News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV

[Ligma]

What a piece of sh*t hey. Cutting medicare during the plandemic.

Literally, I feel like if he gets re elected, they will make even more cuts and privatise everything so that Medicare no longer exists and we will be just like the USA where if you’d be in life debt for a broken leg.

 

[So You Think]

And yet Victoria did exactly what you are advocating and our outbreak is at least on the same trajectory as NSW and we are now following essentially the same strategy. Mistakes have been made in dealing with the pandemic and Gladys has conceded she could have gone harder earlier. Even so, there is still no data point that supports the view that NSW has managed the pandemic worse than Victoria.

Well the actual curve is yet to be seen, at this point we certainly haven't had the peak that NSW have had so far. As I mentioned somewhere else, there's a long way to go yet.

 

[So You Think]

So You Think
Mate the 5G must of hacked you rip

More likely old blokes trying to use technology correctly.

 

[ferball]

Literally, I feel like if he gets re elected, they will make even more cuts and privatise everything so that Medicare no longer exists and we will be just like the USA where if you’d be in life debt for a broken leg.

Killing medicare used to be electoral poison for the Liberal party. One of the few things that was.

 

[Ligma]

More likely old blokes trying to use technology correctly.

Bloody boomers these days!!!!!!!!!

 

[Istanbul Roo]

Sorry but this may sound harsh, what the fu** have your parents got to do with me? They can stay home, I am not suggesting they venture outside.

And so can everyone else stay at home, right, who don't want to get sick or worse because we don't want to lock down. Nice for some.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

Sincere questions.
Are your parents vaccinated?
In your opinion at what stage do you think it will be safe for your parents and for the country to open up ?

Yes, both vaccinated, but they are 88. My father is fragile, and doesn't go out much.
Its a good genuine question, and as far as I read, 80% vaccination is an appropriate time to 'open up', with ongoing safety measures i.e. masks in public spaces.
Of course, I feel uneasy about the risks opening up holds for my parents and other vulnerable people. And I hope there are no anti-maskers who protest safety measures. But given the fact that there are both anti-vaxers, Covid denialists, conspirators, and people protesting lockdown even while so few people are fully vaccinated, I guess we wouldn't hold hold our breath there.

 

[Forever North]

Could get really ugly on the streets with this CFMEU flare up. It could really snowball. Andrews is telling them you can’t work anymore and must get vaccinated, it’s not going to end well with a lot of these guys. Setka is a very polarising figure within the union. A lot can’t stand him but he also has a lot of support from his ‘heavies’ that he looks after on the building sites and who pretty much keep everything and everyone in check. Throw in the anti vax element from within the workforce, the nazi *******s who infiltrated and agitated at today’s protest, the boofhead young angry tradies with plenty of cash who can’t go out to root and drink anymore, the self proclaimed celebrity anti vax you-tubers, the meathead bikies and their affiliates that ’earn an honest living’ on sites, the hardcore idealogical unionists, the normal everyday workers who just want to earn a living and be left alone, a worn out police force that has lost respect and authority and what might end up happening is the mother of all union brawls. It’s a powder keg ready to explode. I think this is what Andrews is trying to avoid more than anything here. Buy some time and hopefully let cooler heads prevail. Otherwise if his hardcore support base desert him then he’s pretty much screwed. If Andrews relents and lets them back on the job before the 2 weeks is up then it’ll be a massive slap in the face for every Victorian that has followed the CHO’s sometimes moronic ‘health advice’. One rule for us and another for the CFMEU mo…. There are spotfires all over the place at the moment. It’s not good at all.
I actually find Setka a bit if an idiot, he’s spoken a few times at MUA meetings and I just find him a buffoon, just swears incessantly and carries on.

 

[7577969923]

Yes, both vaccinated, but they are 88. My father is fragile, and doesn't go out much.
Its a good genuine question, and as far as I read, 80% vaccination is an appropriate time to 'open up', with ongoing safety measures i.e. masks in public spaces.
Of course, I feel uneasy about the risks opening up holds for my parents and other vulnerable people. And I hope there are no anti-maskers who protest safety measures. But given the fact that there are both anti-vaxers, Covid denialists, conspirators, and people protesting lockdown even while so few people are fully vaccinated, I guess we wouldn't hold hold our breath there.

This is a difficult and emotive issue.

People of your parent's age, even if vaccinated, are at far greater risk of covid than unvaccinated young adults. Data in NSW shows during the period from June 16 to August 14 17% of all those 80 and older that contracted Covid passed away. That rate is down from 22% in 2020 and will drop further as the proportion of the cohort fully vaccinated continues to increase, but is still significant.

That is not an outcome that is unique to covid. The same cohort faces much higher mortality risks from pretty much any illness you could think of. The obvious example is the seasonal flu. Whilst we take appropriate precautions and encourage vaccination by all against the seasonal flu, we don't take society-wide measures that restrict people's freedoms, damage their livelihoods and their mental health in an effort to eliminate the risk. The reality is that as a society we don't really do much at all to protect your parents from the flu and other illnesses that would pose a grave threat to them.

Covid is of course far more infectious than the flu which all else being equal will result in more cases, illness, and death. A bad flu season in Australia results in circa 300 deaths, an amount that hasn't even prompted debate about significantly increasing measures aimed at reducing it. This is the reality of public health policy - there are many deaths that occur every year in Australia that could have been prevented but it has been deemed that the cost to society of doing so is too high. We are approaching the time where we must grapple with those issues specifically in relation to covid.

The Delta strain has forced our two biggest states to accept that the virus can no longer be eliminated by testing, contact tracing, and lockdowns. The decision, always the most likely outcome in hindsight, has been made that learning to live with the virus in a highly vaccinated population is the only way forward. {I note that you seem to be in agreement with this approach) The implications of this are that even at 80% fully vaccinated we have decided that we will accept higher case numbers, illness, and death as a cost of getting society open and the economy back up and running again. I imagine that is a very difficult realisation for those with loved ones most at risk.

TAO may have expressed it fairly bluntly but his sentiments are actually the reality of where we are moving to. What really pisses me off is the 10% to 20% of Australians that are unwilling or reluctant to get get a very simple and safe vaccination. If everyone did the right thing the risk to your parents would be significantly further reduced.

 

[7577969923]

Literally, I feel like if he gets re elected, they will make even more cuts and privatise everything so that Medicare no longer exists and we will be just like the USA where if you’d be in life debt for a broken leg.

Can you point to specific cuts to Medicare that they have made? Can you point to the articulated policies from the coalition that informs your opinion on the future?

I feel your opinions are not based on reality or fact. Aside from anything getting rid of Medicare would be absolute political suicide for the LNP. As the saying goes turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even in the USA, the concept of a single-payer healthcare system has majority support. In Australia the support for universal healthcare is overwhelming. You just need to look at the last two elections where the ALP have run Mediscare campaigns.

 

[shintemaster]

Killing medicare used to be electoral poison for the Liberal party. One of the few things that was.

That's why they no longer take these to elections. It doesn't stop the action whilst in power. The ABC over the last half decade is the test case. State no funding cuts, then cut like crazy whilst in power. Medicare is just as easy to damage, potentially fatally.

 

[B4Bear]

Yeah, this sounds about right as to the mental capacity of the crackpots. View attachment 1241333

The nurses union should tell the thug union, that any member who presents with Covid-19 and is not vaccinated will go to the back of the ICU queue.

******* children.

 

[shintemaster]

Can you point to specific cuts to Medicare that they have made? Can you point to the articulated policies from the coalition that informs your opinion on the future?

I feel your opinions are not based on reality or fact. Aside from anything getting rid of Medicare would be absolute political suicide for the LNP. As the saying goes turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even in the USA, the concept of a single-payer healthcare system has majority support. In Australia the support for universal healthcare is overwhelming. You just need to look at the last two elections where the ALP have run Mediscare campaigns.

A simple google search would have answered this question.

Medicare rebates are getting a major overhaul — here's what it means for you

One of the biggest overhauls of the Medicare rebate system in decades is set to kick in next month, but doctors say more time is needed to figure out whether some patients will have to pay out-of-pocket costs.

www.abc.net.au

Articulated policy means little in the scheme of things, as you rightly point out Medicare is extremely popular with the elctorate. What matters is actions and the LNP have shown - as little as 2 months ago - that they are more than willing to chip away at this.

 

[Ligma]

Can you point to specific cuts to Medicare that they have made? Can you point to the articulated policies from the coalition that informs your opinion on the future?

I feel your opinions are not based on reality or fact. Aside from anything getting rid of Medicare would be absolute political suicide for the LNP. As the saying goes turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even in the USA, the concept of a single-payer healthcare system has majority support. In Australia the support for universal healthcare is overwhelming. You just need to look at the last two elections where the ALP have run Mediscare campaigns.

https://www.australianunions.org.au...w-will-new-changes-affect-your-medical-costs/

literally if you read that quote I wrote I literally said “FEEL” meaning it was my opinion based on his last cuts ^ if he is comfortable doing that then god knows what he will cut in the future, but you’re so tolerant

 

[B4Bear]

Can you point to specific cuts to Medicare that they have made? Can you point to the articulated policies from the coalition that informs your opinion on the future?

I feel your opinions are not based on reality or fact. Aside from anything getting rid of Medicare would be absolute political suicide for the LNP. As the saying goes turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even in the USA, the concept of a single-payer healthcare system has majority support. In Australia the support for universal healthcare is overwhelming. You just need to look at the last two elections where the ALP have run Mediscare campaigns.

They are getting rid of it by stealth. For example the schedule that a doctor gets for Bulk Billing, which is one of the central pillars of Medicare has not kept pace with anything like the costs of providing the service.

Consequently ill people present at state run hospitals once their condition worsens, when a simple trip to the doctor may have prevented it getting too bad. Then you add in the pandemic, and suddenly the state hospitals are over run.

And the federal government gets to wash its hands and tell the states they can not manage s**t.

It is conservatism 101. Under fund a service, note that the service doesn't fill the need, privatise the service and take kickbacks from the lobby industry for the now privatised service.

 

[7577969923]

A simple google search would have answered this question.

Medicare rebates are getting a major overhaul — here's what it means for you

One of the biggest overhauls of the Medicare rebate system in decades is set to kick in next month, but doctors say more time is needed to figure out whether some patients will have to pay out-of-pocket costs.

www.abc.net.au

Articulated policy means little in the scheme of things, as you rightly point out Medicare is extremely popular with the electorate. What matters is actions and the LNP have shown - as little as 2 months ago - that they are more than willing to chip away at this.

Did you actually read the article you posted? This is more about the reclassification of procedures for a variety of reasons, such as favouring keyhole procedures over open cut. There is nothing in the article that says this represents a cut to Medicare and all of the doctors they spoke to were supportive of the direction of the changes even if they had concerns with timing and execution:

"Anand Deva, a breast and hand surgery professor from Sydney Hospital, said some of the changes were overdue.

"It's about making sure the MBS schedule is used fairly, with less complexity, and reflects the actual procedure that was done," he said."

"The Australian Medical Association supports the changes to the MBS — but says it's concerned that the private healthcare sector will not be ready for the July 1 changes."

The idea that the LNP has cut Medicare is a Labor trope that is just not supported by the facts.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Could get really ugly on the streets with this CFMEU flare up. It could really snowball. Andrews is telling them you can’t work anymore and must get vaccinated, it’s not going to end well with a lot of these guys. Setka is a very polarising figure within the union. A lot can’t stand him but he also has a lot of support from his ‘heavies’ that he looks after on the building sites and who pretty much keep everything and everyone in check. Throw in the anti vax element from within the workforce, the nazi *******s who infiltrated and agitated at today’s protest, the boofhead young angry tradies with plenty of cash who can’t go out to root and drink anymore, the self proclaimed celebrity anti vax you-tubers, the meathead bikies and their affiliates that ’earn an honest living’ on sites, the hardcore idealogical unionists, the normal everyday workers who just want to earn a living and be left alone, a worn out police force that has lost respect and authority and what might end up happening is the mother of all union brawls. It’s a powder keg ready to explode. I think this is what Andrews is trying to avoid more than anything here. Buy some time and hopefully let cooler heads prevail. Otherwise if his hardcore support base desert him then he’s pretty much screwed. If Andrews relents and lets them back on the job before the 2 weeks is up then it’ll be a massive slap in the face for every Victorian that has followed the CHO’s sometimes moronic ‘health advice’. One rule for us and another for the CFMEU mo…. There are spotfires all over the place at the moment. It’s not good at all.
I actually find Setka a bit if an idiot, he’s spoken a few times at MUA meetings and I just find him a buffoon, just swears incessantly and carries on.

Absolutely a danger that a combination of resentful builders and anti-vax and anti-government infiltrators will keep escalating this, and that any negotiation then is seen as (and would be) a signal for the rest of Victoria to arc up more and/or stop following the rules they are given. There’s an element that will be energised, not appalled, at the anger and violence stepping up, and while the ACTU and union leaders have been quick to say it was right wing and anti vax agitators leading the way, it seems likely that (like the crowd breaking the lines on Saturday), while those people had a role, the crowd was a mix.

I‘m guessing though from what we’ve seen with the tea break shenanigans and the violence yesterday - and if the government is able to get across the message that the industry was already on warnings for widespread non-compliance - this won’t be an unpopular move. I expect the majority, even they resent the restrictions, don‘t appreciate this form of opposition to them from this group. And I assume for once the Murdoch media will be onside. Will be interesting to watch.

 

[7577969923]

https://www.australianunions.org.au...w-will-new-changes-affect-your-medical-costs/

literally if you read that quote I wrote I literally said “FEEL” meaning it was my opinion based on his last cuts ^ if he is comfortable doing that then god knows what he will cut in the future, but you’re so tolerant

Honestly, would you or any of your fellow travelers accept an article published by the LNP or, for example, the Business Council of Australia as a credible source.

Union propaganda is not a source that will advance debate.

 

[Ligma]

Honestly, would you or any of your fellow travelers accept an article published by the LNP or, for example, the Business Council of Australia as a credible source.

Union propaganda is not a source that will advance debate.

If you’re an LNP supporter just say that, I can have my own political views while you can have yours.

 

[7577969923]

If you’re an LNP supporter just say that, I can have my own political views while you can have yours.

Absolutely we can all have our own views. I'm just saying base those views on actual facts, not tropes and speculation.

 

[Hojuman]

Building next door to the CFMEU office's ?

Independent Order of Rechabites.

Just sayin'.

 

[Ligma]

Absolutely we can all have our own views. I'm just saying base those views on actual facts, not tropes and speculation.

LOL the Medicare cuts are facts because they happened, the projection I made is in fact (round of applause for you) Speculation just because there is kind of a trend in conservatism. Omfg that’s why I literally said ‘FEEL’ I never made it the end all be all.

 

[Val Keating]

I agree that today was hijacked by loonies, but the tea room hissy fit, sanctioned by Union leaders was was a terrible look. While many in the community can't work, these entitled jerks were sooking about unable to eat together in a tea room.

It’s not that black and white. Doesn’t matter now though.

 

[Val Keating]

There’s a bit of chatter around that members are going to turn up to confront the anti vaxxers that are planning to turn up at the CFMEU headquarters today. Could get ugly.

 

[7577969923]

LOL the Medicare cuts are facts because they happened, the projection I made is in fact (round of applause for you) Speculation just because there is kind of a trend in conservatism. Omfg that’s why I literally said ‘FEEL’ I never made it the end all be all.

I'm not being difficult or partisan here but what you have pointed to were largely administrative changes. The rebates on a range of things were cut and some were increased. There has been no overall cut to the level of Medicare spending or total health spending as the following table of actual data indicates: