Health Coronavirus 2020 / Worldwide (Stats live update in OP) Part 4

[utility]

I have led multi-million dollar projects, and worked on 9 figure programs of work in the corporate sphere.

It's easy to screw things up when complexity is involved, as are lots of people.

Politicians and bureaucrats are utterly unprepared to manage something like this, and therefore utterly incompetent. That and they are pushing their own and political agendas.

It's why Sweden's response is the most successful - limited intervention, trust people to do the right thing, adjust to updated information. It's also why Victoria's will prove to be one of the worst considering all factors.

 

[Gralin]

I have led multi-million dollar projects, and worked on 9 figure programs of work in the corporate sphere.

It's easy to screw things up when complexity is involved, as are lots of people.

Politicians and bureaucrats are utterly unprepared to manage something like this, and therefore utterly incompetent. That and they are pushing their own and political agendas.

It's why Sweden's response is the most successful - limited intervention, trust people to do the right thing, adjust to updated information. It's also why Victoria's will prove to be one of the worst considering all factors.

Taking the culture in Sweden into account vs ours if we'd done that we'd be looking like the UK right now

 

[phantom13]

Not a horse owner, but also not really bothered if they get to watch their horses run as it doesn’t result in me missing out on anything more than I already was.

People still seem to think outdoor and indoor are equivalent when it comes to this stuff, they’re miles apart.

Indoor with 10 from 2 households sitting on couches with masks on is no different to 10 from 2 outdoor on a picnic blanket, as ive mentioned before the fact that those 10 people would be using the same bathroom is much much better than those 10 people sharing a bathroom with 250 other people in the park. When we have single digit cases it makes no difference, the risk is astronimically small

 

[Forward Press]

Absolutely, yes. The more experiences they've had, the better.

I'd suggest that a person like Pauline Hanson or Clive Palmer would set a new bar for incompetent government.

One only needs to look at what happened after 2016 in the US.

 

[owen87]

Indoor with 10 from 2 households sitting on couches with masks on is no different to 10 from 2 outdoor on a picnic blanket,

Well that's not true.

sharing a bathroom with 250 other people in the park

Clearly the solution is each group of 10 can share their own tree for toilet functions.

 

[Gralin]

Indoor with 10 from 2 households sitting on couches with masks on is no different to 10 from 2 outdoor on a picnic blanket, as ive mentioned before the fact that those 10 people would be using the same bathroom is much much better than those 10 people sharing a bathroom with 250 other people in the park. When we have single digit cases it makes no difference, the risk is astronimically small

First of all you don't have to use the shared toilet facilities, you can catch up with friends and then go home with no shared surfaces touched, sit on your own blanket bring your own drinks etc

Secondly inside vs outside is different

Thirdly it's easier to police the wearing of masks outside

 

[craigos]

I have led multi-million dollar projects, and worked on 9 figure programs of work in the corporate sphere.

It's easy to screw things up when complexity is involved, as are lots of people.

Politicians and bureaucrats are utterly unprepared to manage something like this, and therefore utterly incompetent. That and they are pushing their own and political agendas.

It's why Sweden's response is the most successful - limited intervention, trust people to do the right thing, adjust to updated information. It's also why Victoria's will prove to be one of the worst considering all factors.

Yeah I wouldn't trust you to run a meat raffle my mans.

Anyone that is citing anything as being the most successful or least successful at this early stage is clearly not impartial.

 

[Forward Press]

Yeah I wouldn't trust you to run a meat raffle my mans.

Anyone that is citing anything as being the most successful or least successful at this early stage is clearly not impartial.

Sweden are going through a second wave (after their first wave was exponentially higher in numbers of cases and deaths than their Nordic neighbours), and their economy has shrunk by just as much as the rest of Europe.

So I don't know why some keep relying on 'lOoK aT sWeDeN!'

 

[JackOutback]

Taking the culture in Sweden into account vs ours if we'd done that we'd be looking like the UK right now

That, and Sweden isn't exactly crushing it. Poorer health outcomes than its Nordic neighbours with no equivalent outperformance in economy.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Indoor with 10 from 2 households sitting on couches with masks on is no different to 10 from 2 outdoor on a picnic blanket, as ive mentioned before the fact that those 10 people would be using the same bathroom is much much better than those 10 people sharing a bathroom with 250 other people in the park. When we have single digit cases it makes no difference, the risk is astronimically small

Interested to know what percentage of cases where you've got 10 people in one house, would all be wearing face masks, avoiding hand shakes and kisses etc, not sharing utensils etc. You know, following all the covid safe rules?

 

[owen87]

Interested to know what percentage of cases where you've got 10 people in one house, would all be wearing face masks, avoiding hand shakes and kisses etc, not sharing utensils etc. You know, following all the covid safe rules?

How many people do you imagine would actually follow all those rules once they're inside the house?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

How many people do you imagine would actually follow all those rules once they're inside the house?

That's what i'm asking. I would guess almost none.

 

[owen87]

That's what i'm asking. I would guess almost none.

I'd guess about the same, and I think those arguing they should be allowed to haves mates over for a BBQ, know that they wouldn't actually follow all those rules either.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I'd guess about the same, and I think those arguing they should be allowed to haves mates over for a BBQ, know that they wouldn't actually follow all those rules either.

They don't care for rules in the first place.

I love this time of year. AFL finals, spring carnival etc. But i'd rather experience these things differently this year if it means that we can f*** this virus off and get back to normal again without having to worry about anymore lockdowns. It's one year, not the end of the world!

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I'd guess about the same, and I think those arguing they should be allowed to haves mates over for a BBQ, know that they wouldn't actually follow all those rules either.

But they know better than the experts remember. There's hardly any virus left out there so she'll be right?

 

[Deliverance]

I'd suggest that a person like Pauline Hanson or Clive Palmer would set a new bar for incompetent government.

One only needs to look at what happened after 2016 in the US.

Its not a guarantee, but I'd prefer a politician who's had a career other than just, politician. There's at least a chance they'll have knowledge of and empathy for people of the electorate.
Obviously the Palmer's of the world are selfish *s, but they've got so much money, there's literally nothing you can do to stop them if their this driven.
Yep, US is a mess, because Trump tapped in to people's disdain for political "dynasties" like the Clintons.

 

[phantom13]

Interested to know what percentage of cases where you've got 10 people in one house, would all be wearing face masks, avoiding hand shakes and kisses etc, not sharing utensils etc. You know, following all the covid safe rules?

How many are doing that in a park?

 

[phantom13]

I realize few (if any) people share this opinion.

If I’m at my mum and dads, they’ve been in lockdown with no interaction for 6 months as have I. It is safer for me to be there with them, than it is to be in a park with 1000 other strangers. Same if I was at a mates place.

Everyone saying “you don’t have to share facilities” go and drink alchohol and eat chips or whatever with your mates and honestly tell me you’re not sharing space, sharing bags of chips, drinks and then toilets.

Having seen it at the inner city parks near me for the last month or so, it’s much much more likely to spread the virus than me and my wife with mates from 2/3 other households.

Any other arguments (it’s easier to police, people will break rules in houses) to me, are just dumb.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

How many are doing that in a park?

How many clusters have we had from people meeting in a park vs people meeting at someone's house when they shouldn't have? I get what you are saying and don't disagree that you are also at risk when meeting with others in a park but the numbers don't lie. Meeting indoors at people's houses in large groups has accounted for far more cases and clusters. It also played a significant role in our second wave.

 

[phantom13]

How many clusters have we had from people meeting in a park vs people meeting at someone's house when they shouldn't have? I get what you are saying and don't disagree that you are also at risk when meeting with others in a park but the numbers don't lie. Meeting indoors at people's houses in large groups has accounted for far more cases and clusters. It also played a significant role in our second wave.

We didn’t start the second wave with this few cases though. The likelihood of you running into someone ANYWHERE with covid now is so low, the likelihood of you running into a friend or family member (if you’re not being a total dickhead) is so small it shouldn’t even register.

 

[owen87]

if you’re not being a total dickhead

This is the problematic bit though

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I realize few (if any) people share this opinion.

If I’m at my mum and dads, they’ve been in lockdown with no interaction for 6 months as have I. It is safer for me to be there with them, than it is to be in a park with 1000 other strangers. Same if I was at a mates place.

Everyone saying “you don’t have to share facilities” go and drink alchohol and eat chips or whatever with your mates and honestly tell me you’re not sharing space, sharing bags of chips, drinks and then toilets.

Having seen it at the inner city parks near me for the last month or so, it’s much much more likely to spread the virus than me and my wife with mates from 2/3 other households.

Any other arguments (it’s easier to police, people will break rules in houses) to me, are just dumb.

I don't disagree. I could have gone and visited my brother yesterday for his birthday too. I could be pretty confident that none of us would have the virus without being 100% sure. But, you can't have rules for some and not for others. Likewise, some will follow the rules, others won't.

Is it the end of the world that I didn't see my brother on his Birthday? Nope. We'll catch up at the park this weekend.

 

[Deliverance]

Yeah I wouldn't trust you to run a meat raffle my mans.

Anyone that is citing anything as being the most successful or least successful at this early stage is clearly not impartial.

Yep, this is here for years to come. I wouldn't even celebrate the Aussie response yet considering how rampant it is OS.

How we recover from increased mental health issues, educations destroyed, increased DV, reduced cancer screenings etc caused by lockdowns, is also part of the equation.

 

[Golden_6]

We didn’t start the second wave with this few cases though. The likelihood of you running into someone ANYWHERE with covid now is so low, the likelihood of you running into a friend or family member (if you’re not being a total dickhead) is so small it shouldn’t even register.

I’m pretty sure we got down to less than 50 active cases last time, less than half of what it is now.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

We didn’t start the second wave with this few cases though. The likelihood of you running into someone ANYWHERE with covid now is so low, the likelihood of you running into a friend or family member (if you’re not being a total dickhead) is so small it shouldn’t even register.

We were mostly in daily single figures before the second wave and that even included positives from people in HQ. So, it did get this low.

Then, a few people from hotel quarantine catch the virus. One has an aged care worker or nurse as a housemate who continues to go to work when they should have been isolated at home, another decides to go to some large family gathering at a relatives house and the whole thing blows up in our faces. Before we know it..... stage 4 lockdowns!