Toast Contributions to success
- Thread starter magpies42
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Some like to draw conclusions from the voices that they hear inside their heads. I print my original comment again for clarity..
i wonder how the supercoach would have done without leppa and bolton and wright. I wonder how buckley might have done with a president who could keep his mouth shut and not intervene. We'll never know.
hardly a defence....if the reader thinks buckley would have done better if he had competent people above him like the supercoach has, instead of the two bozos who forced him to personally get rid of treloar and sour his relationship with the squad....well that's the reader's interpretation. Some readers might think that the supercoach might have done things differently....
An interesting example is the supercoach's interaction with grundy before he was traded and he told grundy that he thought he should go.
Grundy "read the room" and agreed to leave. I wonder what would have happened if Grundy hadn't "read the room". A what if scenario. Maybe the supercoach would have specifically told grundy that he wasnt wanted and the players thought he wasn't playing at the required level. Grundy might have gone public with that comment. I wonder how the supercoach would have responded. Would he have put Grundy's photo up in a team meeting? Would he have wrapped his arms around him?
We'll never know......
jmac70
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If ifs and ands were pots and pans beggars could ride.
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“It‘s not about falling to the ground, it’s about what we want to be. I put winners only up and I put what ifs and if only. Because winners don’t think what ifs and if only. They just use it. It just fuels you for more.
“There’ll be a lot of people laying in bed tonight going if only, what if and I just don’t want to live in that space.
“Because winners pick themselves up and use the lessons and get better and use it for motivation. That’s what we do.”
The master has spoken. Which only reinforces the fact that losers like myself spend too much time on "what if". I wonder what the master thinks of those still going on about Harmes and Rocca....
i can guess... he would wrap his arms around them and tell them they have misread the room...
“There’ll be a lot of people laying in bed tonight going if only, what if and I just don’t want to live in that space.
“Because winners pick themselves up and use the lessons and get better and use it for motivation. That’s what we do.”
The master has spoken. Which only reinforces the fact that losers like myself spend too much time on "what if". I wonder what the master thinks of those still going on about Harmes and Rocca....
i can guess... he would wrap his arms around them and tell them they have misread the room...
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The hand is slow, but the ox is patient
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sr36
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Have you considered that Bucks trying to control something that should have been left for someone else may have been Bucks's issue rather than someone else's?
sr36
Hall of Famer
The flip side is: how well would Leppa, Bolton, and Wade's strengths been utilised under Bucks?
My view is that the idea of a supercoach who controls everything is silly. A super manager that helps organise everyone to do their jobs more effectively on the other hand...
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well thats your assessment which is fair enough.
as your ongoing narrative about control, i've been told by people that the coaching group was reduced during covid. If the coaching group is reduced, I wonder what the football manager does with the duties that they undertook.
Evidently someone said that buckley was told to back off, but evidently he did and he didnt. Evidently the football manager had no control over him but he had the level of control to tell him to back off but evidently not enough to back buckley off when he refused to back off.
It's a somewhat confusing story of backing off and shunting forward...
sr36
Hall of Famer
It's not confusing at all and has been well documented. The review at the end of 2017 told Bucks to lighten up and delegate, which he did ... But old habits can creep back in.
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- Nov 13, 2008
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no, i realise that. I've read how the BF people have documented it all. It's one of the reasons that I come here, so I can find out all the facts. So he lightened up in 2018 and had a level of success in being in front in the grand final until the last 20 seconds ....and then he decided to take control again. I suppose it's just in his DNA to be that pig-headed. I knew a bloke who knew a bloke who knew a bloke who bumped into bucks in 1993 and that guy said he was pig-headed.....it just sums up his whole career.
Well at least now we have a bloke who decentralises everything but is in control of it all, although he really isnt in control because he's decentralised it...but he's the reason we'll win next year and I'm looking forward to it
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This is spot on from my vantage point. Buckley dealt with unprecedented turmoil and still managed to get the team to follow him and perform. Much of the foundations and strengths the team has was set by Buckley.
- Nov 13, 2008
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well it just shows you how wrong you can be. Evidently, he can't coach. We need to accept that. Craig Mcrae is a great coach and so is simon goodwin..... simon always shares his stash...it's hard to find coaches like that...but he's a proven great coach... a premiership coach....not like bucks
If anyone thinks Buckley didn't have a hand in our now success, I'm gonna have to disagree.
The dark years all stem back to the succession plan, before our 15th flag. This is not Buckley's fault, it is rumored (correct me if I am incorrect) that he offered to stay aside until MM was ready to leave on his own accord.
It is also rumored that Ed wouldn't have a bar of it. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Even then that is irrelevant, at the time of the failed succession plan announcement, we were on a trajectory to be a dynasty team. We're talking about a team that:
In short, this is where the dark years surfaced, basically the whole club is to blame for acceptance of Ed's wish (if that is correct).
Now, the fingerprints of Buckley.
Although, he took over such a dominant team, he couldn't go much further than flag with them, almost did, a prelim the 1st year, not bad for a green rookie coach.
None the less, you don't give the keys to your HSV to a learner driver, this was Ed's wish.
In the ensuing years, with departures of Heater, Daisy etc. the wheels were starting to fall off that HSV, it became a revolving list with the trade ins of the likes of Aish, Wells, Mayne etc. (WTF was that?!) < Maybe Buckley had a hand in this but probably not the final say.
The further ensuing years was lament of a what should've been a dynasty team a few years earlier.
Fast forward to post the 2017 review, we have a much weaker team list wise than that should've been dynasty team, yet Buckley (and his coaching panel and mc at the time) conjure one the most brilliant tactical games in the modern era.
In short, the coaching panel developed a 'role' play game i:e not personnel reliant. And got within a kick of the flag. Not bad considering the development of someone like Mayne into one of the core components. Almost pulled it off.
It was a tactically brilliant game style, yet so simple, basically run harder two ways to outnumber in the contest and then on the outside with the win of possession. All on the back of a team defence mantra.
Exceptionally difficult to defeat yet also extremely difficult to execute.
Fast forward to now we're STILL playing this game, although on face value it might look a lot different with a much more speedy transition and offensive game, it's STILL on the back of the same two way run outnumber team defence game mantra.
The development is much much better now, the recruiting is much much better now, and that is the result of a much much more united club than it was in the Buckley years < this hardly if any Buckley's doing.
Sure, Fly might be the Ted Lasso with a much much better FD behind him, none the less many of his current list learnt the Buckley (and his panels) game plan, and it isn't a lot different. < This is where Buckley has his fingerprints.
To suggest that Buckley doesn't have in some way shape or form an influence in our latest success is folly IMO.
The dark years all stem back to the succession plan, before our 15th flag. This is not Buckley's fault, it is rumored (correct me if I am incorrect) that he offered to stay aside until MM was ready to leave on his own accord.
It is also rumored that Ed wouldn't have a bar of it. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Even then that is irrelevant, at the time of the failed succession plan announcement, we were on a trajectory to be a dynasty team. We're talking about a team that:
- Was the 2nd youngest premiership team in history
- That almost unchanged team then went on to a 20- 2 record wih the 2nd highest percentage in history (only behind the 'machine' team of the 4 peat)
In short, this is where the dark years surfaced, basically the whole club is to blame for acceptance of Ed's wish (if that is correct).
Now, the fingerprints of Buckley.
Although, he took over such a dominant team, he couldn't go much further than flag with them, almost did, a prelim the 1st year, not bad for a green rookie coach.
None the less, you don't give the keys to your HSV to a learner driver, this was Ed's wish.
In the ensuing years, with departures of Heater, Daisy etc. the wheels were starting to fall off that HSV, it became a revolving list with the trade ins of the likes of Aish, Wells, Mayne etc. (WTF was that?!) < Maybe Buckley had a hand in this but probably not the final say.
The further ensuing years was lament of a what should've been a dynasty team a few years earlier.
Fast forward to post the 2017 review, we have a much weaker team list wise than that should've been dynasty team, yet Buckley (and his coaching panel and mc at the time) conjure one the most brilliant tactical games in the modern era.
In short, the coaching panel developed a 'role' play game i:e not personnel reliant. And got within a kick of the flag. Not bad considering the development of someone like Mayne into one of the core components. Almost pulled it off.
It was a tactically brilliant game style, yet so simple, basically run harder two ways to outnumber in the contest and then on the outside with the win of possession. All on the back of a team defence mantra.
Exceptionally difficult to defeat yet also extremely difficult to execute.
Fast forward to now we're STILL playing this game, although on face value it might look a lot different with a much more speedy transition and offensive game, it's STILL on the back of the same two way run outnumber team defence game mantra.
The development is much much better now, the recruiting is much much better now, and that is the result of a much much more united club than it was in the Buckley years < this hardly if any Buckley's doing.
Sure, Fly might be the Ted Lasso with a much much better FD behind him, none the less many of his current list learnt the Buckley (and his panels) game plan, and it isn't a lot different. < This is where Buckley has his fingerprints.
To suggest that Buckley doesn't have in some way shape or form an influence in our latest success is folly IMO.
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As Midnight Oil would say - you’ve all got short memories.
Buckley coached beautifully in 2018, and we nearly won a flag, because he grew a beard that year.
While he kept the beard in subsequent years, it’s supernatural power waned.
Fast forward to 2023, and a moustache arrived at the club via a little known player whom we pay peanuts. The moustache helped us to a flag.
Facial hair makes the greatest contribution to our success!!
Buckley coached beautifully in 2018, and we nearly won a flag, because he grew a beard that year.
While he kept the beard in subsequent years, it’s supernatural power waned.
Fast forward to 2023, and a moustache arrived at the club via a little known player whom we pay peanuts. The moustache helped us to a flag.
Facial hair makes the greatest contribution to our success!!
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sr36
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I think your memory has blocked out our lack of success in the 70s.
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I was watching back some recent highlights and noticed Ash Johnson had more impact than I thought. Kicked a goal in the final quarter comeback v Carlton in 22. Kicked a goal in the final quarter comeback on Anzac Day. And helped with that tap point to level the scores in the comeback win v Adelaide. Little things make a big difference
kartanoman
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I really enjoyed your thoughtful input in helping articulate the magnitude of Buckley's fingerprints on this Premiership club.
In no way should McRae, and his coaching staff, have their accomplishments diminished by this. Your thoughts should serve as the "spoken" compliment to Buckley and his staff for the coaching tactics, techniques and procedures he implemented, not to mention laying the groundwork for the culture which allowed McRae and his staff to come in and immediately build on that solid foundation to achieve the magical results of the last two years.
It is why in the literal sense that Buckley truly paved the way for McRae to come in and take the club to the next level and, ultimately, to the promised land. Both Buckley and McRae, respectively, shouldn't have to be compared to each other as the Club they coached for was different under each of their respective regimes.
Buckley reflected upon the selection of McRae as the perfect successor with the ideal philosophy and temperament to build on, naturally, what he put in place, awkwardly or self-consciously, starting in late 2017 and going onward until his time was up in 2021. Buckley, by his own admission, knew McRae could take the cultural and nurturing element for his players to levels far beyond what he was capable of. Look at how that translated on Grand Final Day with, well, watch the inner sanctum video the Club released and THAT is what I am attempting to point out.
It is that period, late 2017-current, where it can be argued the first steps were taken on the journey towards the 2023 Premiership. Those who began the journey, versus those who hoisted the cup at the end, were often not the same people. But along the way, we came to understand our Magpies through the slogan "Made by Many." In that spirit, in spite of both internal and external challenges, not to mention overcoming his own personal shortcomings as a head coach, Buckley left his mark on the Club, and he can take great pride in knowing the players he developed were there at the final siren in that exhilarating Grand Final match which showed the scoreboard as the Magpies by four (4). His journey with the Magpies could include a happy ending, even if he no longer had a daily hand in any capacity at the Club. His sneaking into the Collingwood dressing rooms, and hiding in a corner to take in the atmosphere, before being discovered by some of his old players (e.g. the photo with Pendles along with the story), put a final exclamation point on it all.
We are all blessed to have witnessed one of the most rewarding and satisfying journeys leading to a Premiership that any of our creative minds could have dreamed up. Reflecting back on where it started, it is OK to credit Buckley with contributing to the ultimate success achieved on Grand Final Day in 2023, no matter your opinion of him as a person, player or coach. But he was only one of many who have their story to tell about their contribution to helping along the journey. In fact, you and I share our own stories of our contributions and those are some I, personally, would enjoy reading about. For example, I have followed our beloved Pies for 40 years now. It had taken me until 1999 to figure out how to become an official Social Club Member which I held for nearly six seasons before dropping it due to personal challenges. Later on in 2016, I re-established membership, along with my daughter, and we both have been going strong for the last eight (8) years. So, I'd like to think our memberships are also helping the Club along that journey and bringing home the Premiership has been extra special for us.
Peace!
- Nov 13, 2008
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I'm not sure that I can tolerate such an obvious attempt at disrespecting a serious discussion about whether buckley can coach. The discussion has been over a dozen years in the making, from those initial steps when our former president nominated buckley as the transitional coach, cutting down our beloved malthouse in his prime.
I think your post has completely sidetracked what I believe was going to be momentus occasion when we pronounced whether buckley could or could not coach...
The only path that we can take now is to go back to the beginning and start again and re-establish whether buckley should have walked away from the initial appointment and allowed malthouse to win multiple successive premierships for the remainder of the decade.
Hopefully we can all come back here in 2035 when the issue will be resolved again.
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I look forward to this debate starting again. I’m sure it will be fresh and lively, and will touch on topics we’ve never covered before.
But all I ask is that someone please keep track of the presence of facial hair, and it’s role in our success.
sr36
Hall of Famer
Premierships - nil for us - in fact he helped cost us one be starring in a GF for Richmond
Mos have cost us over the years. It's a credit to the club that they could overcome Oleg's follicle hindrance and still win the flag this year. Great to see he's shaving it off for charity - should guarantee back to back.
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Premierships - nil for us - in fact he helped cost us one be starring in a GF for Richmond
Mos have cost us over the years. It's a credit to the club that they could overcome Oleg's follicle hindrance and still win the flag this year. Great to see he's shaving it off for charity - should guarantee back to back.
Yes, but, he had a son and that son (free of facial hair) helped us to the 2010 flag.
sr36
Hall of Famer
His son may have won more than 1 if the curse of his dad's mo didn't skew the footy at horrendous angles off his foot.
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