Corey McGrath

[AndyWalkersGirl]

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172

Found this on talkingcarlton.com

Very very interesting read.

 

[Kooley]

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172

Found this on talkingcarlton.com

Very very interesting read.

sour grapes.

if mcgrath had been kept on the list for 2007 and a similiar interview had taken place he would have spoken in glowing terms about pagan......

mcgrath was ordinary and i'm chuffed he is gone.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

For a Player to play 19 games and then be delisted suddenly ... id be pretty sour about it too.

 

[blues4flag]

sour grapes.

if mcgrath had been kept on the list for 2007 and a similiar interview had taken place he would have spoken in glowing terms about pagan......

Exactly, how many delisted players compliment their former club/coach?

 

[Kooley]

Exactly, how many delisted players compliment their former club/coach?

that's not my point

he could have said nothing or just said they sometimes didn't see eye to eye .....like i said if he was still playing for us he wouldn't have made those comments.....

 

[HBF]

Interesting points there, and I guess i'd be disappointed to if I got delisted as well. Personally, I thought he did enough to retain his spot on the list.

Saying that, if that is true what he said on TC is true, I think it's pretty poor form. Pretty easy to take a pot shot at someone when they don't have the right of reply.

 

[blues4flag]

that's not my point

he could have said nothing or just said they sometimes didn't see eye to eye .....like i said if he was still playing for us he wouldn't have made those comments.....

Of course he could have said nothing - but obviously he's pissed off at being delisted (a bit harsh in my opinion - probably deserved another year on the list).

 

[Kooley]

Of course he could have said nothing - but obviously he's pissed off at being delisted (a bit harsh in my opinion - probably deserved another year on the list).

probably deserved another year on our list or should have deserved another year on our list. you don't seem quite sure, just like mcgrath would have been feeling at the end of last year. a 28 yr old run with player with very average disposal. he knew his time was up!!!!

if he wants to make make those types of cheaps shots about the club now that he has been de-listed then he's not doing himself any favours.....if he had any ballls he should have spoken up last year.

 

[Effes]

Interested to know whether people believe his comments regarding

A) Tactics

B) Treatment of younger players

 

[blues4flag]

probably deserved another year on our list or should have deserved another year on our list. you don't seem quite sure, just like mcgrath would have been feeling at the end of last year. a 28 yr old run with player with very average disposal. he knew his time was up!!!!

if he wants to make make those types of cheaps shots about the club now that he has been de-listed then he's not doing himself any favours.....if he had any ballls he should have spoken up last year.

Definitely not sticking up for his comments - whether they're true or not, I don't know, but they don't make him look good, saying those things after they've been delisted.

As for the probably - he will not be part of our future in the long run, but I would have been pissed if I were Mcgrath, that Teague was retained ahead of me, regardless of contract or not. I would have kept him in front of Bannister as well, who would make more costly mistakes than just about anyone on our list.

 

[mediumsizered]

I think Corey needs to get his facts right, assuming these comments are his. The current board has only been in place 4 years, not 5 & Corey was at the club for 3. Also, since when do players have time to be fully on top of what is happening at board level? As far as I know, players don't attend board meetings.


He also contradicts himself by allegedly stating that Pagan had no idea & had to ask the players for tactics & on the other hand would ignore points or opinions from the leadership group.

Just to assist Corey, here is a summary of Pagan's coaching record at both Under 19 & Senior level at Arden St:
Under 19s:5 times premiers, 4 times runners-up
Seniors: 10 season, 9 times in finals including 2 premierships.
Of course his record at Carlton has been ordinary, but then he has had to rely on the Corey McGrath's of this world to carry our on-field fortunes. With due respect to Corey, who I also thought was a touch unlucky to be delisted, if these comments are truly his, he is way out of line & he should never forget he struggled to cement a regular first 18 spot at 2 AFL clubs, including a team (Carlton) that is going through its darkest on-field era in the club's proud history.

 

[Bee Vee]

I've heard Barrassi's record is more impressive than Pagans.
Should we get him too.

Too bad Norm Smith is'nt about as well. We could have a trifecta of yesterdays men.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Interesting points there, and I guess i'd be disappointed to if I got delisted as well. Personally, I thought he did enough to retain his spot on the list.

Saying that, if that is true what he said on TC is true, I think it's pretty poor form. Pretty easy to take a pot shot at someone when they don't have the right of reply.

He did more than enough to retain a place on the list for 2007

 

[audas]

Did Pagan sack him ? Does Corey sit on the board ? Did Corey win the Norm Smith this year ? Has Corey ever coached a team ? Is Corey aware of what is being asked of him ? Scare tactics on young players ? Like what ,......the boogie man ?

Corey you held your spot in the worst team the league has seen since the darkest days of saints and roys. NOT ONE person ever said we are on the way up because we have Corey McGrath......If it meant losing you to get some more blood in the recent draft so be it. If you got replaced by Gibbs, and lets face it, then maybe it shouldn't have come as such a shock. Or did you think you were in for a shot at skipper ?

Learn to manage yourself better bud, you just did a massive disservice. Outbursts like that get remembered.

 

[Kooley]

Definitely not sticking up for his comments - whether they're true or not, I don't know, but they don't make him look good, saying those things after they've been delisted.

As for the probably - he will not be part of our future in the long run, but I would have been pissed if I were Mcgrath, that Teague was retained ahead of me, regardless of contract or not. I would have kept him in front of Bannister as well, who would make more costly mistakes than just about anyone on our list.

you wont get any arguments from me there, teague should have been the first player to go.

 

[mediumsizered]

I've heard Barrassi's record is more impressive than Pagans.
Should we get him too.

Too bad Norm Smith is'nt about as well. We could have a trifecta of yesterdays men.

But didn't Barassi also look ordinary when he was coaching Sydney, circa 1993/94.

Do you think Chris Connolly has suddenly become a good coach? Or is his playing list a bit better than it was a couple of years ago? How about Leigh Matthews? Is he suddenly an ordinary coach? Or does it have something to do with the quality of his current playing list? Was Grant Thomas a super coach? Or did the playing list make him look good?

It should never be forgotten that without the cattle at Melbourne, Barassi was not able to achieve what he had previously achieved at Carlton & North. Whether you like it or not, if your best 22 is significantly behind the best 22 of the majority of AFL clubs, talent-wise, it won't matter who your coach is.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Unfortunately there is nothing in that list that I cant agree with. He is totally correct with many of the things he says about Pagan (IIRC, Daniel Batson also fired a few parting shots as well). When they have nothing to lose, the truth comes out. Pagan relies on 1980's coaching stratagies and standards, and McGrath is completely correct to point that out. And he did deserve a place on the list ahead of at least Bannister and Teague. When you look at the players leaving/trying to leave (Thornton, Russell, Bryan) and the comments of those who have left AFL footy altogether (McGrath, Batson) there is something disturbingly amiss with Denis Pagan methinks.

 

[mediumsizered]

Unfortunately there is nothing in that list that I cant agree with. He is totally correct with many of the things he says about Pagan (IIRC, Daniel Batson also fired a few parting shots as well). When they have nothing to lose, the truth comes out. Pagan relies on 1980's coaching stratagies and standards, and McGrath is completely correct to point that out. And he did deserve a place on the list ahead of at least Bannister and Teague. When you look at the players leaving/trying to leave (Thornton, Russell, Bryan) and the comments of those who have left AFL footy altogether (McGrath, Batson) there is something disturbingly amiss with Denis Pagan methinks.

Teague was still under contract so was never going to be delisted, while Bannister has just turned 24 whereas McGrath is about to turn 28. Teague will be delisted after this season & Bannister is at an age where he may still have some improvement. McGrath had no improvement left in him.

Batson does not come from a position of power. He struggled to consistently play well at VFL reserves level and never looked like moving to the next level. Interesting to note that even with the shortage of ruckmen on some team's lists, no other club rookied Batson. IMO Batson had an attack of the sulks because he over-rated his own ability.

 

[BlueWorld]

I think the issue is he was never given any warning, which you would have thought would have happened. I can recall someone here telling us he knew well in advance he was going to be delisted but it doesn't sound like Cory himself knew, which sounds bizarre! After playing 19 games, he'd have every reason to expect to be retained. Teague only played 7, Bryan 5 (was offered a 1 year deal) & Bannister 12. How many players would have been delisted from other clubs after playing 19 games?

Regardless of age you still need strong bodies, experience & players that set a good example for the young ones and I believe Cory was as professional as anyone at the club.

 

[AlecDuncan]

After playing 19 games, he'd have every reason to expect to be retained. Teague only played 7, Bryan 5 (was offered a 1 year deal) & Bannister 12. How many players would have been delisted from other clubs after playing 19 games?

Or, on the other hand, they had a good enough look at him to decide he didn't have a future. If Cory thought he was bullet-proof after playing 19 games, then he's an idiot.

I thought he was stiff myself, but we cut deeper than I thought we would - probably because of the vaunted super-draft. It was between him and Bannister, and I'm satisfied with the choice.

Save your delisting outrage for the end of 2007 - you'll need it.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Teague was still under contract so was never going to be delisted, while Bannister has just turned 24 whereas McGrath is about to turn 28. Teague will be delisted after this season & Bannister is at an age where he may still have some improvement. McGrath had no improvement left in him.

Batson does not come from a position of power. He struggled to consistently play well at VFL reserves level and never looked like moving to the next level. Interesting to note that even with the shortage of ruckmen on some team's lists, no other club rookied Batson. IMO Batson had an attack of the sulks because he over-rated his own ability.

Of course Teague was under contract and was never going to be delisted anyway, doesnt change the fact that generally speaking McGrath is/was more valuable than Teague is, and has done far more for the club on-field than Teague has during their respective tenures at the club.

Regardless of which perspective Batson was talking from, the fact remains that his comments are indicative of the regard that Pagan is held in by his players. I'm dead certain (in fact I know plenty of them personally) that there are other players which the same sort of big-headedness and arrogance that Batson had, and yet you never hear of them bad-mouthing their former coach/club after they split. Then when you add the Thornton/Russell sagas (Bryan is another story/character) you dont exactly get a glowing picture of one Denis Pagan

 

[audas]

Player gets de-listed and whines. Surpises ?

Corey McGrath gets de-listed. Surprises ?

Corey McGrath get de-listed and whines ? OH MY GOD.....CAN YOU BELIEVE IT. DENIS PAGAN HAS TO GO. ITS A DISGRACE, THE MAN IS USELESS, HAS LOST THE PLAYERS, IS TOO OLD, HAS ELEVEN FINGERS, CAVORTS WITH THE DEVIL, AND RUMOR HAS IT IS A SHAPE SHIFTING CAN OF CORN SOUP FROM ALPHA CENTURI.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I think Corey needs to get his facts right, assuming these comments are his. The current board has only been in place 4 years, not 5 & Corey was at the club for 3. Also, since when do players have time to be fully on top of what is happening at board level? As far as I know, players don't attend board meetings.


He also contradicts himself by allegedly stating that Pagan had no idea & had to ask the players for tactics & on the other hand would ignore points or opinions from the leadership group.

Just to assist Corey, here is a summary of Pagan's coaching record at both Under 19 & Senior level at Arden St:
Under 19s:5 times premiers, 4 times runners-up
Seniors: 10 season, 9 times in finals including 2 premierships.
Of course his record at Carlton has been ordinary, but then he has had to rely on the Corey McGrath's of this world to carry our on-field fortunes. With due respect to Corey, who I also thought was a touch unlucky to be delisted, if these comments are truly his, he is way out of line & he should never forget he struggled to cement a regular first 18 spot at 2 AFL clubs, including a team (Carlton) that is going through its darkest on-field era in the club's proud history.

He said Pagan had no idea about "the modern game", and i'm pretty sure when Pagan won most of his flags they weren't playing similar styles to todays football.

Could it be so simple as Pagan asking players for tactics, yet upon their suggestions said no i don't like those tactics so we won't go with them?

To me that's not a contradiction, it's a dictatorship.

McGrath has every right to make these comments, as he is no longer a Carlton employee and thus owes them nothing.

 

[audas]

Get off the grass people FFS.

Do really think that Denis Pagan cant work out whats going on in todays game, do really think that your that intelligent and you can see it but this bloke cant. If you think, for one second that Denis ACTUALLY didnt know what was going he would be there, he would be allowed to remain, million or not. He'd be locked up for being senile. Get a complete grasp on reality, it is the cattle on the track. That is the start of the story, the middle of the story and the end of it. ANY THING ELSE you decide to harp on, and on and friggin on about is merely YOUR OWN inability to comprehend the situation beyond the most blatant, skin deep, childish analysis. That is: You have no patience and you want to win now. And if you dont win you will look to blame the easiest target. The problem with this constant childishness is not that people on this forum have super intelligence and can see things that one of the greatest coaches of the modern game has missed along with an entire football operations department, no thats not the problem, the problem is that people on here cant see past the end of their own face and come to terms with the facts.

It really is pathetic and not ONE of you boring naysayers should come on this forum when Denis starts winning. It would be a disgrace to yourself.

 

[audas]

He said Pagan had no idea about "the modern game", and i'm pretty sure when Pagan won most of his flags they weren't playing similar styles to todays football.

Could it be so simple as Pagan asking players for tactics, yet upon their suggestions said no i don't like those tactics so we won't go with them?

To me that's not a contradiction, it's a dictatorship.

McGrath has every right to make these comments, as he is no longer a Carlton employee and thus owes them nothing.

Along with half the other stuff that goes on around here, this takes the cake. Corey says he didnt take someones advice, thats it, its a dictatorship. how well do you actually KNOW Lorraine Diggins. And I mean KNOW in the most biblical sense.