Corona virus, Port and the AFL. Part 2.

[raman]

Currently
for 80% this is just a sniffle, 17% a real issue and ~3% death

Post vaccination
90% just a sniffle, 7% a real issue and ~3% death

Source?

 

[backtozero]

I would agree with you if "herd immunity" meant you could not catch or transmit the disease.

What we have though is a vaccine that hides the symptoms, meaning sick people will go about their daily life spreading the disease.

You will note the same thing happens with influenza, where hospital staff are encouraged to take the vaccine. However this has not translated to better health outcomes for their clients. Thus it is more about keeping the healthy healthy, rather than protecting the vulnerable.

As such we are shutting down to protect the vulnerable now, only to be vaccinated and the inevitable occurs.


FTR I'm pro vax but let's get real

Precisely. A flu vax doesn't stop people dying of the flu.
I don't understand some of the thinking around a vaccine being the magic cure. It seems very fanciful. We will have to learn to live with covid and people will die. We aren't immortal.

 

[Power Raid]

Source?

based of the efficacy

 

[Lagooner]

based of the efficacy

Why does the death rate stay at 3% though? Wouldn’t the vaccine protect some of the people in the current at risk group? I mean we’ve had 900 people die in Australia so far. If they had all been given a vaccine prior to contracting the virus would 100% of them still die?

 

[chiwigi]

I would agree with you if "herd immunity" meant you could not catch or transmit the disease.

What we have though is a vaccine that hides the symptoms, meaning sick people will go about their daily life spreading the disease.

You will note the same thing happens with influenza, where hospital staff are encouraged to take the vaccine. However this has not translated to better health outcomes for their clients. Thus it is more about keeping the healthy healthy, rather than protecting the vulnerable.

As such we are shutting down to protect the vulnerable now, only to be vaccinated and the inevitable occurs.


FTR I'm pro vax but let's get real

That’s not actually the case.
It makes it a lot safer, coupled with the other things that need doing it helps a lot.
Just because you can’t see the light, it doesn’t mean you should just sit down and accept being stuck in the tunnel.

 

[pastmyprimus]

Precisely. A flu vax doesn't stop people dying of the flu.
I don't understand some of the thinking around a vaccine being the magic cure. It seems very fanciful. We will have to learn to live with covid and people will die. We aren't immortal.

It's clear-cut that is does.

The seasonal flu vaccine prevented more than 40,000 flu-associated deaths in the United States during a nine year period from 2005-2006 through 2013-2014

CDC Study: Flu Vaccine Saved 40,000 Lives During 9 Year Period | CDC

 

[raman]

based of the efficacy

Uh, ok. Source?

 

[Power Raid]

Why does the death rate stay at 3% though? Wouldn’t the vaccine protect some of the people in the current at risk group? I mean we’ve had 900 people die in Australia so far. If they had all been given a vaccine prior to contracting the virus would 100% of them still die?

I’m using the example of the influenza vaccine, carers and outcomes for patients as a guide.

There is no improvement in outcomes for patients including the vulnerable, with the vaccination of staff.

 

[Lagooner]

I’m using the example of the influenza vaccine, carers and outcomes for patients as a guide.

There is no improvement in outcomes for patients including the vulnerable, with the vaccination of staff.

Is that a yes? They would all still die despite having the vaccine?

 

[Power Raid]

We haven't flattened the curve, we've eliminated the virus completely and will stop at nothing to ensure it remains eliminated.

The problem going forward is going to be asking ourselves how much covid we're prepared to accept in a post vaccine world. The vaccine itself won't eliminate the virus, so how many of our current restrictions will remain and for how long? We're in a strange position where vaccinating our population and then returning life to normal would actually see our infections and deaths go up not down.

Path west just said we will be in lock down for 3 weeks

Hopefully just a worst case, rather than plan

 

[backtozero]

It's clear-cut that is does.

The seasonal flu vaccine prevented more than 40,000 flu-associated deaths in the United States during a nine year period from 2005-2006 through 2013-2014

CDC Study: Flu Vaccine Saved 40,000 Lives During 9 Year Period | CDC

Did you read the next sentence?

This estimate represents a little less than a one-quarter (22%) reduction in the deaths that would have occurred in the absence of flu vaccination during that time.

There will be covid deaths, even with a vaccine. And here we are locking down a major city for one case.

 

[pastmyprimus]

I’m using the example of the influenza vaccine, carers and outcomes for patients as a guide.

There is no improvement in outcomes for patients including the vulnerable, with the vaccination of staff.

What do you think happens to patients if the majority of health care workers are too sick to come into work because of the flu. The outcomes for patients are worse because they can't be properly treated.

The flu vaccine can help prevent the spread. This from NSW Health.

Influenza vaccination helps healthcare workers (HCW) who come into regular contact with influenza patients to reduce their risk of contracting influenza and of then spreading it to other vulnerable patients.

 

[raman]

"I'm not anti-vax, but..." is the new "I'm not racist, but..."

 

[pastmyprimus]

Did you read the next sentence?

This estimate represents a little less than a one-quarter (22%) reduction in the deaths that would have occurred in the absence of flu vaccination during that time.

There will be covid deaths, even with a vaccine. And here we are locking down a major city for one case.

The point is that the vaccine saves lives. That's not hard to follow is it.

 

[Grave Danger]

And in totally unsurprising news, WA records 0 new cases today.

1 hotel security guard caught the virus off a returned traveller and gave it to nobody and we put 2 million people into lockdown.

What a world.

Over 50 houses lost in bushfires though, so there's that.

 

[Del165198]

From a 7 day average peak of 750,000 new cases a day in mid January, it has now dropped to 550k.

Hard to put that down to anything except the vaccine rollout

 

[Power Raid]

What do you think happens to patients if the majority of health care workers are too sick to come into work because of the flu. The outcomes for patients are worse because they can't be properly treated.

The flu vaccine can help prevent the spread. This from NSW Health.

Influenza vaccination helps healthcare workers (HCW) who come into regular contact with influenza patients to reduce their risk of contracting influenza and of then spreading it to other vulnerable patients.

I posted a study identifying this was not the case and I couldn’t find a study supporting your claim.

 

[pastmyprimus]

I posted a study identifying this was not the case and I couldn’t find a study supporting your claim.

So health departments (there are others than NSW Health) that have medical specialists who are across all the relevant studies have got it wrong

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Australia’s cricket tour of South Africa is off.
Cricket Australia today informed Cricket South Africa that it believed it had “no choice” but to postpone the tour due to COVID-19, a media release confirmed on Tuesday.

The three-Test tour, which was scheduled to start early March, will not go ahead after it was determined South Africa poses an “unacceptable” level of risk for Australia’s players and support staff.

 

[Power Raid]

What do you think happens to patients if the majority of health care workers are too sick to come into work because of the flu. The outcomes for patients are worse because they can't be properly treated.

The flu vaccine can help prevent the spread. This from NSW Health.

Influenza vaccination helps healthcare workers (HCW) who come into regular contact with influenza patients to reduce their risk of contracting influenza and of then spreading it to other vulnerable patients.

no

The reason why influenza virus vaccines are provided to healthcare workers is to reduce the risk of passing onto vulnerable patients. However the studies fail to provide evidence to support this outcome.

Thus it remains a good idea rather than science. Further supporting the good idea, is reduced sick leave and thus greater utility of healthcare workers.


I'm happy for you to provide a study that contradicts the study I have posted.

 

[pastmyprimus]

no

The reason why influenza virus vaccines are provided to healthcare workers is to reduce the risk of passing onto vulnerable patients. However the studies fail to provide evidence to support this outcome.

Thus it remains a good idea rather than science. Further supporting the good idea, is reduced sick leave and thus greater utility of healthcare workers.


I'm happy for you to provide a study that contradicts the study I have posted.

So now your accepting that vaccinated health care workers result in better patient outcomes.

And just where is this study that claims it does nothing to stop the spread. The point is the health departments are saying it does help. The medical experts in the departments have read mores studies than me on this subject and definitely more the single article you've read.

 

[FishingRick04]

Add me to the list of people who think you are a dick please.

lol where’s your humour? You guys did do it tough. We here we lucky compared tovic, however not through the incompetence of Dictator Dan.

 

[FishingRick04]

"I'm not anti-vax, but..." is the new "I'm not racist, but..."

comparing anti vac to racism is a bit far.

racism is intolerable, vaccination is still a choice And it should be.

 

[Power Raid]

So now your accepting that vaccinated health care workers result in better patient outcomes.

And just where is this study that claims it does nothing to stop the spread. The point is the health departments are saying it does help. The medical experts in the departments have read mores studies than me on this subject and definitely more the single article you've read.

in the study the health experts are saying they "believe" or "hope" it works and logic says it is a good idea. However the studies fail to provide support for the belief.


AND NO it may not lead to better health outcomes. As although their is greater utility of health care workers, which on face value leads to better outcome a risk still remains. That is someone vaccinated but having influenza still comes to work as they don't have symptoms and still spreads the disease. This may explain why the science doesn't support the hope. This is exactly the same risk with covid.


We need science and facts rather than hope and good ideas.

 

[raman]

comparing anti vac to racism is a bit far.

racism is intolerable, vaccination is still a choice And it should be.

Firstly it was an analogy about how people open with one thing and then go on to demonstrate the opposite viewpoint, not a comparison of anti vax to racism.

Secondly anti-vax is pro-disease, anti people who are immunocompromised, and based on nothing but a mountain of paranoid fantasies. It is a detestable scourge.