News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV | NMFC player tests positive, in 14 day quarantine - Hun report does not name player

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Shinboner1

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Was there a dip in the graphs when the lockdowns etc were imposed, varied and lifted?

We needed some proper experiments i.e. a real lockdown in one area: Only allowed out for food and only once a week. Then something less restrictive and something less restrictive again.

I have seen a graph (on Tom Woods) that combined the stats from the 25 most locked down American states and the 25 least lockdown states and there was no real difference. He has provided many graphs each week from all over the world showing no response to Covid measures.

In my opinion these so called lockdowns (in areas where the virus is endemic) are trying to be a bit pregnant. To have an effect, they have to be far more restrictive.

My best mate has a PHd in virology and he told me nearly 18 months ago that the lockdown were unlikely to have any effect. We have never been able to effect the passage of an upper respiratory virus through the community. I poo pooed him at the time but he has been proven correct.
Lockdown works.
Its the idiots that dont wear masks to shops, go outside when they're sick and infect people that are ruining it for everyone else.
 

Horace

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So five people under the age of 80 are in those deaths.

Based on current life expectancy tables a 79 year old male is expected to live to the age of 87.88 years and a 79 year old female, to live to an age of 89.35.

Based on the same tables a 70 year old male is expected to live to the age of 84.40 years and a 70 year old female, to live to an age of 86.57.

In 2019 the average life expectancy at birth in Australia for a male was 81.5 years, and for a female, 85.4 years.

I think it is reasonable to deduct from those statistics, without knowing the ages of those in their 80's, perhaps only the 90 year old male had exceeded his life expectancy. Based on these statistics most of these people would not have expected to die at their current age. They have gone ahead of their time and most probably leave behind families, who still treasure the impact that they have had on their lives,and otherwise might have had for many years to come.

This in my view underlines the tragedy of covid-19.
 

7577969923

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The deaths include a man in his 20s, a man in his 40s, a man in his 60s, a woman in her 60s, two men in their 70s, two men in their 80s and a man in his 90s.

NSW Health says the man in his 20s who died after contracting Covid-19 had underlying health conditions.

Deputy Chief Health Oofficer Marianne Gale said seven of the nine people who died were not vaccinated.

“One person had one dose and one person had two doses. All those individuals had underlying health conditions,” she said.


It is very sad and frustrating when people are complicit in their own deaths.
 

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Forever North

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Lockdown works.
Its the idiots that dont wear masks to shops, go outside when they're sick and infect people that are ruining it for everyone else.
Lockdowns can possibly work if 100% of the population are 100% compliant and do the right things 100% of the time.….Otherwise it’s basically the sh*t show we’re in now. Governments and police turning a blind eye, going easy on certain people/community groups, a let’s tread on egg shells bureaucracy, a lack of transparency and slime bucket politicians constantly bitching and sniping amongst themselves to avoid blame and scrutiny just adds to people’s frustration, anger and unwillingness to be compliant. Doesn’t help either when your livelihood is being destroyed and children are going loopy whilst the above is the daily fare. So really lockdowns are now pretty much a band aid on a broken leg.
 

Shinboner1

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Lockdowns can possibly work if 100% of the population are 100% compliant and do the right things 100% of the time.….Otherwise it’s basically the sh*t show we’re in now. Governments and police turning a blind eye, going easy on certain people/community groups, a let’s tread on egg shells bureaucracy, a lack of transparency and slime bucket politicians constantly bitching and sniping amongst themselves to avoid blame and scrutiny just adds to people’s frustration, anger and unwillingness to be compliant. Doesn’t help either when your livelihood is being destroyed and children are going loopy whilst the above is the daily fare. So really lockdowns are now pretty much a band aid on a broken leg.
Well of course that's the situation.
Its like saying myki machines work if everyone uses them.
Agree there should be bigger punishments for those that break restrictions.
Wonder if those jewish guys praying even got a slap on the wrist.
 

7577969923

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Well of course that's the situation.
Its like saying myki machines work if everyone uses them.
Agree there should be bigger punishments for those that break restrictions.
Wonder if those jewish guys praying even got a slap on the wrist.
They will all get the maximum $5.4k fine. The ones that have taken their kids should get a multiple for each child.
 

travelli

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Lockdowns can possibly work if 100% of the population are 100% compliant and do the right things 100% of the time.….Otherwise it’s basically the sh*t show we’re in now. Governments and police turning a blind eye, going easy on certain people/community groups, a let’s tread on egg shells bureaucracy, a lack of transparency and slime bucket politicians constantly bitching and sniping amongst themselves to avoid blame and scrutiny just adds to people’s frustration, anger and unwillingness to be compliant. Doesn’t help either when your livelihood is being destroyed and children are going loopy whilst the above is the daily fare. So really lockdowns are now pretty much a band aid on a broken leg.
If the plan relies on 100% of the population are 100% compliant and do the right things 100% of the time, then it is a bad, unrealistic plan.
 

Tas

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You keep referencing the Israeli data point, which relates to hospitalisations not infections, as though it is some portent of doom for Australia.
I didn't say it is doom for Australia. I think the data shows that you can't really "go back to normal" without exposing a lot of people to the virus and that is going to expose people to a lot more risk than if you try and limit the spread of the virus.

As I highlighted the other day, our rates of death for unvaccinated people are relatively low by world standards and it is probably comparable to some highly vaccinated countries. That doesn't mean we shouldn't care if people get vaccinated or not either.

I just don't think vulnerable people deserve to be thrown under the bus because our federal government is incompetent and Dan is always slow on shutting borders down every time NSW fu**s up. If we were as quick the shut out the entire state as WA is, we wouldn't be in the shithole we are.

The article I'll copy below (parywall) explains why it isn't nearly as big a deal as you are making out and that the key message remains that vaccinations are the absolute key and that if you want to keep the pressure off the hospital system everyone over the age of 65 has to get vaccinated.

Coronavirus vaccines work. But this statistical illusion makes people think they don’t.
In Israel for a time, more vaccinated people were hospitalized for covid-19 than unvaccinated people. There’s no reason to worry.


By Jordan Ellenberg
Jordan Ellenberg, a math professor at the University of Wisconsin, is the author of "Shape: The Hidden Geometry of Information, Biology, Strategy, Democracy, and Everything Else."
August 31, 2021 at 6:00 a.m. EDT

Is the vaccine wearing off? It’s an exhausting thought for those of us who believed the battle against covid-19 would be won once enough needles plunged into enough arms. But outbreaks of the delta variant have blossomed even in places with high levels of vaccination, including Israel, Britain and my own home of Madison, Wis. Recent reports from Israel that nearly 60 percent of people hospitalized with severe covid-19 were fully vaccinated raised particular alarms about the limits of the protection that vaccines provide.

While there is other evidence that the vaccines’ protection against infection (not severe illness) declines over time — and also some evidence that booster shots work — we shouldn’t be overly concerned about the Israeli hospitalization statistics. The explanation involves a famous old statistical curveball called “Simpson’s paradox” — which isn’t really a paradox at all. It’s just a reminder of why you have to be careful with data.
Simpson’s paradox is a warning that the whole of the data often looks weirdly different than the sum of its parts. In the case of Israel — as a number of epidemiologists and other scholars have pointed out — what explains the surprising hospitalization figures is largely the relative ages of vaccinated and unvaccinated people. The University of Pennsylvania biostatistician Jeffrey Morris wrote an especially thorough and widely shared blog post making this point — although the post was not shared nearly as widely as the worry that vaccines aren’t helping you stay out of the intensive care unit. Anxiety travels halfway around the world while a spreadsheet is still getting its boots on.


Remember that a lot of Israelis are vaccinated, around 80 percent of the adult population. That’s important. If everyone were vaccinated, then all hospitalized people would be vaccinated — and that obviously wouldn’t mean vaccination was useless. In real-life Israel, as of Aug. 15 — using Morris’s summary of official data — 301 fully vaccinated people had an illness severe enough to require hospitalization. They represented just 53 out of every million fully vaccinated Israelis. At the same time, 214 hospitalized people were not vaccinated. Those people made up a much bigger fraction of the smaller population of unvaccinated people: 164 out of every million. So an unvaccinated Israeli is about three times as likely to end up in the hospital as their vaccinated compatriot.

But that’s not as impressive a difference as you might expect, is it? When we get that shot, we’re hoping for and expecting a lot heftier risk reduction than a factor of three. The really counterintuitive nugget at the heart of Simpson’s paradox lies deeper. I learned last summer, from mathematician Dana Mackenzie, a way to make the power of the “paradox” really clear. It has to do with racial differences in rates of covid-19 infection and deaths.
Free rapid at-home coronavirus tests could make pandemic life easier
As of July 2020, Mackenzie noted, confirmed cases of covid‑19 in the United States broke down along racial lines like this: 34.6 percent were Hispanic, 35.3 percent were non-Hispanic White and 20.8 percent were Black.

The distribution of deaths from covid‑19 looked different, however: 17.7 percent were Hispanic, 49.5 percent were non-Hispanic White and 22.9 percent were Black.
These numbers are startling on their face if you know anything about health disparities in the United States, which in almost all cases involve differentially bad health outcomes for people of color. Why was the proportion of White deaths so high?
The answer is simple. White people with covid‑19 are more likely to die of covid‑19 because old people with covid‑19 are more likely to die of covid‑19, and White people tend to be old (relative to non-White people). Break down cases by age groups and things look completely different, Mackenzie noted. Among Americans between 18 and 29, in July 2020, White people made up 30 percent of covid‑19 cases but just 19 percent of the deaths. Among people 85 and up, 70 percent of covid‑19 cases and 68 percent of deaths were White people. In fact, within every single age band of adults recorded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a covid‑19 case in a White person was less likely to be fatal than it would be for the typical American that age. Yet when you combine the groups together, the disease appears to be falling harder on White people because it was so much likelier to be fatal for the elderly, a group made up of a larger share of White people.

Something very similar is happening in Israel. Vaccinated Israelis, like White Americans, are older as a group than unvaccinated Israelis. And that’s why they’re going to the hospital at a rate higher than you might naively hope. Among Israeli adults under 50, as of Aug. 15, 3.5 million were vaccinated and 1.1 million were not. That’s still a considerable number of vaccine holdouts. Among those 3.5 million vaccinated younger people, just 11 were hospitalized — about three per million. Meanwhile, of the unvaccinated in this age range, 43 were in the hospital, or 39 per million.
Note that hospitalizations of young people for both the vaccinated and unvaccinated are low, because younger people rarely suffer the severest illness from covid-19. Still, vaccination reduced the rate of hospitalization more than 10-fold in the population under 50.
Some schools are requiring everyone to mask up. That doesn’t have to be permanent.
Now look at the population 50 and older. There are 2.1 million vaccinated Israelis over 50, and 290 were in the hospital Aug. 15. That’s 136 per million, a rate that dwarfs anything younger people are experiencing. And unvaccinated older Israelis? There are very few people in that category: just 186,000. But of that group, 171 were hospitalized — a grievously higher rate of 919 per million. In the older population, vaccinated people were less than one-sixth as likely to be hospitalized as the unvaccinated.

Clearly, the vaccines are impressively effective. Still, overall, more vaccinated Israelis were in the hospital than unvaccinated ones. This is a natural consequence of the fact that if you prioritize the most vulnerable people for vaccination — which is what you should do — then vaccinated people will be disproportionately drawn from the vulnerable population. That means more of them than you might otherwise expect will end up sick. (Since Aug. 15, the picture has changed somewhat: Israel now has more unvaccinated hospitalized patients than vaccinated hospitalized patients, possibly related to the rollout of booster doses at the end of July.)
Compare the situation in Israel with that in Oklahoma, whose weekly epidemiology and surveillance report gives an admirably thorough breakdown of the state of the pandemic. In Oklahoma, nearly a quarter of people over 65 are not fully vaccinated, a far higher proportion than in Israel. That means there’s a huge reservoir of Oklahomans who enjoy neither the protection of youth nor mRNA technology. And that results in a lot of hospitalization in unvaccinated people. So in Oklahoma, fewer than 1 in 10 people hospitalized with covid-19 are vaccinated. That makes the vaccine look better at a glance than the statistics from Israel. But from the standpoint of public health, you’d still rather be in Tel Aviv than Tulsa.
In other news, vaccines help prevent people getting the virus, who knew?

Anyway you want to spin it though, for a population of 8.8m their numbers are a concern.

I think a lot of people have done everything that was asked of them and their intention has been not to be exposed to the virus, the vaccine is a failsafe mechanism to not get a bad outcome if exposed to it. sh*t like the delta variant and some other ones coming out of Africa have evolved in places "living with the virus" and who knows what else will mutate from being in the community indefinitely.

I don't think the rest of the country that has done the right thing and aren't living with this virus wants to live with it because Morrison is a clown and Dan dropped the ball.
 

Horace

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Lockdowns can possibly work if 100% of the population are 100% compliant and do the right things 100% of the time.….Otherwise it’s basically the sh*t show we’re in now. Governments and police turning a blind eye, going easy on certain people/community groups, a let’s tread on egg shells bureaucracy, a lack of transparency and slime bucket politicians constantly bitching and sniping amongst themselves to avoid blame and scrutiny just adds to people’s frustration, anger and unwillingness to be compliant. Doesn’t help either when your livelihood is being destroyed and children are going loopy whilst the above is the daily fare. So really lockdowns are now pretty much a band aid on a broken leg.
I disagree. While it seems more people are disobeying the rules, the majority are not and while that continues, lockdowns will remain the most important tool that any jurisdiction has to try to contain the spread of the virus. And that makes sense from a statistical point of view. The less people out and about all of the time as we once used to, means there is less of a chance for people to catch the virus.

Friday will be the first time since this latest lockdown began when I will travel more than 5 kilometres from home, in order to see a GP and get a new prescription for a DVT in one of my legs. And I have not needed to break the 5 k zone in any of that time for the very simple reason that I can easily exercise for 2 hours every day within 5ks and there are at least 8 supermarkets within the the 5 k radius from where we are.

I can "get all of the news I need on the weather report", which is available online along with plenty of other news. I can get into plenty of arguments online if I so desire. Now I haven't been back home to Cunners territory for a while, but its been pretty wet and muddy down there anyway and building fences in muddy paddocks is fun but not as much fun as when it dries up a bit. And I can talk to all of them on the telephone or text messaging.

Anyway that's enough of my boring but entirely fulfilling life (apart from no football). Mainly just posted it to share the link below and the beautiful "Kathy's Song" that follows.

 
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7577969923

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I didn't say it is doom for Australia. I think the data shows that you can't really "go back to normal" without exposing a lot of people to the virus and that is going to expose people to a lot more risk than if you try and limit the spread of the virus.

As I highlighted the other day, our rates of death for unvaccinated people are relatively low by world standards and it is probably comparable to some highly vaccinated countries. That doesn't mean we shouldn't care if people get vaccinated or not either.

I just don't think vulnerable people deserve to be thrown under the bus because our federal government is incompetent and Dan is always slow on shutting borders down every time NSW fu**s up. If we were as quick the shut out the entire state as WA is, we wouldn't be in the shithole we are.



In other news, vaccines help prevent people getting the virus, who knew?

Anyway you want to spin it though, for a population of 8.8m their numbers are a concern.

I think a lot of people have done everything that was asked of them and their intention has been not to be exposed to the virus, the vaccine is a failsafe mechanism to not get a bad outcome if exposed to it. sh*t like the delta variant and some other ones coming out of Africa have evolved in places "living with the virus" and who knows what else will mutate from being in the community indefinitely.

I don't think the rest of the country that has done the right thing and aren't living with this virus wants to live with it because Morrison is a clown and Dan dropped the ball.
You seem to be living under some delusion that living with Covid was anything but inevitable. There was just no way Australia could cut itself off from the rest of the world for long enough for that to be true. It was always going to happen and it is a blight on our leaders that we haven't been preparing for this eventuality all along. Too much hubris and arrogance for most of the state premiers.

No one is suggesting throwing the vulnerable under the bus but there is a growing sentiment that if they have done nothing to help themselves then there is not much we can do. You only have to look at the deaths reported in NSW today to see the outcome. 9 deaths all with significant risk factors from age and underlying health conditions and only one of them fully vaccinated, and one had one shot. It is almost certain that every one of them was eligible for the vaccine from the first cohort or the second at worst.

In Israel even though case numbers are surging hospitalisations are well down on the peak of the pandemic. Protecting people from serious illness and hospitalisation is our future. Not obsessing about case numbers.
 

7577969923

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View attachment 1229388

Once again I am shocked that I am not shocked.
This is tragic but as a man in his 60s with a number of underlying health conditions, he has contributed to his own death by not availing himself of a vaccination. Before anyone jumps down my throat there have been at least 9 vaccination clinics held in Wilcannia over the past three months where he could've and should've gotten at least the first dose:
  • Monday, 28 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Tuesday, 29 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Wednesday, 30 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Thursday, 01 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Friday, 02 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Monday, 19 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Tuesday, 20 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Wednesday, 21 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Thursday, 22 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
 

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B4Bear

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This is tragic but as a man in his 60s with a number of underlying health conditions, he has contributed to his own death by not availing himself of a vaccination. Before anyone jumps down my throat there have been at least 9 vaccination clinics held in Wilcannia over the past three months where he could've and should've gotten at least the first dose:
  • Monday, 28 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Tuesday, 29 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Wednesday, 30 June 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Thursday, 01 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Friday, 02 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Monday, 19 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Tuesday, 20 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Wednesday, 21 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
  • Thursday, 22 July 2021 | 10:30 AM - 02:00 PM
I think with indigenous health it is not quite that simple. There is a lot of mistrust and historical factors that come into play. This was discussed on here a few weeks ago.

You are being pretty presumptive calling him out when you know exactly zero about his personal situation. Maybe he tried to get vaccinated, only to be told it had been sent to the year 12 s in Sydney? Who knows.

But it has been obvious from the start that vaccinating the indigenous has never been high on the priority list either by the NSW or Federal governments; out of sight, out of mind.
 

7577969923

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I think with indigenous health it is not quite that simple. There is a lot of mistrust and historical factors that come into play. This was discussed on here a few weeks ago.

You are being pretty presumptive calling him out when you know exactly zero about his personal situation. Maybe he tried to get vaccinated, only to be told it had been sent to the year 12 s in Sydney? Who knows.

But it has been obvious from the start that vaccinating the indigenous has never been high on the priority list either by the NSW or Federal governments; out of sight, out of mind.
No, I don't know the exact circumstances but there were 9 vaccine clinics in Wilcannia before vaccines were ever redirected. Do you really think that given his profile that he ever would have been rejected for a vaccine?

The indigenous have had priority inclusion in the vaccine rollout:

"In the original vaccine rollout strategy, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people aged over 55 were placed in Phase 1b, as one of the highest priorities to get vaccinated. All other adult Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were in Phase 2a, at the same priority level as non-Indigenous Australians in their 50s."

The other point missed is that a factor in the different vaccination profiles in the indigenous and non-indigenous populations is age profile. Only 10% of indigenous people are over the age of 60:

"In the numbers, what's not shown, is that above 60 coverage rates are the same for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders and non-Indigenous,"
Dr Jason Agostino, a GP, epidemiologist, and medical advisor to the National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation (NACCHO).
 

Tas

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You seem to be living under some delusion that living with Covid was anything but inevitable. There was just no way Australia could cut itself off from the rest of the world for long enough for that to be true.
How is it delusional? You need proof of vaccination for certain things to get into some countries. We should just require people to be vaccinated to get in and once here to be quarantined until you pass a covid test. Once you get that out of the way, then you are free to live normally. Like how our life was before the government f’ed it up.

It was always going to happen and it is a blight on our leaders that we haven't been preparing for this eventuality all along. Too much hubris and arrogance for most of the state premiers.
They were dealing with the Alpha and Beta variant for most of the pandemic. But our quarantine was a shitshow from day one. I was okay with hotel quarantine as a stop gap measure, we should have put into effect a plan to develop a proper national quarantine system. We failed abysmally in terms of keeping infected incoming people away from the public.

No one is suggesting throwing the vulnerable under the bus but there is a growing sentiment that if they have done nothing to help themselves then there is not much we can do. You only have to look at the deaths reported in NSW today to see the outcome. 9 deaths all with significant risk factors from age and underlying health conditions and only one of them fully vaccinated, and one had one shot. It is almost certain that every one of them was eligible for the vaccine from the first cohort or the second at worst.
I know, and I understand that frustration. I went blue in the face trying to get my parents to take the vaccine, at the end of the day they were told they would not be able to see their grandchildren again face to face out of fear of infecting them that they caved in and got vaccinated.

We've only become vested in what other people do now because it is visibly obvious that it is impacting us negatively what other people do. I think we need to look at public health more like "everyone is in it together" type of thing. If we were accustomed to that before now we wouldn't be here where we are, not to the same extent.

In Israel even though case numbers are surging hospitalisations are well down on the peak of the pandemic. Protecting people from serious illness and hospitalisation is our future. Not obsessing about case numbers.
On the positive side, their numbers are going down, slowly, yesterday it dipped below 10k infections per day. Pro-rata it is about 29k with our population if we lived in the same environment. We will have to see if it has peaked or how long this goes, they have initiated some covid measures but no lockdowns. I think the dream of returning to normal, like Israel did is dead. I think we can take more precautions and limit the rate it is spreads. It is likely going to be a significantly worse outcome for people than the current status quo though.

To me it just feels the government is dishonest with people, they are using language which suggests they are thinking about your welfare but what they mean is they want people to take the vaccine so people can die in manageable numbers rather than unmanageable numbers. When you look at human life as a statistic, fundamentally that is all it means to people who only see people as numbers on a spreadsheet.

I think for people who do not want to end up on the sh*t pile of those statistics, what we do matters.
 

danj

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On the bright side, it could be argued that all the bitching and moaning that’s going on in this thread is a perfect example of society’s failsafe mechanism kicking into gear - as it should in a functioning democracy.


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You left out all the lols this thread has provided, never a dull page 👍
 

B4Bear

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The documents, obtained by Labor, show Pfizer first contacted the Department of Health in July 2020, requesting a formal virtual meeting with Health Minister Greg Hunt at the “earliest opportunity”.

But, no one from the health minister’s office met with the company until August, and a deal – for only 10 million doses – was not signed until November.

Pfizer Australia: Emails with Greg Hunt’s office revealed | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

Oh for our system to have an impeachment process.
 

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One thing that annoys me is the behaviour of people when buying food. Now I know Covid is a respiratory virus but the way that people pick up multiple pieces of say fruit, fondle each one and then put them back!!

I grab a plastic bag, put it over my right hand and use it as a barrier. Been doing this for years as my dental training emphasises barriers.

I do wonder if this unhygienic mode of shopping is a mode of transmission of this pestilence.
 

rickety

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The documents, obtained by Labor, show Pfizer first contacted the Department of Health in July 2020, requesting a formal virtual meeting with Health Minister Greg Hunt at the “earliest opportunity”.

But, no one from the health minister’s office met with the company until August, and a deal – for only 10 million doses – was not signed until November.

Pfizer Australia: Emails with Greg Hunt’s office revealed | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

Oh for our system to have an impeachment process.
Oh Greggy Greggy Greggy
 

Horace

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One thing that annoys me is the behaviour of people when buying food. Now I know Covid is a respiratory virus but the way that people pick up multiple pieces of say fruit, fondle each one and then put them back!!

I grab a plastic bag, put it over my right hand and use it as a barrier. Been doing this for years as my dental training emphasises barriers.

I do wonder if this unhygienic mode of shopping is a mode of transmission of this pestilence.
Absolutely. I have actually taken people to task for this on many occasions. So many people have no regard for safe hygiene practices. I will probably get my head punched in one day but I don't care. If it needs to be said then it has to be said.
 

7577969923

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How is it delusional? You need proof of vaccination for certain things to get into some countries. We should just require people to be vaccinated to get in and once here to be quarantined until you pass a covid test. Once you get that out of the way, then you are free to live normally. Like how our life was before the government f’ed it up.



They were dealing with the Alpha and Beta variant for most of the pandemic. But our quarantine was a shitshow from day one. I was okay with hotel quarantine as a stop gap measure, we should have put into effect a plan to develop a proper national quarantine system. We failed abysmally in terms of keeping infected incoming people away from the public.



I know, and I understand that frustration. I went blue in the face trying to get my parents to take the vaccine, at the end of the day they were told they would not be able to see their grandchildren again face to face out of fear of infecting them that they caved in and got vaccinated.

We've only become vested in what other people do now because it is visibly obvious that it is impacting us negatively what other people do. I think we need to look at public health more like "everyone is in it together" type of thing. If we were accustomed to that before now we wouldn't be here where we are, not to the same extent.



On the positive side, their numbers are going down, slowly, yesterday it dipped below 10k infections per day. Pro-rata it is about 29k with our population if we lived in the same environment. We will have to see if it has peaked or how long this goes, they have initiated some covid measures but no lockdowns. I think the dream of returning to normal, like Israel did is dead. I think we can take more precautions and limit the rate it is spreads. It is likely going to be a significantly worse outcome for people than the current status quo though.

To me it just feels the government is dishonest with people, they are using language which suggests they are thinking about your welfare but what they mean is they want people to take the vaccine so people can die in manageable numbers rather than unmanageable numbers. When you look at human life as a statistic, fundamentally that is all it means to people who only see people as numbers on a spreadsheet.

I think for people who do not want to end up on the sh*t pile of those statistics, what we do matters.
The idea that in a world full of covid we could stay covid free is just was never sustainable. Quarantine was not the answer for re-engaging with the world as there was never the ability to build capacity. Forcing people into 14 days quarantine was not a sustainable solution.

Proof of being vaccinated plus a negative PCR test within 72 hours of getting on a flight, perhaps supported by a rapid response test when you land is where we are heading to.

I don't care if they were dealing with Alpha, Beta, or the 300th variant. There has never been any contingency and scenario planning beyond the situation they were facing today. That is abundantly clear from the actions of Andrews' government and his daily press briefings. Mutations and variants were a very known possibility from day 1. The chance that there would be a time when the virus would spread beyond our ability to bring it back to zero with harsh lockdowns was always a very real possibility. Despite that, it is completely obvious that when Andrews arrived at the realisation we wouldn't get back to zero last week it was abundantly clear that there had been no work or thinking done about what was next.

A national quarantine system was never the long-term panacea that some posters here believed.

I think it is precisely because people understand that we are all in this together that patience with those who won't step forward and get a very simple ******* vaccine is wearing incredibly thin. It is unvaccinated who reject the premise of us being in this together. That all of us in this together premise is very flimsy to start with. the pain of covid has in no way been shared equally across society.

What the Government has done is create a false impression that we can save every life. That has never been true. You might find it crass but a lot of healthcare planning is based on limiting severe illness and deaths to manageable numbers. Every year people die of deaths that theoretically could have been prevented with drastic action like we have taken against covid but the numbers don't make it viable to do so.

We have to pick a day where we stop killing society to protect people from themselves. We could get to 70% first dose within a week if everybody just shut the fu** up and got the AZ.

I'm sick of different governments potshotting each other and posters here that view everything through a partisan lens. There are several guys on here that don't accept that older Australians now have no one to blame but themselves if they are not vaxxed as there has been availability and supply for them since March 1st. They are more invested in a narrative of the government has done nothing right.

I think you denigrate self-interest way too much. It is the only thing that has ever worked and PAul Keating knew that to be true.
 

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