Coronavirus and Football

Remove this Banner Ad

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Dec 22, 2009
40,873
17,866
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, LFC, MVFC, RC Strasbourg
If a contract is to be extended all parties to it need to agree to the extension. You can't set up a new rule in the football rulebook overriding contract law.
It all depends on what the rules are. La Liga contracts for example have to include a unilateral contract termination upon a set fee being paid to the players club.

Nothing stopping the PL from making it mandatory in all new deals signed if its agreed by the clubs.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
54,958
17,590
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
It all depends on what the rules are. La Liga contracts for example have to include a unilateral contract termination upon a set fee being paid to the players club.

Nothing stopping the PL from making it mandatory in all new deals signed if its agreed by the clubs.
Won't happen.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Aug 3, 2008
97,927
59,169
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
Is Liverpool offering Nathaniel Clyne an extension?

I don't agree that it's an ownership problem and not a football problem. The season runs from August to May and peoples contracts are based on that. The fact that it's been extended will effect some clubs more than it will affect others. Wouldn't have a clue if Hull tried to lowball their players, I don't think it's particular relevant if they did or didn't.
I would think it's relevant to players not wanting to sign extensions.

I see Fraser hasn't signed one for Bournemouth, is he the first notable PL player?
 

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Dec 22, 2009
40,873
17,866
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, LFC, MVFC, RC Strasbourg
Won't happen.
That'll be up to the clubs, the PL and the FA to decide. Unilateral contact terminations also contradict contract law but are part of every La Liga contract because that's the rules for any player wishing to sign a contract in that league. Barca absolutely did not want to end Neymar's contract but had to due to league rules, not contract law. It would make sense to make some kind of provision for a scenario we currently face in the future however unlikely a repeat scenario may be.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
54,958
17,590
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
That'll be up to the clubs, the PL and the FA to decide. Unilateral contact terminations also contradict contract law but are part of every La Liga contract because that's the rules for any player wishing to sign a contract in that league. Barca absolutely did not want to end Neymar's contract but had to due to league rules, not contract law. It would make sense to make some kind of provision for a scenario we currently face in the future however unlikely a repeat scenario may be.
Football regulations can't overrule statute.

Football once had a rule where you were tied to a club (contracted or uncontracted) until you were released. Bloke called Bosman thought otherwise.
 

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Dec 22, 2009
40,873
17,866
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, LFC, MVFC, RC Strasbourg
Football regulations can't overrule statute.

Football once had a rule where you were tied to a club (contracted or uncontracted) until you were released. Bloke called Bosman thought otherwise.
They do right now in Spain with mandatory termination clauses. Bosman is different in that players were out of contract.

AFL another example, players do not have freedom of signing contracts where they please. Even when they are out of contract.

Both these competitions have rules that override statutes right now.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
54,958
17,590
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
They do right now in Spain with mandatory termination clauses. Bosman is different in that players were out of contract.
And you're talking about the football industry bringing in a rule forcing out of contract players to extend them.

Buyout clauses in Spain are a legal right, not a footballing rule.
 
Last edited:

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Dec 22, 2009
40,873
17,866
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, LFC, MVFC, RC Strasbourg
And you're talking about the football industry bringing in a rule forcing out of contract players to extend them.
Unforseen, unlikely circumstamces need provisions and regulations to protect both parties.

Going by your logic Nike should be kitting out Liverpool for the rest of the season.

Could be worse. AFL players out of contract are forced to sign contracts with whatever clubs their previous employer trades players with.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
54,958
17,590
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
Unforseen, unlikely circumstamces need provisions and regulations to protect both parties.

Going by your logic Nike should be kitting out Liverpool for the rest of the season.

Could be worse. AFL players out of contract are forced to sign contracts with whatever clubs their previous employer trades players with.
It's not my logic, it's the law.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
54,958
17,590
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
And on Nike supplying Liverpools kit, all three parties (Liverpool, Nike and New Balance) agreed to delay the new kit. Which is perfectly reasonable.
 

ADL9798

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2009
12,479
14,152
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool
Correct.

For reference, Germany were averaging about 700 new cases per day when they restarted on 16 May. 3 weeks before that on 25 April, they were averaging about 1800 new cases per day.

The Premier League is about 3 weeks away from restarting, and the UK are averaging about 1900 new cases per day.

And this is where I’ve said previously, the league need to be responsive to the epidemiological data, by all means make plans based on a particular scenario, but be prepared to pull the plug if cases aren’t declining at the rate they expected and that scenario doesn’t eventuate.

They also need to keep a very close eye on whether the Bundesliga’s call to restart at that point is associated with any outbreaks over there, and whether there are any lessons to learn regarding infection control.
And here we are 3 weeks later, the UK averaging around 300 new cases per day during the week leading up to the restart. The risk isn’t zero, but it’s certainly declined significantly while we’ve been having these conversations over the last month or 2.

2AE05935-59A8-4AEA-9EA0-DA82106C30B9.png
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,800
AFL Club
Hawthorn
And here we are 3 weeks later, the UK averaging around 300 cases per day during the week leading up to the restart. The risk isn’t zero, but it’s certainly declined significantly while we’ve been having these conversations over the last month or 2.

View attachment 894934
These graphs are all out by some margin. The U.K. death toll is currently unofficially around 67,000, which is about a 40% increase on the current official figure. You can similarly adjust the new cases stats given. It’s still a downward trend, and we won’t see an upward trend yet, but it will likely start rebounding in September according to the experts
 

ADL9798

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2009
12,479
14,152
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool
These graphs are all out by some margin. The U.K. death toll is currently unofficially around 67,000, which is about a 40% increase on the current official figure. You can similarly adjust the new cases stats given. It’s still a downward trend, and we won’t see an upward trend yet, but it will likely start rebounding in September according to the experts
Correct.

Regarding deaths - you’re referring to the excess mortality figures, which I agree are a good approximation, but even they are trending back towards ‘normal’ range based on historical mortality rates. I find this guy a really useful source for this data:

New lab confirmed cases will never perfectly reflect true incidence (all new infections, diagnosed + undiagnosed - the dodgy looking red line scribbled on the figure below), but as testing rates have increased over time, we can be more confident that lab confirmed cases will have become a closer approximation to true incidence (the red and black lines will get closer together).
7E4F04B5-ED7D-4BF1-8EF6-330897E3AD00.jpeg


As incidence declines and infected people recover, you have fewer active cases in the community to worry about as potential sources of outbreaks. Bottom line - football restarting this week is a completely different prospect to football restarting a month ago, which is the point I’ve been making all along. Time will tell if there is a sustained resurgence in cases in the UK like we’ve seen in some US states. It is a risk, but one that can be mitigated by the actions of the UK government and of the general public.
 

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,800
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Correct.

Regarding deaths - you’re referring to the excess mortality figures, which I agree are a good approximation, but even they are trending back towards ‘normal’ range based on historical mortality rates. I find this guy a really useful source for this data:

New lab confirmed cases will never perfectly reflect true incidence (all new infections, diagnosed + undiagnosed - the dodgy looking red line scribbled on the figure below), but as testing rates have increased over time, we can be more confident that lab confirmed cases will have become a closer approximation to true incidence (the red and black lines will get closer together).
View attachment 894939

As incidence declines and infected people recover, you have fewer active cases in the community to worry about as potential sources of outbreaks. Bottom line - football restarting this week is a completely different prospect to football restarting a month ago, which is the point I’ve been making all along. Time will tell if there is a sustained resurgence in cases in the UK like we’ve seen in some US states. It is a risk, but one that can be mitigated by the actions of the UK government and of the general public.
Not going to argue with those stats and figures and what you typed but you have overlooked one factor - as in the US there are regions that differ wholly from one another in the U.K also. I believe in some areas the outbreak is at its peak, while in others that were driving the new cases and deaths like London and the West Midlands have greatly reduced and the outbreak has almost been contained for the moment.

The argument for football restarting has been won for those in favour of it. Over time that may change. This board welcomes it return which is no surprise being largely shielded from the pandemic in Australia, but there’s a lot of dissent here in the U.K. about its return and many find it absurd. On a personal basis, my love for football may never recover to the level it was such has the perspective of the last few months refocused me. Just listening to Sky Sports banging on about how important it is to have football back makes my toes curl.
 

ADL9798

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2009
12,479
14,152
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool
Not going to argue with those stats and figures and what you typed but you have overlooked one factor - as in the US there are regions that differ wholly from one another in the U.K also. I believe in some areas the outbreak is at its peak, while in others that were driving the new cases and deaths like London and the West Midlands have greatly reduced and the outbreak has almost been contained for the moment.

The argument for football restarting has been won for those in favour of it. Over time that may change. This board welcomes it return which is no surprise being largely shielded from the pandemic in Australia, but there’s a lot of dissent here in the U.K. about its return and many find it absurd. On a personal basis, my love for football may never recover to the level it was such has the perspective of the last few months refocused me. Just listening to Sky Sports banging on about how important it is to have football back makes my toes curl.
I don’t think many people look at it as ‘winning’, or are cheerleading for a certain outcome regardless of the circumstances. I certainly don’t/haven’t, contrary to the words which others have put in my mouth on occasion over the last few months.

Those circumstances are changing from week to week, as are various decisions which affect how football and society more broadly will function within this new COVID normal, so naturally people are going to provide commentary on that.

It’s a shame you’ve been so put off football.

Personally, when it’s back on, I’ll watch it, not because I think it’s hugely important in the present context, but because like exercising or socialising I find it a good release from the stressors in my life. I’m sure others are in the same boat.

I know you’re a passionate advocate for freedom of speech/opinion, so I’m sure you don’t have an issue with people having different positions on this. But, if people watching or wanting to talk about football antagonises or distresses you, then ultimately you do have the option of switching off the TV and not reading forums like this.
 
Last edited:

jd2010

#freewelly #bringbackbojan
Feb 1, 2010
30,287
14,662
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
Naples post Napoli's win over Juventus. Game played behind closed doors, 300+ new cases a day & over 20k active cases in Italy

1592544746510.png
 

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,800
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I don’t think many people look at it as ‘winning’, or are cheerleading for a certain outcome regardless of the circumstances. I certainly don’t/haven’t, contrary to the words which others have put in my mouth on occasion over the last few months.

Those circumstances are changing from week to week, as are various decisions which affect how football and society more broadly will function within this new COVID normal, so naturally people are going to provide commentary on that.

It’s a shame you’ve been so put off football.

Personally, when it’s back on, I’ll watch it, not because I think it’s hugely important in the present context, but because like exercising or socialising I find it a good release from the stressors in my life. I’m sure others are in the same boat.

I know you’re a passionate advocate for freedom of speech/opinion, so I’m sure you don’t have an issue with people having different positions on this. But, if people watching or wanting to talk about football antagonises or distresses you, then ultimately you do have the option of switching off the TV and not reading forums like this.
Firstly there is no issue for me as regards people having different opinions to mine regarding the restart. I understand different people need different things to sustain them, something that will never change. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to imply people talking about football “antagonises” me, a slightly disingenuous comment that one, but thanks for the tip I never thought about not watching football or logging off of BF. Handy.

Football will continue obviously, and maybe I will click back into it on some degree as soon as Friday when Spurs play. But I’m just here offering a perspective that is different to the vast majority of you, being resident in the country where this is taking place. If you don’t like hearing that opinion then maybe it’s for you to analyse why that is rather than trying to turn it all on me. All opinions regarding the restart are valid because all are prevalent; Lot of people really don’t want it back, just as many are kind of “meh” about it while there are also many who are desperate for it to return. We all share this space to express our opinions amongst each other on anything (well for some not anything now) as we have for a number of years. If we all agreed on every single matter discussion forums would be utterly pointless
 

jd2010

#freewelly #bringbackbojan
Feb 1, 2010
30,287
14,662
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
Firstly there is no issue for me as regards people having different opinions to mine regarding the restart. I understand different people need different things to sustain them, something that will never change. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to imply people talking about football “antagonises” me, a slightly disingenuous comment that one, but thanks for the tip I never thought about not watching football or logging off of BF. Handy.

Football will continue obviously, and maybe I will click back into it on some degree as soon as Friday when Spurs play. But I’m just here offering a perspective that is different to the vast majority of you, being resident in the country where this is taking place. If you don’t like hearing that opinion then maybe it’s for you to analyse why that is rather than trying to turn it all on me. All opinions regarding the restart are valid because all are prevalent; Lot of people really don’t want it back, just as many are kind of “meh” about it while there are also many who are desperate for it to return. We all share this space to express our opinions amongst each other on anything (well for some not anything now) as we have for a number of years. If we all agreed on every single matter discussion forums would be utterly pointless
Chances of the Naples scenes being replicated in the UK?
 

jd2010

#freewelly #bringbackbojan
Feb 1, 2010
30,287
14,662
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
You’d think big. Social distancing is hardly a thing now anyway as we saw with the protests over the last couple of weeks. Liverpool fans (who have always been a rule unto themselves) will almost certainly congregate en mass
Yeah expecting that up there next week. What about just in general outside grounds or in pubs or on main street outside of Liverpool?
 

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,800
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yeah expecting that up there next week. What about just in general outside grounds or in pubs or on main street outside of Liverpool?
I don’t think so, maybe the diehards like the AFTV crowd for example you can imagine being present. There won’t be anything like at Napoli though except with Liverpool. Maybe the teams who avoid relegation there will be something similar. Will be interesting to see the volume at the spurs game tonight will give a good barometer
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Aug 3, 2008
97,927
59,169
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
Geez that would be pretty ordinary if they offered reduced terms for the remainder of the season.
Not even reduced terms, they wanted the players to play for free. Been confirmed now.

All very, very messy.

Sacked Irvine and Lichaj in the middle of a training session because they refused and had the temerity to request their one year extension be extended with a clause that if we were relegated they would be released (in order to protect the club from the wages if we went to League One).
 

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Dec 22, 2009
40,873
17,866
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, LFC, MVFC, RC Strasbourg
Not even reduced terms, they wanted the players to play for free. Been confirmed now.

All very, very messy.

Sacked Irvine and Lichaj in the middle of a training session because they refused and had the temerity to request their one year extension be extended with a clause that if we were relegated they would be released (in order to protect the club from the wages if we went to League One).
WTF
 

Top Bottom