit of pluck about him.
If what you say is true about the club/development group, then that's awful, they reap what they sow? Although I guess they might be trying to fill a requirement at the time, or develop a player towards a position that needs topping up, with what's lying around rather than draft a specific player for that role-robbing Peter to pay Paul-doesn't show much long term vision-but I can understand that process given all the enlistment and salary cap rules+regulations.

Fwiw, I've never liked the anatomical nickname of said player, or used it. I don't understand supporters who abuse and deride players as though they have a right to do so. It's not Fanboi stuff, it's just respect for players and club. We may be invested in all sorts of ways, but we don't own a piece of them?
If the kid doesn't make it, ce la vie, if he does - good for him!
Moving along...

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Can we talk about anyone other than Ainsworth?

Anyone think we are a chance to steal Banfield?

Bailey?

Why? A guy considered expendable by Freo due to his disposal probably isn’t a necessity for us.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Wayne Bennett, one of the all time great rugby league coaches ( as recently confirmed by taking 14 debutants to a series win in the State of Origin this year against raging favourites) had this exact philosophy. A player is taken for his strengths, so he works to make those strengths stronger. Good tackler? He will make you a great tackler. Fast runner? Train to get faster (or dare I say it more swerveable) etc. That's not to say work cant be done to limit deficiencies but the overall idea is to work with a players strengths to make them stronger.

It works.

I remember an interview with Masten where Sam Mitchell had a similar philosophy. Told Masten to stop trying to be a tackling beast, and focus on his strengths: running his opponent into the ground.

Seems logical to me.

Club needs to stop trying to shove square pegs into round holes. We built a premiership based on our strengths, not sure why this seems to have gone out the window and we have players like Brander and Ainsworth played so badly out of position based on their junior days (and, surely, what they did in U18s etc was the reason why they were drafted in the first place).

 

[Rowan18]

Geez never really thought about it before but Brayden has a real Gryan feel to it.

One of my great delights when catching a geelong game with casual fans, is explaining to them that there is a player with the first name Gryan.