News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III - L6ckdown

[Kangapirate]

Despite today being elimination day, the threat hotel quarantine poses is no doubt the reason why we still have restrictions.

 

[7577969923]

Agreed. The awful paradox is that the more the virus spreads the greater jeopardy any vaccine is put in.

How do you mean?

 

[ferball]

Melbourne airport has been essentially shut for months.

December 7 it opens back up to international travel to try and relieve stranded Australian's overseas. As it being shut has prevented something like 70,000 returning Australian's since it's been down.

So back to Hotel Quarentine v2.

Hopefully they have their sh*t together this time.

We have 0 active cases compared to QLD and NSW basically for this reason, no one has been coming in via plane, they have all been diverted to Sydney and QLD first when we were out of control and trying to just control community infection.

Expect cases to begin going back up (but in quarantine) from Dec 7 onwards. It's down to the Govt to prevent those infected in the hotels not to spread it again.

Personally, my preference would be to keep Melb Airport shut for the foreseeable future. Make all international travellers go in via NSW and quantine there.

Those states looked after themselves when they locked us out for the best part of 4 months. We should do the same now.

Take your own diseased plague vectors thanks.

 

[Themanbun]

How do you mean?

The more chances we give this virus to jump to other animals and mutate, the bigger the risk that a vaccine becomes obsolete against subsequent strains. That's been the commentary on the Danish minks, anyway.

 

[Wristo_]

Take your own diseased plague vectors thanks.

"Turn left heading 260, direct NIMBY, expect the STAR".

 

[ferball]

"Turn left heading 260, direct NIMBY, expect the STAR".

You're amazingly agile for a wrist O.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Side note. Saw an article the other day saying it looks like Quantas will probably move to Melbourne

Not probably but possibly and the same goes for Brisbane. Basically Joyces being courted by both cities and likely so the NSW gov’t will cough up a few more concessions their way.

 

[Val Keating]

Not probably but possibly and the same goes for Brisbane. Basically Joyces being courted by both cities and likely so the NSW gov’t will cough up a few more concessions their way.

Ahh smart. Using us like player managers used to use North for extra coin

 

[SpiderBurton22]

 

[Twinkletoes]

Ahh smart. Using us like player managers used to use North for extra coin

Precisely.

 

[D23D]

Judge Coate = The I'll Get My

Judge Coate = The Mahatma

 

[DaveyBoy123]

Victoria records one new death from COVID-19
A woman in her 70s has died from complication over her original COVID-19 diagnosis, according to the DHHS... There are no new cases and no active cases in the state... There were 5,030 tests conducted on Sunday.

On Twitter, the DHHS said the woman contracted the virus in July: "The case was a woman in her 70s who was part of a small group of cases diagnosed in late July. She was cleared as an active case in late Sept. In line w/ the national case definition, this is a COVID-related death as no recovery occurred from time of infection. Our condolences."

===

As you may have seen, Victoria has sadly recorded its first COVID-19 related death in more than a month... Many of you are asking how someone who was no longer considered an active case in September, could die of the virus in November.

The reason is the woman in her 70s never made a full recovery from the virus... So while she was not an active case, and therefore not considered a risk, she was still suffering the effects of the virus, which we know can have lasting effects and complications for those who contracted it... Therefore, because the woman has died due to issues which are a direct result of COVID-19, she has been classified as a COVID death.

 

[Pykie]

Victoria records one new death from COVID-19
A woman in her 70s has died from complication over her original COVID-19 diagnosis, according to the DHHS... There are no new cases and no active cases in the state... There were 5,030 tests conducted on Sunday.

On Twitter, the DHHS said the woman contracted the virus in July: "The case was a woman in her 70s who was part of a small group of cases diagnosed in late July. She was cleared as an active case in late Sept. In line w/ the national case definition, this is a COVID-related death as no recovery occurred from time of infection. Our condolences."

===

As you may have seen, Victoria has sadly recorded its first COVID-19 related death in more than a month... Many of you are asking how someone who was no longer considered an active case in September, could die of the virus in November.

The reason is the woman in her 70s never made a full recovery from the virus... So while she was not an active case, and therefore not considered a risk, she was still suffering the effects of the virus, which we know can have lasting effects and complications for those who contracted it... Therefore, because the woman has died due to issues which are a direct result of COVID-19, she has been classified as a COVID death.

This is one of the biggest issues of the virus that the vaccine isn't going to solve.

How many of the USA's 13m+ (or 62m+ worldwide) cases are in the elderly and still might claim lives 12 months/years down the track from ongoing complications we still don't fully know about and understand?

I'm guessing a decent percentage.

 

[Val Keating]

Who would have guessed

Leaked documents show China mishandled early COVID-19 pandemic: report

Leaked documents from China show the country mishandled the early COVID-19 pandemic through misleading public data and three-week delays in test results, CNN reported Monday. A whistleblower, …

thehill.com

 

[Kangapirate]

The whole back to the office 25% thing is turning into a bit of an anti climax, my aunt is a cleaner in the cbd, she returned to work yesterday only to be told she will be stood down again on Friday as hardly anyone bothered to return.

 

[Tas]

Victoria records one new death from COVID-19
A woman in her 70s has died from complication over her original COVID-19 diagnosis, according to the DHHS... There are no new cases and no active cases in the state... There were 5,030 tests conducted on Sunday.

On Twitter, the DHHS said the woman contracted the virus in July: "The case was a woman in her 70s who was part of a small group of cases diagnosed in late July. She was cleared as an active case in late Sept. In line w/ the national case definition, this is a COVID-related death as no recovery occurred from time of infection. Our condolences."

===

As you may have seen, Victoria has sadly recorded its first COVID-19 related death in more than a month... Many of you are asking how someone who was no longer considered an active case in September, could die of the virus in November.

The reason is the woman in her 70s never made a full recovery from the virus... So while she was not an active case, and therefore not considered a risk, she was still suffering the effects of the virus, which we know can have lasting effects and complications for those who contracted it... Therefore, because the woman has died due to issues which are a direct result of COVID-19, she has been classified as a COVID death.

Not that it really matters, but I disagree with these kind of classifications. I guess getting hit by a car is a covid death as well if you didn't recover completely.

Cause of death should have been natural causes. Old people often get ****ed up by a flu, they survive the flu, it is out of their system and they later die of natural causes months later. Being left weakened by an illness doesn't mean it is the cause of your death.

'The case was a woman in her 70s who was part of a small group of cases diagnosed in late July,' the Department of Health and Human Services tweeted on Monday.

'She was cleared as an active case in late September.'

But her death was classed as COVID-related as she never physically recovered from how the disease battered her body.

I haven't been the same since my colonoscopy, going to get them to stick that as my cause of death if I happen to kick the bucket.

 

[MagicDaw]

Not that it really matters, but I disagree with these kind of classifications. I guess getting hit by a car is a covid death as well if you didn't recover completely.

Cause of death should have been natural causes. Old people often get f’ed up by a flu, they survive the flu, it is out of their system and they later die of natural causes months later. Being left weakened by an illness doesn't mean it is the cause of your death.



I haven't been the same since my colonoscopy, going to get them to stick that as my cause of death if I happen to kick the bucket.

Yes the unfortunate effects of getting older are that the body recovers slower and most of the time not fully. Also our immune system weakens.

Cancer, Alzheimer's, Stroke, heart and lung disease are the most common causes of death in the elderly. These diseases weaken the body immensely, but what tips them over the edge are often very common causes like the flu, Bronchitis, pneumonia and now Covid.

Doctors don't put the flu on a cancer patient's death certificate!

I know they did mention it, but I would like to know the exact numbers of people dying from covid with pre existing conditions and without pre existing conditions.

 

[Themanbun]

Not that it really matters, but I disagree with these kind of classifications. I guess getting hit by a car is a covid death as well if you didn't recover completely.

Cause of death should have been natural causes. Old people often get f’ed up by a flu, they survive the flu, it is out of their system and they later die of natural causes months later. Being left weakened by an illness doesn't mean it is the cause of your death.



I haven't been the same since my colonoscopy, going to get them to stick that as my cause of death if I happen to kick the bucket.

This type of classification isn't unique to covid. Rheumatic heart disease for example (an evolution of strep throat) is attributed as a cause of death and assigned mortality rates even where the actual mechanism of death is heart failure or stroke.

Where a virus (or bacteria in the case of strep) does damage that leaves you a ticking time bomb it's completely fair enough to attribute that bomb going off to the virus IMO.

The 'hit by a car' analogy is pretty ridiculous. The actual mechanism of death from contagious diseases is never 'virus'. Viruses cause things such as heart failure, lung failure, stroke, hemorrhaging, etc. which are the actual mechanisms of death. They are still fatalities attributed to the virus in question, have been throughout history, and will continue to be so.

 

[Themanbun]

Doctors don't put the flu on a cancer patient's death certificate!

They absolutely do attribute such a death to influenza strain mortality rates, though, as they've also done in this case.

In my experience the 'secondary conditions' crowd are just using this as a crutch. They rarely like to think about the secondary conditions that they are a greater chance to have than they would think of at first thought (are you overweight? Do you smoke? Do you have asthma? Ever get hay fever? How's your blood pressure? Diabetes? Still got your tonsils? etc. the list goes on).

It's usually a cope to to justify the thought "I'll be fine. Because I'm healthy." Followed by that there's usually advocacy for some kind of reckless public health policy contrary to the scientific advice on flattening curves, etc.

The majority of people will be fine. We know that. However we only need to take a look at flooded ICU wards across Europe and hospital systems breaking down to realise that yes, although this thing will be relatively minor for a lot of people, if not most people, it still has the frightening ability to obliterate large parts of the population (yes, it may not be the holy and perfect young archetype without any 'pre-existing conditions') to the point where victims of this virus are making up the vast majority of ICU patients in affected areas. It's real, it's dangerous, and I'm bloody proud of us here in Australia for how we've dealt with this.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry if none of this applies to you in particular. But this is a general pet peeve of mine. I watched people all over the internet make these arguments and insensitively scream 'pre-existing condition' after a mid-40s father, an extended family associate of ours, died of this disease. All so they could justify their shitty attitude that can only really be summed up as only giving a damn about themselves.

 

[Val Keating]

We’re saved

 

[MagicDaw]

They absolutely do attribute such a death to influenza strain mortality rates, though, as they've also done in this case.

In my experience the 'secondary conditions' crowd are just using this as a crutch. They rarely like to think about the secondary conditions that they are a greater chance to have than they would think of at first thought (are you overweight? Do you smoke? Do you have asthma? Ever get hay fever? How's your blood pressure? Diabetes? Still got your tonsils? etc. the list goes on).

It's usually a cope to to justify the thought "I'll be fine. Because I'm healthy." Followed by that there's usually advocacy for some kind of reckless public health policy contrary to the scientific advice on flattening curves, etc.

The majority of people will be fine. We know that. However we only need to take a look at flooded ICU wards across Europe and hospital systems breaking down to realise that yes, although this thing will be relatively minor for a lot of people, if not most people, it still has the frightening ability to obliterate large parts of the population (yes, it may not be the holy and perfect young archetype without any 'pre-existing conditions') to the point where victims of this virus are making up the vast majority of ICU patients in affected areas. It's real, it's dangerous, and I'm bloody proud of us here in Australia for how we've dealt with this.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry if none of this applies to you in particular. But this is a general pet peeve of mine. I watched people all over the internet make these arguments and insensitively scream 'pre-existing condition' after a mid-40s father, an extended family associate of ours, died of this disease. All so they could justify their shitty attitude that can only really be summed up as only giving a damn about themselves.

Years ago a friend of mine looked into cause of death of Stroke patients.
From memory I think there was a group where the death certificate said stroke as cause of death and there might have been a group with suspected stroke.
Anyway the results showed a large number had not died of a stroke (think some didn't even have one), but of an infection of some sort after.
Doctors wrote stroke on the certificate as that was easier for the family to cope with.
Thing is they probably wouldn't have died if they didn't have a stroke before they caught the infection.
Agree with you that you don't have to have an underlying condition to die from Covid, but the chance goes up dramatically if you do have one. As is the case for many other diseases.

 

[B4Bear]

Despite today being elimination day, the threat hotel quarantine poses is no doubt the reason why we still have restrictions.

And just like that NSW and Saint Gladys are dealing with a problem.

Lessons were not learnt, she was too busy telling everyone else how to manage their states.

And once again, poorly paid staff have to work at multiple jobs and venues to earn a living. At what point will governments ensure these workers can earn enough to live by remaining at one site?

Where are the baseball bats?

 

[Kangapirate]

And just like that NSW and Saint Gladys are dealing with a problem.

Lessons were not learnt, she was too busy telling everyone else how to manage their states.

And once again, poorly paid staff have to work at multiple jobs and venues to earn a living. At what point will governments ensure these workers can earn enough to live by remaining at one site?

Where are the baseball bats?

I just think we are asking for trouble having our quarantine hotels in our cbds. This sort of thing seems inevitable, the worst part due to the location is an infected hotel worker, cleaner etc is almost certainly going to be using public transport all the time and that’s exactly what’s transpired here in NSW.

Unfortunately this would form part of the reason on why Dan is unlikely to budge on masks, from what I’ve read it sounds like this person was at least masked up, the combination of maskless and being on a packed train or tram could be disastrous.

 

[Themanbun]

I just think we are asking for trouble having our quarantine hotels in our cbds. This sort of thing seems inevitable, the worst part due to the location is an infected hotel worker, cleaner etc is almost certainly going to be using public transport all the time and that’s exactly what’s transpired here in NSW.

Unfortunately this would form part of the reason on why Dan is unlikely to budge on masks, from what I’ve read it sounds like this person was at least masked up, the combination of maskless and being on a packed train or tram could be disastrous.

Ideally we'd treat it with military on 'deployment' somewhere remote.

 

[ferball]

Ideally we'd treat it with military on 'deployment' somewhere remote.

Don't we have heaps of empty remote detention centres now the boats have stopped?