News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III - L6ckdown

[Mcarcherey]

You need to put up sources when you make outrageous claims like the vaccine has been shown to give people COVID. That is quite frankly anti-vax conspiracy theory nonsense.

The reason why we can stop lockdowns at 80% is that even though vaccinated people can still catch and pass on the virus the likelihood that they will do so is vastly reduced and the consequences of catching the virus are significantly reduced. All the available vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid. That doesn't mean there will be no hospitalisations or deaths but that is how we learn to live with a virus that isn't going away anytime soon. We can't continue to lockdown. It is doing so much damage at many levels to our society.

seen a few articles about it around the place, didn't dive deeply into it so i won't bother posting, just thought it was reported in the MSM by now, but obviously still in the conspiracy stage. Also just realised that it won't be able to be proven because vaxxed persons may've had COVID before they were vaxxed.

here is the cruise ship article -

Vaccinated Cruise Ship Crew Members and Passengers Test Positive for COVID-19

The announcement comes as the ship was set to dock in Belize

www.voanews.com

don't know the specifics about Vic, thought it was the same as WA - but the goal is elimination, not 'live with the virus'. IMO i can't see australia coming out of lock downs, only have to look at this board to see how fearful people are of the virus.

 

[Mcarcherey]

So, are you saying that:

• it hasn't been proven that unvaxxed people spread Covid
• the Vaccine (which one?) gives people Covid
• and then Vaxxed people are spreading Covid?

With the exception of the fact that people can still catch and pass on Covid after vaccination, yes, your statements are probably seen still to be anti science.

1. nope - that's a total fabrication
2. nope
3. yes - this is anti science now?...umm https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pa...members-and-passengers-test-positive-covid-19

 

[Mcarcherey]

Morans will moran.

especially when you can't paraphrase to save yourself. total fabrications.

 

[Lomas]

1. nope - that's a total fabrication
2. nope
3. yes - this is anti science now?...umm https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pa...members-and-passengers-test-positive-covid-19

I clearly stated that people who have been vaccinated can catch and pass on the virus.
I am glad that don't think people catch Covid from vaccines, and no-one who has every caught it was unvaccinated. That would be some next level crazy.

 

[Merlin007]

Has anyone given an explanation of why construction is allowed to stay open, other than Dan being in the Unions' pockets?

well, the full detail is construction can stay open, but only with 25% of the workforce on-site

 

[Swallow_Wood]

especially when you can't paraphrase to save yourself. total fabrications.

 

[7577969923]

seen a few articles about it around the place, didn't dive deeply into it so i won't bother posting, just thought it was reported in the MSM by now, but obviously still in the conspiracy stage. Also just realised that it won't be able to be proven because vaxxed persons may've had COVID before they were vaxxed.

here is the cruise ship article -

Vaccinated Cruise Ship Crew Members and Passengers Test Positive for COVID-19

The announcement comes as the ship was set to dock in Belize

www.voanews.com

don't know the specifics about Vic, thought it was the same as WA - but the goal is elimination, not 'live with the virus'. IMO i can't see australia coming out of lock downs, only have to look at this board to see how fearful people are of the virus.

So you made a completely outrageous anti-vax comment about vaccines spreading the virus with zero proof.We all need to be careful not to do that.

No one has ever claimed that vaccines would be 100% effective in stopping the spread of the virus. that was pretty clear if you read any of the commentaries from the epidemiologists over the past 18 months. They are highly, highly effective at preventing serious illness and death.

Your comment about one of the passengers/crew members being infected before the impact of being fully vaccinated kicks in could be true. Hard to know. It could also be that one of them acquired it post-vaccination and spread it to the other crew members. The important sentence in the article is "All 27 were fully vaccinated and had only mild or no symptoms." That is what living with covid is.

Elimination on an ongoing basis is not possible. The virus is too contagious and we can't keep locking down in perpetuity. That would do far more damage than living with the virus in a highly vaccinated populace.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Mcarcherey]

To be convicted of a crime it has to shown beyond reasonable doubt. It won't be easy to do.

Now that is only gonna happen with contact tracing and the like, but the threat of it should be a deterrent to people who are otherwise law abiding but don't like this situation.

The campaigner who spread it up here left his home while his wife was sick with COVID and they both knew she had it. Its fu**en tempting to go into Lismore if (he is still in that hospital) and extend his stay by however long it takes them to fix his spine. If anyone up here gets it then its on that fu** wit's head. I used to play footy in Nimbin, so i know a few of those street dealers who would come watch us and some would play for us.

Many of them are homeless, with mental health issues and the like and frankly a place like Nimbin where they could essentially exist, make a bit of cash, get looked after (and kept in line to a degree) and have you but the crackdown over the last decade/15 years has made that all alot harder. I spoke to one of them on the phone about this guy from Sydney. One of his kids was allegedly in town buying weed last week. The person who allegedly sold them the weed was walking around town the other day talking to people and not social distancing. But that person has no where to live either so I dunno where else he'd go. He was coming up to people, like the guy I spoke to, not social distancing or anything. Even the guy i spoke to - he is a GODees supporter so trying to tell him to not go to mates places to watch the footy (cos he has no tv and the pub is shut) yesterday was really difficult.

I know I'm being a campaigner, but he is now potentially infectious and wants to go watch the game at a mutual friends with serious lung issues. FFS.

So anyway if the pricks from Sydney were still infectious there is a chance that there will be a big outbreak around Nimbin.

i think having the threat of being charged with spreading the virus when vaxxed people can spread it is a little....fascist. Alas 99% of people in this thread seem to want to vaccine to be mandatory so it won't matter in this echo chamber will fall on deaf ears.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Mr_Nyah]

well, the full detail is construction can stay open, but only with 25% of the workforce on-site

Ok. Why are construction sites allowed to stay open with 25% capacity? We follow the health advice here don't we? Is the health advice that it's actually better for Victorian health for construction sites to stay open?

 

[Merlin007]

Ok. Why are construction sites allowed to stay open with 25% capacity? We follow the health advice here don't we? Is the health advice that it's actually better for Victorian health for construction sites to stay open?

I don't know enough about civil engineering, but it's not inconceivable sites would need care and maintenance so stuff doesn't start falling apart half built - I wouldn't have thought you could do much else with a quarter of the workforce

 

[Mcarcherey]

So you made a completely outrageous anti-vax comment about vaccines spreading the virus with zero proof.We all need to be careful not to do that.

No one has ever claimed that vaccines would be 100% effective in stopping the spread of the virus. that was pretty clear if you read any of the commentaries from the epidemiologists over the past 18 months. They are highly, highly effective at preventing serious illness and death.

Your comment about one of the passengers/crew members being infected before the impact of being fully vaccinated kicks in could be true. Hard to know. It could also be that one of them acquired it post-vaccination and spread it to the other crew members. The important sentence in the article is "All 27 were fully vaccinated and had only mild or no symptoms." That is what living with covid is.

Elimination on an ongoing basis is not possible. The virus is too contagious and we can't keep locking down in perpetuity. That would do far more damage than living with the virus in a highly vaccinated populace.

seemed to be damn big MSM news when it was proven that you can still catch COVID even when vaxxed, seems a bit like doublespeak now to say we knew that all along but okay, whatever you say.

i know we have to live with the virus, i said it from day dot. i'm just saying that i can't see Australians doing so when it's already over-inflated the effects on healthy young people let alone the unhealthy.

 

[Ry009]

Jesus Christ....

 

[Merlin007]

i think having the threat of being charged with spreading the virus when vaxxed people can spread it is a little....fascist. Alas 99% of people in this thread seem to want to vaccine to be mandatory so it won't matter in this echo chamber will fall on deaf ears.

I don't mind people not getting vaccinated so long as they don't ask me to pay for a spell in ICU when they get the virus. One of the issues with this disease, as you and others have pointed out, is that vaccination doesn't stop you getting COVID (or transmitting it), but it does moderate the severity of it in terms of hospitalisation and morbidity. I agree the 80% target seems to be a political invention, because if 20% of the population refuse the vaccine, eventually they are going to get COVID - as I say, so long as my taxes aren't paying the medical bills, I'm not all that fussed. On the other hand, if people refuse the vaccine and then want help when they inevitably fall ill - well, I'll be complaining more about that than you are about 'mandatory' vaccination

 

[Swallow_Wood]

i think having the threat of being charged with spreading the virus when vaxxed people can spread it is a little....fascist. Alas 99% of people in this thread seem to want to vaccine to be mandatory so it won't matter in this echo chamber will fall on deaf ears.

Not sure there is any point in typing this out as you seem impervious to facts, but here goes...


Unvaccinated people are far more likely to get Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to get really sick from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to end up in ICU from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to die from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to transmit Covid than vaccinated people.

This virus is not going anywhere and we will all need to get on with living with Covid.

The more unvaccinated people in the community the greater the threat of transmission, of hospitalisation, of death, of viral mutation.

The more vaccinated people in the community the less the threat of transmission, of hospitalisation, of death, of viral mutation.

Ergo, get ******* vaccinated!

 

[Merlin007]

Not sure there is any point in typing this pout as you seem impervious to facts, but here goes...


Unvaccinated people are far more likely to get Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to get really sick from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to end up in ICU from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to die from Covid than vaccinated people.

Unvaccinated people are far more likely to transmit Covid than vaccinated people.

This virus is not going anywhere and we will all need to get on with living with Covid.

The more unvaccinated people in the community the greater the treat of transmission, of hospitalisation, of death, of viral mutation.

The more vaccinated people in the community the less the treat of transmission, of hospitalisation, of death, of viral mutation.

Ergo, get ******* vaccinated!

oh, like, you're so..... ideological

 

[ferball]

We will need to get our head around the idea that more Australians will die from Covid when we do open up. Given the nature of this virus, the idea that we can keep our society Covid free is a fantasy.

It would be interesting to understand what proportion of our most vulnerable populations are vaccinated. If that is 90% plus we could probably open at less than the 70% to 80% without a material change in death rate. I don't want to sound callous but the reality is that from my understanding all of the fatalities in NSW, or very close to all, are people in vulnerable populations that have chosen not to get a vaccine that was available to them.

The 38 year old woman in Sydney who died had no pre existing conditions.

There may be others as well in the under 50 range who were healthy.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

I don't know enough about civil engineering, but it's not inconceivable sites would need care and maintenance so stuff doesn't start falling apart half built - I wouldn't have thought you could do much else with a quarter of the workforce

Entirely possible. I personally think the more likely explanation is that the Victorian government is making a trade-off between health advice and economic advice. I have no problem with that, it just contradicts the message we have been hearing for 18 months.

 

[ferball]

Whose this goose ? Sort of idiot who encourages " non-compliance "

His political party is responsible for our part in the * up in Kabul and I'll bet the federal branch of it didn't have its s**t together in time to protect the Aussies that are there and the people who worked with them over the last 20 years either.

We should send the campaigner over there.

Next month.

 

[big_e]

 

[big_e]

 

[ferball]

More than anything atm we need fewer punitive measures and desperately need the federal government to provide financial assistance so that people can actually stay home.

You can't expect people who love paycheck to paycheck to stay home and not work without significant federal financial assistance. It's just not feasible.

Zondor and the Tender Touch love this post. (Paycheck depending.)

 

[ferball]

As dan said, if you criminalize this then no one will get tested, no one will inform, people will just turn up to work infected.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

I'll settle for hitting campaigners in the knee with a block splitter.

 

[7577969923]

seemed to be damn big MSM news when it was proven that you can still catch COVID even when vaxxed, seems a bit like doublespeak now to say we knew that all along but okay, whatever you say.

i know we have to live with the virus, i said it from day dot. i'm just saying that i can't see Australians doing so when it's already over-inflated the effects on healthy young people let alone the unhealthy.

Perhaps you should dig a little deeper than MSM. The articles that I read were very clear that whilst the absolutely ideal outcome was a vaccine that completely prevented transmission was the absolute ideal outcome, it was more likely that we would get what we have got, one that prevents serious illness and death. All of the commentaries about Delta variant in relation to the vaccines have been along the lines of it is more transmissible, even for the vaccinated, but that the protection against serious illness was holding up.

I don't see how we had the capacity to live with it from day dot as we didn't have either a vaccine or any effective treatments. We now have the vaccines and some effective treatments with more not that far away from what I can tell. I also think you tend to undercook the impact it can have on healthy younger people. Yes, the chances they will die are much, much lower than the older population but there can still be a serious illness and long-term health impacts.

You are right in that it won't be easy for us to make the transition to living with Covid after our politicians have spent so much capital chasing zero deaths or using the prospect of death as a blunt weapon to coerce the public into accepting and complying with very harsh lockdown measures like curfews. Dan Andrews was back at it today.