News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV | NMFC player tests positive, in 14 day quarantine - Hun report does not name player

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Tas

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Example A.

A ton of waffle, completely ignoring the issues raised in the post replied to.
I wasn't ignoring it, I just expanded on it. It is all a matter of risk management. Everything has risk associated with it's use, you can even kill yourself drinking too much water. There is an acceptable level of risk when it comes to medicines, to all vaccines. You don't really need to acknowledge that there are risks, they are printed on the side of the box, in the information online. When you talk about tens of millions of people or even billions, there is always going to be some that have an adverse effect.

The reason I was hesitant before the delta variant was because there were more adverse effects with the covid vaccines than existed with all other vaccines prior to the covid vaccines combined, and the testing for the vaccine was rushed. Those that mocked my hesitancy saying it went through an independent trial, blah, blah, a whistleblower came out recently to say the trial was a complete sham for the Pfizer vaccine and the AZ wasn't even sufficient enough to pick up a serious clotting side-effect. It is what happens when you rush vaccines.

After the delta variant though, the risks of covid outweighed the other risks to myself, there were enough people vaccinated by then that we got some worthwhile vaccination data. I am in a higher risk group though, if I was young with no comorbidities and my vitamin d levels were fine, I wouldn't have got the vaccine and I think the persecution of unvaccinated is moronic given vaccinated people can spread covid.

The problem is our one shoe fits all policy. Taking the risk with the vaccine when you are young and have no comorbidities and aren't vitamin d deficient means you are taking on those risks when the possible threat from catching covid for people in that group is very low. You shouldn't really need to take on that risk unless it is going to protect your health or the community needs it for herd immunity.

I think the manner in which our government handled the pandemic and communicated left a lot to be desired, it fostered a lot of distrust in both the government and health services. That is unfortunate.

The group we really needed to look after was that portion of the community that is vulnerable, we didn't even really make a good fist of doing that.
 

ferball

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Of course I haven't compared mRna vaccines as they are a new scientific development. Nobody has. It's an ongoing process.
I spent a few hours looking for side effect results with traditional after you mentioned this last time. There is very little evidence of the sort of thing we are seeing with mRNA vaccines. Most adverse events are associated with immediate allergic reactions and they are very few in number.


None of these things are being swept under the carpet.
That is exactly what happened with the whistleblower from the company Ventavia. The only reason they were taken seriously by any media (ie the BJM) was that they meticulously documented everything that bothered them.
 

Grogg

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I spent a few hours looking for side effect results with traditional after you mentioned this last time. There is very little evidence of the sort of thing we are seeing with mRNA vaccines. Most adverse events are associated with immediate allergic reactions and they are very few in number.
All drugs and vaccines have different possible long and short term side effects. Some devastating. You're point is largely irrelevant. It's like comparing possible side effects from Panadol to infliximab. They're two completely different drugs with different benefits and different effects on the body.


That is exactly what happened with the whistleblower from the company Ventavia. The only reason they were taken seriously by any media (ie the BJM) was that they meticulously documented everything that bothered them.
It's one study from numerous studies carried out by one whistle-blower. That just isn't evidence of a widespread cover up to me.
 

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ferball

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All drugs and vaccines have different possible long and short term side effects. Some devastating. You're point is largely irrelevant. It's like comparing possible side effects from Panadol to infliximab. They're two completely different drugs with different benefits and different effects on the body.
Then why did you bring it up in the first place? You're the one who first mentioned the side effects of other vaccines. I agree its irrelevent, we're talking about this situation, with one vaccine.

It's one study from numerous studies carried out by one whistle-blower. That just isn't evidence of a widespread cover up to me.
Have you seen article? It suggests widespread problems with the quality of the trials conducted by Ventavia. Dunno if its just a cover up or incompetent trialing and auditing by the regulator. Effectively there is no difference.

Its here.


This is the last line of the article:

Since Jackson reported problems with Ventavia to the FDA in September 2020, Pfizer has hired Ventavia as a research subcontractor on four other vaccine clinical trials (covid-19 vaccine in children and young adults, pregnant women, and a booster dose, as well an RSV vaccine trial; NCT04816643, NCT04754594, NCT04955626, NCT05035212).
Meanwhile the FDA is trying to stonewall the release of this trial data under FOI for up to half a century.

And these vaccines are effectively mandated for use if you want to take part in society in certain parts of Australia and the rest of the world.

This is a farce.
 

jatz14

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Then why did you bring it up in the first place? You're the one who first mentioned the side effects of other vaccines. I agree its irrelevent, we're talking about this situation, with one vaccine.



Have you seen article? It suggests widespread problems with the quality of the trials conducted by Ventavia. Dunno if its just a cover up or incompetent trialing and auditing by the regulator. Effectively there is no difference.

Its here.


This is the last line of the article:



Meanwhile the FDA is trying to stonewall the release of this trial data under FOI for up to half a century.

And these vaccines are effectively mandated for use if you want to take part in society in certain parts of Australia and the rest of the world.

This is a farce.
The Covid vaccines are the most studied and scrutinized medications in history.

And this has been done in the open like no drug development ever.

It is the exact opposite of what you are gabbering on about.

People being kept in the dark, stuff being swept under the rug, side effects being hidden, conspiracy. No.

It's like a people that believe the food they eat just forms itself inside plastic wrapping, have suddenly seen sausages being made, and are now freaking out.

They could have always checked out the sausage making process, but just never did.

Now they are watching a primo A grade sausage being made, and have become instant sausage making experts, telling everybody what's wrong with the process.

I mean, these idiots thought sausages were plucked ready wrapped from a sausage bush a year ago.

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ferball

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The Covid vaccines are the most studied and scrutinized medications in history.

And this has been done in the open like no drug development ever.

It is the exact opposite of what you are gabbering on about.

People being kept in the dark, stuff being swept under the rug, side effects being hidden, conspiracy. No.

It's like a people that believe the food they eat just forms itself inside plastic wrapping, have suddenly seen sausages being made, and are now freaking out.

They could have always checked out the sausage making process, but just never did.

Now they are watching a primo A grade sausage being made, and have become instant sausage making experts, telling everybody what's wrong with the process.

I mean, these idiots thought sausages were plucked ready wrapped from a sausage bush a year ago.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
You're an idiot. Why would I listen to you?
 

shintemaster

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I wasn't ignoring it, I just expanded on it. It is all a matter of risk management. Everything has risk associated with it's use, you can even kill yourself drinking too much water. There is an acceptable level of risk when it comes to medicines, to all vaccines. You don't really need to acknowledge that there are risks, they are printed on the side of the box, in the information online. When you talk about tens of millions of people or even billions, there is always going to be some that have an adverse effect.

The reason I was hesitant before the delta variant was because there were more adverse effects with the covid vaccines than existed with all other vaccines prior to the covid vaccines combined, and the testing for the vaccine was rushed. Those that mocked my hesitancy saying it went through an independent trial, blah, blah, a whistleblower came out recently to say the trial was a complete sham for the Pfizer vaccine and the AZ wasn't even sufficient enough to pick up a serious clotting side-effect. It is what happens when you rush vaccines.

After the delta variant though, the risks of covid outweighed the other risks to myself, there were enough people vaccinated by then that we got some worthwhile vaccination data. I am in a higher risk group though, if I was young with no comorbidities and my vitamin d levels were fine, I wouldn't have got the vaccine and I think the persecution of unvaccinated is moronic given vaccinated people can spread covid.

The problem is our one shoe fits all policy. Taking the risk with the vaccine when you are young and have no comorbidities and aren't vitamin d deficient means you are taking on those risks when the possible threat from catching covid for people in that group is very low. You shouldn't really need to take on that risk unless it is going to protect your health or the community needs it for herd immunity.

I think the manner in which our government handled the pandemic and communicated left a lot to be desired, it fostered a lot of distrust in both the government and health services. That is unfortunate.

The group we really needed to look after was that portion of the community that is vulnerable, we didn't even really make a good fist of doing that.
Tas, that's a lot of words when irrespective of delta, alpha or any other variant all of the current vaccines present a demonstrated and much lower risk of death or long term health impacts than contracting COVID without protection. Even if you're in the lowest risk category for the disease possible you are still more likely to be impacted by the disease than a vaccine.
 

Tas

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Tas, that's a lot of words when irrespective of delta, alpha or any other variant all of the current vaccines present a demonstrated and much lower risk of death or long term health impacts than contracting COVID without protection. Even if you're in the lowest risk category for the disease possible you are still more likely to be impacted by the disease than a vaccine.
lol a lot of words. What is it you are struggling with, the concept of probability, or something else?

If you were under 40, you are more likely to get eaten by a shark than to die of covid, does that mean you should never go to the beach any longer? You are ZERO percent likely to die as a young person if you do not have a comorbidity. So whatever the risk of the vaccine, no matter how improbable of you being a victim of it, if you are young and healthy the vaccine is more of a threat to you than covid. Is this paragraph short enough for you to comprehend?

This is the breakdown of the data as of September... https://www.statista.com/statistics...f-coronavirus-deaths-by-age-group-and-gender/

Before Delta variant, we were going for complete containment, so outside of breakouts, the vast majority of people should have avoided covid, like we have had less than 200k cases Australia wide. Now with the Delta variant and NSW's fu**up, everyone is going to get covid, vaccinated or not. It is just a matter of time until when now.
 

Themanbun

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This still going on in here?

We're nearly back to normal and are on track for 90+ per cent vaccinated. I went to a mate's birthday at a brewery, which was my first major social outing in 18 months. Back at footy. Able to go for drives and bushwalks and enjoy life again. And my new job is happy for me to work pretty much as remotely as I want. We managed to avoid much of the tragedy of other parts of the world and are seriously lucky. Our friend's cousin, a 16 year old girl, died of COVID recently.

We really have been pretty blessed here, and the news of that really put it in perspective.

Now that life is back, it's awesome.
 
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TennisPlayerAndy

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This still going on in here?

We're nearly back to normal and are on track for 90+ per cent vaccinated. I went to a mate's birthday at a brewery, which was my first major social outing in 18 months. Back at footy. Able to go for drives and bushwalks and enjoy life again. And my new job is happy for me to work pretty much as remotely as I want. We managed to avoid much of the tragedy of other parts of the world and are seriously lucky. Our friend's cousin, a 16 year old girl, died of COVID recently.

We really have been pretty blessed here, and the news of that really put it in perspective.

Now that life is back, it's awesome.
How can you do all of that in such a draconian dictatorship?
 

Ry009

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This still going on in here?

We're nearly back to normal and are on track for 90+ per cent vaccinated. I went to a mate's birthday at a brewery, which was my first major social outing in 18 months. Back at footy. Able to go for drives and bushwalks and enjoy life again. And my new job is happy for me to work pretty much as remotely as I want. We managed to avoid much of the tragedy of other parts of the world and are seriously lucky. Our friend's cousin, a 16 year old girl, died of COVID recently.

We really have been pretty blessed here, and the news of that really put it in perspective.

Now that life is back, it's awesome.

Sorry to hear about the family friend mate. :(
 
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Themanbun

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Said to hear about the family friend mate. :(
Yeah mate. It's honestly devastating for them. Of course there are all the absolute idiots who will scream "pre-existing conditions", but the reality is that these parents had to bury their healthy kid because of this insidious virus.

Having family in Europe we've been a bit closer to all this than most Aussies, which as I said gives us some perspective. Get vaccinated and stay safe folks.
 

shintemaster

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lol a lot of words. What is it you are struggling with, the concept of probability, or something else?

If you were under 40, you are more likely to get eaten by a shark than to die of covid, does that mean you should never go to the beach any longer? You are ZERO percent likely to die as a young person if you do not have a comorbidity. So whatever the risk of the vaccine, no matter how improbable of you being a victim of it, if you are young and healthy the vaccine is more of a threat to you than covid. Is this paragraph short enough for you to comprehend?

This is the breakdown of the data as of September... https://www.statista.com/statistics...f-coronavirus-deaths-by-age-group-and-gender/

Before Delta variant, we were going for complete containment, so outside of breakouts, the vast majority of people should have avoided covid, like we have had less than 200k cases Australia wide. Now with the Delta variant and NSW's fu**up, everyone is going to get covid, vaccinated or not. It is just a matter of time until when now.
That's a pretty creative use of the stats Tas. You were more likely to be eaten by a shark only whilst there were the level of cases in Australia that were maintained at the time - and the still significantly lower cases here than most of the world. That doesn't mean that those odds are the same as we give up on COVID elimination and allow cases to rise. The odds aren't the same when the disease is rampant, otherwise there would have been 3/4 of a million shark related deaths in the US last year which funnily enough wasn't the case.

It was always - unfortunately - optimistic that we could maintain our relatively unique status given a great part of the rest of the world wasn't interested in fighting this. And the odds say that we are significantly better off being vaccinated - irrespective of variant - once it is allowed to spread.
 

Ligma

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Jacqui Lambie “cutting through” in a manner more prominent people have failed miserably.


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“If you want to work in aged care, you need to have a flu vaccine and that rule has been in place before Covid-19 was even a twinkle in a Chinese bats eye for goodness sake, that’s the way it is”

PURRRRRRR PERIOD HAHAHAHA
 

Swallow_Wood

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Jacqui Lambie “cutting through” in a manner more prominent people have failed miserably.


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I found at times it was like she was lecturing a child on what it means to be a responsible human and the expectations placed upon individuals living in a group. She was absolutely on the money.
 

Caracas

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I found at times it was like she was lecturing a child on what it means to be a responsible human and the expectations placed upon individuals living in a group. She was absolutely on the money.
She can do that because she doesn’t come across as an out of touch member of the elite.


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Tas

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That's a pretty creative use of the stats Tas. You were more likely to be eaten by a shark only whilst there were the level of cases in Australia that were maintained at the time - and the still significantly lower cases here than most of the world.

That doesn't mean that those odds are the same as we give up on COVID elimination and allow cases to rise. The odds aren't the same when the disease is rampant, otherwise there would have been 3/4 of a million shark related deaths in the US last year which funnily enough wasn't the case.

It was always - unfortunately - optimistic that we could maintain our relatively unique status given a great part of the rest of the world wasn't interested in fighting this. And the odds say that we are significantly better off being vaccinated - irrespective of variant - once it is allowed to spread.
I don't think you are understanding what I am referring to, I was just speaking about the young, healthy with no vitamin d deficiency people. These people aren't going to die to covid so it doesn't matter how much of the virus is in the community for that group. Studies have showed the viral load is the same if you catch covid from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person. If we are all going to get it anyway, only two things matter. A) Are you in a risk group and B) can our health system cope with the patients.

Even when you look at the data from other countries, the vast majority of people who have had a bad response to covid or died are older people with weaker immune systems and particularly those with other significant health issues. This group is still vulnerable to covid even if vaccinated, they are just significantly more unlikely to have a bad outcome if they are vaccinated.

It is this vulnerable group that we should have put the majority of our resources into identifying who they are and ensuring we have done everything we can to protect them.

The active cases in Victoria peaked on 24th October ar 24,993, week later it was 22,013, then 16,413, then 17,302, then 9,632 and it is currently at 9,533. All they show in the media is cases increase by over a thousand, but the outflow has been higher, most people have a very mild response to it. It is those who are old and or in poor health that have a bad outcome, particularly if they are unvaccinated. Sadly, we still see a group that should have been vaccinated but chose not to. This is largely the group we see represented by serious hospitalisation data.

Hospitalisations also peaked on October 18 with 851, 163 in ICU and 106 on ventilators on Oct 16, despite opening up for a few weeks now hospitalisations are down to 316, with 44 in ICU and 23 on ventilators thanks largely to the number of people vaccinated. We have 90% double vaccinated over age of 12, the main group who are at risk are those who should have been vaccinated.

Don't get me wrong, i am all for the vaccines. But we are all going to get exposed to covid, this is what the experts have said, if you are like me and you are in a higher risk group, make sure you are vaccinated, get your GP to test your vitamin D and zinc levels to make sure you are not deficient, get a booster for the vaccine after 6 months or whenever your doctor advises you. Your life is largely your own responsibility to look after. Government isn't going to step in and stop people shoving Big Macs in their face to stop them having a sh*t outcome with various diseases.

My point is that 10% or so that are holding out, they aren't going to overload the health care system and they aren't going to present any more danger to the rest of the community than vaccinated people. Sure, they will spread covid faster, but everyone who is vulnerable should be vaccinated by now, should be talking to their GP about how to improve their health, some people are going to pass away sadly, but are talking about the same demographic that are killed by flus and other diseases healthy people are not. If we are going to try and save the most vulnerable from covid, the same response should be with the flu. We lost around 800 people to the flu in 2019 before covid and our worst flu season was 2017 with 1,255.

Before Delta variant things were different, there was hopes of herd immunity, there was hopes the vaccine would give you a long-term or permanent immunity. Our ability to save every preventable death is now in the same basket as the flu, covid is more dangerous but has become just as hard to protect against.

Every decision we make should be what science tells us is the best thing to do, we haven't been doing that to date, we have picked and chosen what aspects we apply science to and have opted with batshit crazy for the rest.
 
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Dan

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I feel you are in a position where you would still have a lot to learn from mere idiots. A step up the rung if you will.
I don't feel compelled to comment/post about covid on other team boards.

To do so would reek of 'Look at me' 'Validate my existence' 'MY OPINION MATTERS!!!!'

Just a thought.
 

jatz14

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I don't feel compelled to comment/post about covid on other team boards.

To do so would reek of 'Look at me' 'Validate my existence' 'MY OPINION MATTERS!!!!'

Just a thought.
Apologies, to be honest, I clicked on a covid thread, and didn't realise it was a club thread. I have just been clicking on notifications ever since. Will stay out.
 

Hearts to hearts

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I don't feel compelled to comment/post about covid on other team boards.

To do so would reek of 'Look at me' 'Validate my existence' 'MY OPINION MATTERS!!!!'

Just a thought.
Weird take. This isn’t a club thing, and maybe other boards don’t have a thread to share news and opinions about the pandemic. Like the * sympathy thread, I’d have thought all welcome to discuss a universal topic of concern.
 

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