Corey McGrath

[drusswaylander]

Along with half the other stuff that goes on around here, this takes the cake. Corey says he didnt take someones advice, thats it, its a dictatorship. how well do you actually KNOW Lorraine Diggins. And I mean KNOW in the most biblical sense.

Man did you take some angry pills overnight

I have a number of concerns about Diggins, but there was no need for that mate What does she even have to do with this thread

Debate what she said as there were enough holes in it despite the better than average spin

 

[Kooley]

He said Pagan had no idea about "the modern game", and i'm pretty sure when Pagan won most of his flags they weren't playing similar styles to todays football.

Could it be so simple as Pagan asking players for tactics, yet upon their suggestions said no i don't like those tactics so we won't go with them?

To me that's not a contradiction, it's a dictatorship.

McGrath has every right to make these comments, as he is no longer a Carlton employee and thus owes them nothing.

sign of weakness.

 

[BlueBelle]

Player gets de-listed and whines. Surpises ?

Corey McGrath gets de-listed. Surprises ?

Corey McGrath get de-listed and whines ? OH MY GOD.....CAN YOU BELIEVE IT. DENIS PAGAN HAS TO GO. ITS A DISGRACE, THE MAN IS USELESS, HAS LOST THE PLAYERS, IS TOO OLD.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it is true? Do you really think any player is going to come out publicly and say that their coach is useless whilst both parties are still employed by the same club? Of course not!! Especially considering we all know Pagan holds grudges!!

 

[BlueBelle]

Get off the grass people FFS.

Do really think that Denis Pagan cant work out whats going on in todays game, do really think that your that intelligent and you can see it but this bloke cant. If you think, for one second that Denis ACTUALLY didnt know what was going he would be there, he would be allowed to remain, million or not. He'd be locked up for being senile. Get a complete grasp on reality, it is the cattle on the track. That is the start of the story, the middle of the story and the end of it. ANY THING ELSE you decide to harp on, and on and friggin on about is merely YOUR OWN inability to comprehend the situation beyond the most blatant, skin deep, childish analysis. That is: You have no patience and you want to win now. And if you dont win you will look to blame the easiest target.

The problem with this constant childishness is not that people on this forum have super intelligence and can see things that one of the greatest coaches of the modern game has missed along with an entire football operations department, no thats not the problem, the problem is that people on here cant see past the end of their own face and come to terms with the facts.

It really is pathetic and not ONE of you boring naysayers should come on this forum when Denis starts winning. It would be a disgrace to yourself.

You seem to harp on and on and on about how it's not Denis' fault. Why can't I harp on and on and on about maybe, just maybe, he is a contributing factor?

And what exactly are the facts audas? NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THE FACTS ARE!!! You could be right, I could be right. WE DON'T KNOW!!! Until then, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine! DEAL WITH IT. I have.

 

[BlueFeaver]

I think most of you are forgeting that the list needs to be managed years in advance. McGrath is 28 years of age and had reached his prime physically, mentally and skill wise. Weigh these factors against younger team members with far superior potential and you can see no other option. Comparing McGrath to Bannister and Teague is a none issue, these guys were not out of contract or had more scope for improvement in themselves and team balance wise. Don't forget that decisions made on contracts and delistings must be managed so we don't have to discard quality players to adhere to afl rules.

As for Pagans supposed lack of knowledge in the game, I would take it all with a grain of salt. McGrath is bitter no doubt, but someone of supposed "strong moral standing" would not make such comments, as it is unethical and uncouth to speak in such a way of your previous employer.

As for Pagan asking players opinions on tactics, this does not surprise me at all. You will find all coaches ask for the opinions and ideas of their senior players, they are after all part of a team with a common goal: what it is obvious though is McGrath could not grasp this concept and therefore his delisting speaks for itself.

 

[mediumsizered]

Regardless of which perspective Batson was talking from, the fact remains that his comments are indicative of the regard that Pagan is held in by his players. I'm dead certain (in fact I know plenty of them personally) that there are other players which the same sort of big-headedness and arrogance that Batson had, and yet you never hear of them bad-mouthing their former coach/club after they split. Then when you add the Thornton/Russell sagas (Bryan is another story/character) you dont exactly get a glowing picture of one Denis Pagan

If the only players that are prepared to go on record as stating Pagan is not held in high regard by the playing list are those who have been delisted, it reeks to me of sour grapes. Comments made by Chris Bryan should particularly be taken with a pinch of salt. Here is a person who has now conceded he did not present himself in good shape for 2006 pre-season training & was treated accordingly by the coaching staff. His opinion has no validity. He has been through a number of VFL/AFL clubs yet is only 24. This man needs to take a look a bit closer to home.

BTW, with the number of players that came off contract at the end of the 2006 season, why was there no mass walkout of players seeking a move to other clubs? All we keep hearing is that someone who knows someone has been told this one doesn't like that one blah blah blah, yet the actual reality presents as something different.

 

[Effes]

As for Pagan asking players opinions on tactics, this does not surprise me at all. You will find all coaches ask for the opinions and ideas of their senior players, they are after all part of a team with a common goal: what it is obvious though is McGrath could not grasp this concept and therefore his delisting speaks for itself.

What has Pagan shown at Carlton which indicates that he has an understanding of the modern game? What other tactics did he use at North Melboure besides "kick it long to Carey"?

 

[Jock]

But didn't Barassi also look ordinary when he was coaching Sydney, circa 1993/94.

Do you think Chris Connolly has suddenly become a good coach? Or is his playing list a bit better than it was a couple of years ago? How about Leigh Matthews? Is he suddenly an ordinary coach? Or does it have something to do with the quality of his current playing list? Was Grant Thomas a super coach? Or did the playing list make him look good?

It should never be forgotten that without the cattle at Melbourne, Barassi was not able to achieve what he had previously achieved at Carlton & North. Whether you like it or not, if your best 22 is significantly behind the best 22 of the majority of AFL clubs, talent-wise, it won't matter who your coach is.

Totally agree - I'd like to know who all the Pagan bashers feel could have got our 2nd rate list any higher.

 

[AlecDuncan]

What has Pagan shown at Carlton which indicates that he has an understanding of the modern game? What other tactics did he use at North Melboure besides "kick it long to Carey"?

How about putting Carey into the centre where SOS is lost and let Grant and Bell cut us to pieces running into the forward 50?

 

[one_twelve112]

If the only players that are prepared to go on record as stating Pagan is not held in high regard by the playing list are those who have been delisted, it reeks to me of sour grapes. Comments made by Chris Bryan should particularly be taken with a pinch of salt. Here is a person who has now conceded he did not present himself in good shape for 2006 pre-season training & was treated accordingly by the coaching staff. His opinion has no validity. He has been through a number of VFL/AFL clubs yet is only 24. This man needs to take a look a bit closer to home.

BTW, with the number of players that came off contract at the end of the 2006 season, why was there no mass walkout of players seeking a move to other clubs? All we keep hearing is that someone who knows someone has been told this one doesn't like that one blah blah blah, yet the actual reality presents as something different.

We rarely hear of similar comments from players disgarded by opposition clubs (less Aker). They have just as much right to be sour but do not make these comments.

Perhaps there is an element of truth behind what has been said.

 

[Adpar]

I don't think it's good to bag your past club, but in my opinion it reflects worse on Corey than on the Club or Pagan. For what it's worth I was a big fan of Corey, he was one guy you could rely on to give 110% no matter how pear-shaped things were going. Not the most talented footballer going around (not as good as his brother) but worked twice as hard.
IMO he was hard done by

 

[Jimthegreat]

I think Corey needs to get his facts right, assuming these comments are his. The current board has only been in place 4 years, not 5 & Corey was at the club for 3. Also, since when do players have time to be fully on top of what is happening at board level? As far as I know, players don't attend board meetings.


He also contradicts himself by allegedly stating that Pagan had no idea & had to ask the players for tactics & on the other hand would ignore points or opinions from the leadership group.

Just to assist Corey, here is a summary of Pagan's coaching record at both Under 19 & Senior level at Arden St:
Under 19s:5 times premiers, 4 times runners-up
Seniors: 10 season, 9 times in finals including 2 premierships.
Of course his record at Carlton has been ordinary, but then he has had to rely on the Corey McGrath's of this world to carry our on-field fortunes. With due respect to Corey, who I also thought was a touch unlucky to be delisted, if these comments are truly his, he is way out of line & he should never forget he struggled to cement a regular first 18 spot at 2 AFL clubs, including a team (Carlton) that is going through its darkest on-field era in the club's proud history.

MS, Cory's not the only one who's made similar statements about Pagan. There's quite a few now and surely that tells you something. Not everyone suffers from sout grapes. Depends if you WANT to believe or not I suppose. He's lost the players good and proper. Probaly 2 groups of them (pre & post 2004). You'd have to live on the moon if you didn't understand that by now. Either that or you're plainly dumb (not that I think your're dumb).

If your relying on that record to get us out of the sh1t you're going to be sadly disappointed. That's long gone. I don't f*****g care of his record at North Melbourne or anywhere else, his record here is as pathetic as any coach in history. What he's done anywhere else is irrelevant. That's not going to help US. It's the 21st century and the game's passed him by. In his time here, we've had 15defeats by more than 90 points, record defeats, a ratio of less than 1 in 4 of losses by more than 10 goals. This is the AFL, no list is that bad. The system doesn't allow it. And this is with a team consisting of 4 AA's (Kouta's near the end admittedly), including the Coleman Medalist, a dual GF player, another who would've been in the 2004 premiership except he left to come home. Not to mention young guns, Simmo, Walker, Murphy, decent, if inconsistent and occasionally injured forwards such as Waite and Fisher, silky-skilled players such as Houlihan as well as decent players such as Blackwell, Bentick, O"hailpin and Betts. Not to mention Thornton, who must be ok given the lengths we went to to keep him. Not a premiership list but one that you can work with. Way better than 7 wins in 2 years. Sadly we're 7 wins worse off than 2 years ago with a better list now. This is the AFL, not some sh1t country league when bottom sides are truly uncompetitve. Unfortunately Pagan has failed us very badly.

You tell me, if Pagan was out of contract would you offer him another one?

 

[BlueFeaver]

What has Pagan shown at Carlton which indicates that he has an understanding of the modern game? What other tactics did he use at North Melboure besides "kick it long to Carey"?

Any senior coach will tell that the way to win Premierships is to play direct football, whether that is by running the ball forward or by long kicking. To think that the Kangaroo's sides of the 90's just banged it long is under estimating the players themselves, sure enough they kicked long but they were controlled kicks to the advantage of Carey etc.

As for Pagans lack of success while at Carlton, all I can say is look at the cattle we had without the Rose Coloured Glasses On. Think of the players for what they actually were not what you hoped they would be, then think about the loss of SOS, Hickmott, Ratten, Bradley, Mackay and career changing injuries th Alan and Kouta. Furthermore add the recruitment/trade of McKernnan who was well and trully past it. The core of the problem was we did not recruite correctly before Pagan got here and as a result we were short on players at their optimum afl age: in essence we had no one to replace the stars we had lost. Pagan inherited a side of D-C Grade players with off course a couple of exeptions.

If we don't see defined improvement this year I am all for sacking Pagan, but as supporters we must support our club and our coach the best we can.

 

[Blah Blah Blue]

Get off the grass people FFS.

Do really think that Denis Pagan cant work out whats going on in todays game, do really think that your that intelligent and you can see it but this bloke cant. If you think, for one second that Denis ACTUALLY didnt know what was going he would be there, he would be allowed to remain, million or not. He'd be locked up for being senile. Get a complete grasp on reality, it is the cattle on the track. That is the start of the story, the middle of the story and the end of it. ANY THING ELSE you decide to harp on, and on and friggin on about is merely YOUR OWN inability to comprehend the situation beyond the most blatant, skin deep, childish analysis. That is: You have no patience and you want to win now. And if you dont win you will look to blame the easiest target. The problem with this constant childishness is not that people on this forum have super intelligence and can see things that one of the greatest coaches of the modern game has missed along with an entire football operations department, no thats not the problem, the problem is that people on here cant see past the end of their own face and come to terms with the facts.

It really is pathetic and not ONE of you boring naysayers should come on this forum when Denis starts winning. It would be a disgrace to yourself.

Spot on

 

[BlueWorld]

If the only players that are prepared to go on record as stating Pagan is not held in high regard by the playing list are those who have been delisted, it reeks to me of sour grapes. Comments made by Chris Bryan should particularly be taken with a pinch of salt. Here is a person who has now conceded he did not present himself in good shape for 2006 pre-season training & was treated accordingly by the coaching staff. His opinion has no validity. He has been through a number of VFL/AFL clubs yet is only 24. This man needs to take a look a bit closer to home.

BTW, with the number of players that came off contract at the end of the 2006 season, why was there no mass walkout of players seeking a move to other clubs? All we keep hearing is that someone who knows someone has been told this one doesn't like that one blah blah blah, yet the actual reality presents as something different.

Russell. Thornton. Add De luca & French. Campo a year ago. Lappin almost. Is that enough?

Do you really think current players are going to go on record? They'd face pretty severe consequences. Like playing for the Bullants as may have happened to at least one player who might have expressed some private dissatisfaction.

 

[BlueWorld]

Get off the grass people FFS.

Do really think that Denis Pagan cant work out whats going on in todays game, do really think that your that intelligent and you can see it but this bloke cant. If you think, for one second that Denis ACTUALLY didnt know what was going he would be there, he would be allowed to remain, million or not. He'd be locked up for being senile. Get a complete grasp on reality, it is the cattle on the track. That is the start of the story, the middle of the story and the end of it. ANY THING ELSE you decide to harp on, and on and friggin on about is merely YOUR OWN inability to comprehend the situation beyond the most blatant, skin deep, childish analysis. That is: You have no patience and you want to win now. And if you dont win you will look to blame the easiest target. The problem with this constant childishness is not that people on this forum have super intelligence and can see things that one of the greatest coaches of the modern game has missed along with an entire football operations department, no thats not the problem, the problem is that people on here cant see past the end of their own face and come to terms with the facts.

It really is pathetic and not ONE of you boring naysayers should come on this forum when Denis starts winning. It would be a disgrace to yourself.

Well yes I do. Why have we lost so many games through poor tactics- e.g the West Coast game which we should have won? It's not just the players. They have no confidence in the game plan. We have as much talent as many other sides but are poorly coached and have poor tactics compared to them. And the only reason he remains is because the board had neither the money nor the strength to get rid of him.

 

[BlueWorld]

Comparing McGrath to Bannister and Teague is a none issue, these guys were not out of contract.

Bannister was out of contract and was siged up again after the season.

 

[Bluebear]

Yep, he was probably unlucky to be delisted ahead of Teague......but a B & F (and a current contract) cuts you some slack......and so it should.

I'm sure not many "exit interviews" speak especially glowingly of coaches (didn't give me chances, played out of position etc...) and the big give away for motive.....the board - what the hell would he know about it other than they didn't offer a new contract........

Sad to see a wounded bull howl like that. Good luck in the SANFL Corey. Look to Prenda for an example of taking your medicine.

 

[bibi01]

This is the AFL, no list is that bad. The system doesn't allow it.

unfortunetly we tried to play the system and we suffered the full consequences hence the last 4 years of crap we have been through

maybe pagan has failed us, but there are plenty of others who have also failed us. players, coaches and administrators.

come the weekend its 22 v 22

coaches don't kick the ball, coaches don't put their head over the ball, coaches don't back into packs, coaches don't push their bodies to the limit for 3 hours on a weekend that is all up the players

coaches can only do so much, the rest is upto the players.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Bannister was out of contract and was siged up again after the season.

How about next time you complete the quote, rather than change it to suit your point of view. All it does is make your argument seem inept!

 

[Verbeek 15]

Like most Carlton supporters I was midly surprised when he was given the chop but I can think back to two games when his lack of skill let him down badly against Geelong at the Dome 4 straight points all very kickable & against Essendon in the draw when tried to centre the ball to Lance & missed him by 10 metres.

Jimthegreat the system did allow it the AFL gave us draft penalties.

 

[AlecDuncan]

How about putting Carey into the centre where SOS is lost and let Grant and Bell cut us to pieces running into the forward 50?

Duh. Next time I'll read the post properly.

 

[Snoozer]

McGrath is a servicable AFL footballer. Not going to win you any games, therefore he's a bit of a deadweight given our position on the ladder. Did the right thing getting rid of him, if it wasn't this year, it'd be next year. He's not in the long-term plan.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Like most Carlton supporters I was midly surprised when he was given the chop but I can think back to two games when his lack of skill let him down badly against Geelong at the Dome 4 straight points all very kickable & against Essendon in the draw when tried to centre the ball to Lance & missed him by 10 metres.

Jimthegreat the system did allow it the AFL gave us draft penalties.

In those 2 years we got Simmo, Fisher, Walker and Stevens (PSD) so I stand by the fact that using the list is a poor excuse. We probably did better in those 2 years than we did at the 2004 draft.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Player gets de-listed and whines. Surpises ?

Corey McGrath gets de-listed. Surprises ?

Corey McGrath get de-listed and whines ? OH MY GOD.....CAN YOU BELIEVE IT. DENIS PAGAN HAS TO GO. ITS A DISGRACE, THE MAN IS USELESS, HAS LOST THE PLAYERS, IS TOO OLD, HAS ELEVEN FINGERS, CAVORTS WITH THE DEVIL, AND RUMOR HAS IT IS A SHAPE SHIFTING CAN OF CORN SOUP FROM ALPHA CENTURI.

You really don't know much do you? Just another former player who's told it like it is about our coach. That's a few now. Must tell you something. How many more do you want it actually sinks in. Suppose they all got sour grapes! Of course he's lost the players, any dill knows that. Maybe your head's been buried in the sand so long you've missed something. Seems you simply live in denial and don't WANT to believe. Funny we don't hear about it publicly from delisted players at other clubs.