Conspiracy Theory Coronavirus #2: Lockdowns

Thoughts on COVID-19? (Choose 2 options)

  • It's a naturally occurring virus

    Votes: 15 20.3%

  • It came from a Chinese laboratory

    Votes: 31 41.9%

  • It came from a US/other laboratory

    Votes: 5 6.8%

  • It's dangerous and harsh restrictions are necessary

    Votes: 19 25.7%

  • It's not dangerous enough to warrant harsh restrictions

    Votes: 22 29.7%

  • It's basically another flu, so restrictions are silly

    Votes: 14 18.9%
  • Total voters
    74

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GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
The exact same situation happens in China though. Everyone spreads the same message because thats what the government tells them to do. When you dont, you end up like Jack Ma. In jail for 4 months and in a life/death situation.

I guess the sad thing is, we think we are above it and above corruption. Can I ask why you think this is so? Geniunely curious and dont mean it as a disrespectful thing. I guess I want to know where your trust is coming from and why this situation of trust differs from that offered by the Chinese government to their people?
Click to expand...

Trust? It's an article of faith and in this you are probably right. The Chinese government is an authoritarian system that represses it's people but it's model has largely been geared toward raising the living standards of its people for decades and even under Mao brutal repression was coupled with this - very much under the the 'greater good' proviso that you likely hate. We live in an ignorant world where people conflate a concept like 'communist' with a particular set of beliefs that doesn't account for nuance. Despite that system's flaws I don't see it as having an interest negatively effecting the health of its broader population. Similarly the capitalist democratic societies are very much controlled by a financial elite - there are lots of just criticism that you can make of big pharma, but every country in the world is grasping at vaccination as a response to what they see as a situation that is difficult to control. If you are a conspiracist you see this as 'control', you fear control, you see its tentacles in everything - I see these systems as more randomised and more dynamically in flux with different groups vying for power, but certainly not controlled by a single entity or single elite. And neither situation has a stake in promoting 'deadly' vaccination like rubbish posts proclaim here. I don't see evil intent in a character like Bil Gates, he's a nerdy computer programmer, Trump was a border line village idiot but pro vax because he knows it will provide stability to the economic system that he relies on.
Look more at the financial system for answers as to who is doing what and why. The problem is with the conspiracy angle is none of it is not unified - it relies on on hundreds of different groups all manipulating data and science and public messaging with lethal effectiveness - it has no coherence. My trust is that simple explanations are correct: we have a virus that will kill a lot of people, companies have produced a lot of different vaccines using different technologies that are proving highly effective, there are very limited negative outcomes. Rejoice and be happy.
 
Venkman said:
Trust? It's an article of faith and in this you are probably right. The Chinese government is an authoritarian system that represses it's people but it's model has largely been geared toward raising the living standards of its people for decades and even under Mao brutal repression was coupled with this - very much under the the 'greater good' proviso that you likely hate. We live in an ignorant world where people conflate a concept like 'communist' with a particular set of beliefs that doesn't account for nuance. Despite that system's flaws I don't see it as having an interest negatively effecting the health of its broader population. Similarly the capitalist democratic societies are very much controlled by a financial elite - there are lots of just criticism that you can make of big pharma, but every country in the world is grasping at vaccination as a response to what they see as a situation that is difficult to control. If you are a conspiracist you see this as 'control', you fear control, you see its tentacles in everything - I see these systems as more randomised and more dynamically in flux with different groups vying for power, but certainly not controlled by a single entity or single elite. And neither situation has a stake in promoting 'deadly' vaccination like rubbish posts proclaim here. I don't see evil intent in a character like Bil Gates, he's a nerdy computer programmer, Trump was a border line village idiot but pro vax because he knows it will provide stability to the economic system that he relies on.
Look more at the financial system for answers as to who is doing what and why. The problem is with the conspiracy angle is none of it is not unified - it relies on on hundreds of different groups all manipulating data and science and public messaging with lethal effectiveness - it has no coherence. My trust is that simple explanations are correct: we have a virus that will kill a lot of people, companies have produced a lot of different vaccines using different technologies that are proving highly effective, there are very limited negative outcomes. Rejoice and be happy.
Click to expand...

A few grand sweeping statements here. This thread is full of diverse reasons for disliking the current situation. I think if you read daily you would see this for sure (dont expect you too btw :D , just saying). My opinion differs from Joeys for example but we are both anti vax in this case.

Similarly the capitalist democratic societies are very much controlled by a financial elite - This is wildly accurate . Good on you for ******* admitting it because so many pro vaxxers wont.

grasping at vaccination as a response to what they see as a situation that is difficult to control - Why cant the the current statement align with the first capitalist one?, Why cant the vaccine, the lockdowns, the dramatic shift in wealth to the capitalist movement be the situation to create a shift of power here as opposed to the virus itself and protecting the people? If a billionaires net wealth doubles in 1 pandemic and 1 year, why cant that be the benefit? Why do you think your politicans care about your health and safety for? If you think Scott Morrison cares about your health and safety and the capitalist movement does, go to a nursing home and think about it

you fear control, you see its tentacles in everything - I fear losing my liberties for sure. Thats why I fear going to prison and dont commit crimes? Its a natural human instinct

not controlled by a single entity or single elite - What do you mean? The rich elite hold monthly meetings to discuss the agenda where Bill, Angela, Xi all go into a room and create a working path they all agree on. The situation is controlled by a single entity. The response here is controlled by the WHO and anyone who went against it like Sweden and India was ridiculed and bullied. Heck, its called the World Health Organization for a reason?


'deadly' vaccination like rubbish posts proclaim here. I don't see evil intent in a character like Bil Gates, he's a nerdy computer programmer - I dont think its intentionally deadly, no one does. We just think its intentionally s**t and a non functioning product. If you dont test your product it can fail to work. It is failing to work but people will press ahead as its profitable. It happens alot. Thats why you go to the shop and can buy cigarettes. As for the intent of Bill Gates, blindly trusting a person is a s**t way to live. We learnt at 5 year olds not to trust a stranger and get into the car with the guy offering candy yet at 40 years old we are living against that principle. Bills done nothing to earn the trust of the world for the position he holds in it.

Look more at the financial system for answers as to who is doing what and why. The problem is with the conspiracy angle is none of it is not unified - This is just absolutely ******* horseshit., A unified opinion isnt a successful one. Based on this ridiculous logic you may as well say Hitlers idea of exterminating jews is okay since it was unified and that made it a plausible scenario. A extreme example but the financial systems having a positive angle towards society as a whole is blindly believing s**t. Its a insanely dumb mindset. You lost me here. A unified opinion is NEVER the definition of success. Dont think this way at all please. It isnt even about being blindly led or being a sheep. Its about ******* having your own set of principles and defining them for yourself. Like ffs, be your own moral compass. Stop looking for someone else to define your principles. Man up and do it yourself
 
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GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
A few grand sweeping statements here. This thread is full of diverse reasons for disliking the current situation. I think if you read daily you would see this for sure (dont expect you too btw :D , just saying). My opinion differs from Joeys for example but we are both anti vax in this case.

Similarly the capitalist democratic societies are very much controlled by a financial elite - This is wildly accurate . Good on you for ******* admitting it because so many pro vaxxers wont.

grasping at vaccination as a response to what they see as a situation that is difficult to control - Why cant the the current statement align with the first capitalist one?, Why cant the vaccine, the lockdowns, the dramatic shift in wealth to the capitalist movement be the situation to create a shift of power here as opposed to the virus itself and protecting the people? If a billionaires net wealth doubles in 1 pandemic and 1 year, why cant that be the benefit? Why do you think your politicans care about your health and safety for? If you think Scott Morrison cares about your health and safety and the capitalist movement does, go to a nursing home and think about it

you fear control, you see its tentacles in everything - I fear losing my liberties for sure. Thats why I fear going to prison and dont commit crimes? Its a natural human instinct

not controlled by a single entity or single elite - What do you mean? The rich elite hold monthly meetings to discuss the agenda where Bill, Angela, Xi all go into a room and create a working path they all agree on. The situation is controlled by a single entity. The response here is controlled by the WHO and anyone who went against it like Sweden and India was ridiculed and bullied. Heck, its called the World Health Organization for a reason?


'deadly' vaccination like rubbish posts proclaim here. I don't see evil intent in a character like Bil Gates, he's a nerdy computer programmer - I dont think its intentionally deadly, no one does. We just think its intentionally sh*t and a non functioning product. If you dont test your product it can fail to work. It is failing to work but people will press ahead as its profitable. It happens alot. Thats why you go to the shop and can buy cigarettes. As for the intent of Bill Gates, blindly trusting a person is a sh*t way to live. We learnt at 5 year olds not to trust a stranger and get into the car with the guy offering candy yet at 40 years old we are living against that principle. Bills done nothing to earn the trust of the world for the position he holds in it.

Look more at the financial system for answers as to who is doing what and why. The problem is with the conspiracy angle is none of it is not unified - This is just absolutely ******* horseshit., A unified opinion isnt a successful one. Based on this ridiculous logic you may as well say Hitlers idea of exterminating jews is okay since it was unified and that made it a plausible scenario. A extreme example but the financial systems having a positive angle towards society as a whole is blindly believing sh*t. Its a insanely dumb mindset. You lost me here. A unified opinion is NEVER the definition of success. Dont think this way at all please. It isnt even about being blindly led or being a sheep. Its about ******* having your own set of principles and defining them for yourself. Like ffs, be your own moral compass. Stop looking for someone else to define your principles. Man up and do it yourself
Click to expand...

I'm in the mood for grand sweep statement - kind of goes with conspiracy discussion.

To your points:

I guess what I'm saying is that there world isn't controlled by an homogenous power group. Money follows it's own course but even within that there are a diverse range of motivations and conflicts within conflicts - on the vax front you wouldn't align Elon Musk with Bill Gates despite each representing the 'elite,' similarly Trump who advocated for a range of crazy treatments, including bleach lol, wanted the vax asap. Nation states of diverse cultures have pursued vaccines as a response to the economic and health challenges. Not to say that there isn't profiteering - there is. The motivations of the US drug companies differ from, say, Oxford or SinoVac, or Sputnik (whoever makes that).

I share some of your fear of losing liberties, I'm a bit of a big tech conspiracist - not so much that we are getting controlled as much as polarised and stupider.

I disagree that the vaccines are s**t - the stuff posted on here is unsourced and unsubstantiated garbage - I don't have time to pull it all part (someone should!) but most comes from US anti whatever sites and are basically fabrications - looking at you 'registered user,' you seem to trawl the very lowest of the food chain for utter crap.

your stuff is generally more reasonable and more about the fear of government control , which I don't really care that much about, but I can understand it.

Don't know what you mean by the last point - I'm pointing out that complex conspiracy theories are invariably not true because of the difficulty of implementing them. Hitler's 'final solution' is historically verifiable (and no not 'OK' - not in any sense) but it's an event and not a theory (we have documentation, archaeology, footage, testimonies) - a conspiracy theory like 9/11 was an FBI conspiracy would require a huge cast of characters and logistics to implement with no one knowing - the assassination of JFK is far more believable from a conspiracy angle (someone FBI, Cubans, Mafia whoever) sets up a mentally unstable guy to shoot the president and then shoots him - plausible. Vaccines as some kind of globally coordinated conspiracy requires a greater order of magnitude of complexity again than 911 and therefor impossible.
 
Venkman said:
I'm in the mood for grand sweep statement - kind of goes with conspiracy discussion.

To your points:

I guess what I'm saying is that there world isn't controlled by an homogenous power group. Money follows it's own course but even within that there are a diverse range of motivations and conflicts within conflicts - on the vax front you wouldn't align Elon Musk with Bill Gates despite each representing the 'elite,' similarly Trump who advocated for a range of crazy treatments, including bleach lol, wanted the vax asap. Nation states of diverse cultures have pursued vaccines as a response to the economic and health challenges. Not to say that there isn't profiteering - there is. The motivations of the US drug companies differ from, say, Oxford or SinoVac, or Sputnik (whoever makes that).

I share some of your fear of losing liberties, I'm a bit of a big tech conspiracist - not so much that we are getting controlled as much as polarised and stupider.

I disagree that the vaccines are sh*t - the stuff posted on here is unsourced and unsubstantiated garbage - I don't have time to pull it all part (someone should!) but most comes from US anti whatever sites and are basically fabrications - looking at you 'registered user,' you seem to trawl the very lowest of the food chain for utter crap.

your stuff is generally more reasonable and more about the fear of government control , which I don't really care that much about, but I can understand it.

Don't know what you mean by the last point - I'm pointing out that complex conspiracy theories are invariably not true because of the difficulty of implementing them. Hitler's 'final solution' is historically verifiable (and no not 'OK' - not in any sense) but it's an event and not a theory (we have documentation, archaeology, footage, testimonies) - a conspiracy theory like 9/11 was an FBI conspiracy would require a huge cast of characters and logistics to implement with no one knowing - the assassination of JFK is far more believable from a conspiracy angle (someone FBI, Cubans, Mafia whoever) sets up a mentally unstable guy to shoot the president and then shoots him - plausible. Vaccines as some kind of globally coordinated conspiracy requires a greater order of magnitude of complexity again than 911 and therefor impossible.
Click to expand...

I think vaccines bein s**t is a bit too narrow. I think big pharma is s**t as a whole. Im not putting vaccines into its own category and pretending like its the only issue we have with big Pharma. I dont think the name of a product also creates a different narrative for them to use all of a sudden. I think there is a insane amount of evidence of the shocking practices of these companies and I dont think the word vaccine means they get a free pass of trust. I dont think the speak in regards to the complete lack of trust in big pharma is unsourced and unsubstantiated. It is enormously substantiate. I tend to think you are approaching the situation rather then the broader subject. You want us to trust the vaccine when we dont trust the person making it. I just dont think Pfizer and well pharma in general have earnt the trust to get any free passes just because its a vaccine and not a treatment. All that is is a word. It doesnt change the nature of the company. Quite simply put, big pharma is corrupt, mistake ridden and and there is mountains of evidence to prove this. Mountains of evidence that a drug 3 weeks old is a horrific failure? Not yet. Mountains of evidence that drug companies have made multiple errors in releasing drugs without proper testing, with hiding evidence in clinical trials, with bribing officials for approval for a untested drug, with creating drugs for one purpose and creating a wildly inefficient and criminally negligent scenario thereafter, yes. I could give you weeks of readable live data that proves all this. Want to stap yourself in?

I misunderstood you in that sense. You were talking about following a concept or theory I thought as opposed to the creation of it which is different altogether. I dont really think a huge cast of characters or logistics behind the concept of a Great Reset is that hard. Its extremely easy to share a common goal when you want power and wealth isnt it? Not like you are asking 5 religions and billions to co exist. You are advancing 2 very small concepts that can easily be achieved when you are in the right position. In its own way, Communism is a conspiracy theory. Its the process of creating a incorrect narrative and aligning beliefs to suit it despite not being true. The conspiracy theory of Chinas deep state is arguably the greatest theory ever created. It takes a lot more moving parts then any 9/11 and or big pharma theory. That is the Mt Everest to this situations Ayers Rock you will find. Big global groups is something I believe in, hence why I believe China is a threat mysekf.

The fact is, the big state does not give a ******* crap about you, the sooner you realise this the happier you will be
 
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www.news.com.au

‘Revolting’: Mayor slams Melbourne

One week after business owners in Melbourne’s Docklands expressed fears that COVID-19 and Victoria’s lockdown had “shattered the once bustling metropolis”, the city’s own Lord Mayor has put the boot in.
www.news.com.au www.news.com.au

The irony of Victorian political figures bitching and moaning about the negative aspects of lockdown isnt lost on me. A true sign of being inept is when the negative is a surprise you dont like as opposed to a issue you already planned for and resolved.

What did they expect to happen when they removed police resources from core CBD troublemaking areas to expand them deeper to find non trouble making maskless people? Im assuming they expected the criminals to also go to sleep and go home because they are nice guys? If you cant absord the negatives of your actions, you are a horrible leader. End of story
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
www.news.com.au

‘Revolting’: Mayor slams Melbourne

One week after business owners in Melbourne’s Docklands expressed fears that COVID-19 and Victoria’s lockdown had “shattered the once bustling metropolis”, the city’s own Lord Mayor has put the boot in.
www.news.com.au www.news.com.au

The irony of Victorian political figures bitching and moaning about the negative aspects of lockdown isnt lost on me. A true sign of being inept is when the negative is a surprise you dont like as opposed to a issue you already planned for and resolved.

What did they expect to happen when they removed police resources from core CBD troublemaking areas to expand them deeper to find non trouble making maskless people? Im assuming they expected the criminals to also go to sleep and go home because they are nice guys? If you cant absord the negatives of your actions, you are a horrible leader. End of story
Click to expand...
Yeah i saw this. ******* idiots think they can just undo the damage they caused at the click of a finger.

Marshall quietly requested all public service offices get back to work. Our CBD is pretty much back to pre covid foot traffic but there are more closed stores, cafes etc than before. Sadly the old owners will probably be forgotten and we will never truly know the damage Marshall actually caused... luckily for him

Have to wear masks at footy im hearing. No cases here, hasnt been for months. For what justification other than brainwashing sheep? Ridiculous. Wont bother with membership, just hope we are ******* normal for the Ashes
 
burge13 said:
Yeah i saw this. ******* idiots think they can just undo the damage they caused at the click of a finger.

Marshall quietly requested all public service offices get back to work. Our CBD is pretty much back to pre covid foot traffic but there are more closed stores, cafes etc than before. Sadly the old owners will probably be forgotten and we will never truly know the damage Marshall actually caused... luckily for him

Have to wear masks at footy im hearing. No cases here, hasnt been for months. For what justification other than brainwashing sheep? Ridiculous. Wont bother with membership, just hope we are ******* normal for the Ashes
Click to expand...

Lighting a fire, throw some gasoline then complain when the trees get burnt and turn into ash is a great way to sum up Australian politics in so many ways.

The world has past this lot by and they are too far behind to know what they are doing. Best thing we can do in politics really is get the average age down to 35 years old. People like Marshall are just not fit for 2021
 
Most telling quote of all is this

Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry Chief Executive Paul Guerra anticipated more workers to return to officers, with the government removing the compulsory mask rule in workplaces.

“Wearing a mask in the workplace was a major disincentive for people to return when they could do their work at home without a mask,” he said.

“Businesses that rely on foot traffic from office workers have done it tougher than most this past year and I encourage everyone to support them in whatever way they can: buy a coffee, have a work lunch, go shopping on your lunchbreak. Every little bit counts.
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Absolute weak dogs. Fix the problems you create. Do not ask others to do it for you. How can people support such a loser ass mentality as that? That a problem is around, you know its around and your answer is "Can the collective fix it please?"

* me
 

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Venkman said:
Thought you guys would appreciate some more good news on the vax front:

The Covid-19 vaccine developed by China’s Sinovac Biotech has an efficacy of 83.5% based on final results of Phase III trials, Reuters reports.

Turkish researchers revised the rate down from a preliminary finding of 91.25% after monitoring 41 infections, 32 of which had received a placebo.

The trial showed that the vaccine prevented hospitalisation and severe illness in 100% of cases, with the six people who were hospitalised all in the placebo group.
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You said good news. All I see is more pre-vax propaganda bullshit. Where is the good news?
 
burge13 said:
Brazil variant
Russia variant
Malaysia variant
Mars variant
Intergalactic variant

How ludicrous does it have to get before the sheep ignore such utter bollocks. Hawkie? Still shitting yourself over these or...?
Click to expand...
The Malaysia variant will probably be Nipah virus in disguise
 
burge13 said:
Brazil variant
Russia variant
Malaysia variant
Mars variant
Intergalactic variant

How ludicrous does it have to get before the sheep ignore such utter bollocks. Hawkie? Still shitting yourself over these or...?
Click to expand...

Im just waiting for the retail shopping variant and the local small business mega strain
 
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