News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III - Lockdown #5

Remove this Banner Ad

wolvesRoos

Premium Gold
Sep 13, 2014
1,283
1,555
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I think some of the criticism of the PM is unfair. It did look like they had made a great call to make our own AZ when europe and the uk were getting into arguements over supply. Unfortunately the side effect of the AZ and the medias handling of it has put off so many people we now have millions (a guess) of vacines available its just people dont want them.
 

King Corey

Moderator
Jun 9, 2001
29,380
94,230
Windy Hill Safe Injecting Room
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
St Johnstone
I think some of the criticism of the PM is unfair. It did look like they had made a great call to make our own AZ when europe and the uk were getting into arguements over supply. Unfortunately the side effect of the AZ and the medias handling of it has put off so many people we now have millions (a guess) of vacines available its just people dont want them.
Interesting take hasn’t considered it like that.
 

Just4Kicks

Senior List
Oct 21, 2013
288
315
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
1.FC Cologne
I think some of the criticism of the PM is unfair. It did look like they had made a great call to make our own AZ when europe and the uk were getting into arguements over supply. Unfortunately the side effect of the AZ and the medias handling of it has put off so many people we now have millions (a guess) of vacines available its just people dont want them.
I do agreed that it was unfortunate that we backed the wrong horse for local production. Saying that, we had no other choice. AZ was the only one we could make here in a reasonable time frame.The continuous de-funding and undermining of the science and research sector by the liberal government led to mRNA research and operations being closed down 2 years ago...
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Val Keating

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 27, 2017
13,642
29,265
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I think some of the criticism of the PM is unfair. It did look like they had made a great call to make our own AZ when europe and the uk were getting into arguements over supply. Unfortunately the side effect of the AZ and the medias handling of it has put off so many people we now have millions (a guess) of vacines available its just people dont want them.
He literally cancelled our Pfizer order.
 

Themanbun

Premiership Player
Apr 19, 2019
4,542
12,196
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Nurses at my parents' work are spinning them stories about Pfizer making people infertile, etc. Never been one to seek retribution on people's employment but it's ridiculous when people use their relative adjacency to a field to fill people's heads with BS.
 

7577969923

Premiership Player
Sep 20, 2018
4,830
12,209
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Nurses at my parents' work are spinning them stories about Pfizer making people infertile, etc. Never been one to seek retribution on people's employment but it's ridiculous when people use their relative adjacency to a field to fill people's heads with BS.
I'm gonna run with that now. "Nah it's okay babe, I've had the Pfizer vax." How successful do you think it will be?
 

Hojuman

조수미 사랑해요
May 20, 2012
14,752
41,336
Seoul
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Nurses at my parents' work are spinning them stories about Pfizer making people infertile, etc. Never been one to seek retribution on people's employment but it's ridiculous when people use their relative adjacency to a field to fill people's heads with BS.

That is appalling ! Door is >>>>> that way.

Wouldn't have picked CHO Sutton to have the upper arm tatts.
 
Last edited:

Hearts to hearts

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 16, 2001
20,834
37,423
Melbourne VIC
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Wales, Eastwood, West Ham
I think some of the criticism of the PM is unfair. It did look like they had made a great call to make our own AZ when europe and the uk were getting into arguements over supply. Unfortunately the side effect of the AZ and the medias handling of it has put off so many people we now have millions (a guess) of vacines available its just people dont want them.
To be fair, its hard for the media to overdramatise an announcement the government chooses to make breathlessly late at night about the change in ATAGI advice. (Same for Dan’s late night, breaking into programming presser action last year - if news is put out lie, this, the media is hardly going to downplay it.)
 

Billy Not Really

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 7, 2018
5,331
12,733
Licking windows at the back of the bus.
AFL Club
North Melbourne
44-year-old Tasmanian man dies following first AZ dose, TGA says.
The TGA has put out its weekly report.
In this, they have noted two people have died after receiving the first dose of the AZ vaccine:

This Tasmanian death was also just confirmed at the Tasmanian Covid-19 update.


Yeah not good...
This has happened more than once to people who took this particular vax.

In a sane world this gets recalled immediately, but for some reason it's still being distributed despite this. Highly unethical.
 

7577969923

Premiership Player
Sep 20, 2018
4,830
12,209
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This has happened more than once to people who took this particular vax.

In a sane world this gets recalled immediately, but for some reason it's still being distributed despite this. Highly unethical.
Yeah nah. Several million people have had the AZ vaccine with less than a handful of outcomes like this. There have been 32,427 confirmed cases of covid in Australia and 915 deaths. There is no zero risk alternative and the vaccine is by far the lesser of two evils. The UK has vaccinated 46 million with AZ.
 

Forever North

Club Legend
Apr 24, 2011
1,444
3,424
Greek Islands
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This has happened more than once to people who took this particular vax.

In a sane world this gets recalled immediately, but for some reason it's still being distributed despite this. Highly unethical.
So do we recall every single medication that causes a death? Unfortunately this is the reality of any medication, there will be severe side effects and deaths for some. It reacts differently to different people. 6 million doses of AZ for 6 deaths in Australia. Imagine the death rate if 6 million Australians get covid. I think there is 1 death for every 1000 that take the pill. The odds of death for most other medications is also much higher than the AZ vaccine. To me it’s all about the odds. A one in a million chance of death hasn’t stopped me from getting vaccinated.
Anyhow, today I spoke to a relative who is a professor of Bio-Medicine at a major Australian university. Even his elderly in laws have fallen for the anti vax fear-mongering bullshit and are ‘scared’ to have the AZ jab even though he is an expert in this stuff. Says that both vaccines are pretty good but prefers the AZ as there is more reliable info on it.
 

Billy Not Really

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 7, 2018
5,331
12,733
Licking windows at the back of the bus.
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yeah nah. Several million people have had the AZ vaccine with less than a handful of outcomes like this. There have been 32,427 confirmed cases of covid in Australia and 915 deaths. There is no zero risk alternative and the vaccine is by far the lesser of two evils. The UK has vaccinated 46 million with AZ.
In any other circumstance of medicinal/drug tests it gets immediately recalled even if it’s just one outcome that’s how its always been. Doubly so when its experimental, which mRNA is.

But sure big number must mean big good.
 

Billy Not Really

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 7, 2018
5,331
12,733
Licking windows at the back of the bus.
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So do we recall every single medication that causes a death
Yes.

How do you think something like the FDA works in a situation that isn’t calling for getting something like this out the door ASAP.

Also those odds don’t conversely justify mandatory vaccination passports if the public either can’t get it due to low supply, it has adverse side effects or causes deaths, or has odds of reinfection even after both shots, is only available to certain age dempgraphics etc. etc. You only get to pick one lane.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

LuvtheKangas

Premium Platinum
Mar 11, 2006
19,871
46,906
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes.

How do you think something like the FDA works in a situation that isn’t calling for getting something like this out the door ASAP.

Also those odds don’t conversely justify mandatory vaccination passports if the public either can’t get it due to low supply, it has adverse side effects or causes deaths, or has odds of reinfection even after both shots, is only available to certain age dempgraphics etc. etc. You only get to pick one lane.
You do realise that other established vaccinations also have rare instances of extreme bad reactions, including death, don't you?
 

Forever North

Club Legend
Apr 24, 2011
1,444
3,424
Greek Islands
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes.

How do you think something like the FDA works in a situation that isn’t calling for getting something like this out the door ASAP.

Also those odds don’t conversely justify mandatory vaccination passports if the public either can’t get it due to low supply, it has adverse side effects or causes deaths, or has odds of reinfection even after both shots, is only available to certain age dempgraphics etc. etc. You only get to pick one lane.
So we just wait this virus out, live like we currently are, watch society crumble around us until a 100% bomb proof vaccine comes along in 5, 10, 20 years time?
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 24, 2012
6,834
16,968
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This has happened more than once to people who took this particular vax.

In a sane world this gets recalled immediately, but for some reason it's still being distributed despite this. Highly unethical.
Yeah there's always risk.

As of May 23 this year there had actually been more deaths related to Pfizer.

To 23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine and seven where the vaccine was not specified. Most of these reports (93%) were for people 65 years of age and over, and over three quarters were 75 years of age and over. Many of the deaths relate to elderly aged-care residents.
Some other relevant information:

The TGA reviews all deaths reported after vaccination and monitors for safety signals. Part of our analysis includes comparing expected natural death rates to observed death rates following immunisation. To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths.
Obviously this data is 8 weeks ago and the situation is always evolving, but it's instructive nevertheless, particularly around the common narrative out in the msm, community at large, etc

 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 24, 2012
6,834
16,968
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If people knew the associated risk involved in the drugs they ingest, medical procedures risks, etc, then we would all be living in a state of flux too scared to allow medicine to do anything to help us.

The focus on these drugs at the moment and the fear around their use and implementation is a massive case of pr mismanagement from our federal government as well as our state representatives.
 

Tectonic

8m46s
Jul 11, 2017
2,969
10,077
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Unfortunately, there is a slight risk of dying from anesthesia. Quantifying that risk is difficult because there are a lot of contributing factors that must be controlled. The risk of death solely attributable to anesthesia is approximately 1 in 185,000 according to anesthesia textbooks. However, looking at a large study that reviewed nearly 2.9 million people that had general anesthesia, the death rate was around 33 per 100,000 people, or equivalent to 3.3 in 10,000.

We should outlaw surgery and day procedures

Sure, it might be life saving, but at what cost
 

Themanbun

Premiership Player
Apr 19, 2019
4,542
12,196
AFL Club
North Melbourne

We should outlaw surgery and day procedures

Sure, it might be life saving, but at what cost
In Europe they don't use general anaesthetic anywhere near as much as we do, which I found interesting.
 

Themanbun

Premiership Player
Apr 19, 2019
4,542
12,196
AFL Club
North Melbourne
That is interesting. How do you mean?
Do they just not provide it as an option unless absolutely necessary?
Pretty much. They don't use a general unless it's necessary. Had a mate have a knee reco without, another have a mass cut from near his spine, and another had a tube go in one of the ends while being awake (can't remember if gastro or colonoscopy) which I found pretty weird.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 24, 2012
6,834
16,968
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne

We should outlaw surgery and day procedures

Sure, it might be life saving, but at what cost
I reckon it's an area the wider populace rarely have to consider and confront the associated risk.

The reactions you see when the anaesthetist says you could die from an intubation are pretty sobering for a lot of people.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 24, 2012
6,834
16,968
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Pretty much. They don't use a general unless it's necessary. Had a mate have a knee reco without, another have a mass cut from near his spine, and another had a tube go in one of the ends while being awake (can't remember if gastro or colonoscopy) which I found pretty weird.
Colonoscopy and gastroscopies are regularly heavy sedation only.
 

Remove this Banner Ad