Coronavirus/COVID-19

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Anja_Nees

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 14, 2001
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Salesforce is a crappy system IF you start from scratch. The fact they were offered assistance to implement it from the police who know how to use it and ignored them is baffling.

Why not take assistance when offered it?
Seems to be a hallmark of his government - they do things their own way. Andrews continually broke ranks in subtle ways with the rest of the national cabinet, and went this way on quarantine and contact tracing.

I think some people see it as strong leadership but you’d want to make sure that if you’re going to go it alone on such critical issues you are capable of doing it better. Unfortunately they very clearly couldn’t do it better on hotels or contact tracing.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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Leading economists still support lock-down/restrictions to achieve the best economic recovery:

They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
 

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LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
Some of us business owning Australians require the virus to be practically eliminated for our businesses to function.
The fact that the choice at the moment is attempted elimination (which isn’t going well but maybe getting better now) OR open it up faster and let it rip (or to put it another way let it RIP).

Not all businesses are the same. The only thing that will keep me going is knowing that 90% of my local competitors will probably go bust.
 
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Mantis Toboggan

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2018
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
That’s like not trusting a trained surgeon to reset your femur because he’s never broken a bone in his own body.

As it happens, I’ve long believed that all university students should have their legs broken in the first semester. This would likely stop people drifting into higher education without any specific aim. I’d predict an upsurge in entrepreneurialism and a culture where hard work is valued more than pencil pushing.

Incidentally, it would also be a real boon for my own business, Blunt Instrument Industries and my side venture - Infinity Bone Fixing Services Ltd.
 
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ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
Good point. We should hire MattDougie as economic advisor; no one has a better grip on the plight of the working class man.
 

dogwatch

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Jun 17, 2009
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
I note that the academy includes among its fellows such luminaries as John Hewson (ex leader of the Liberal Party), Ken Henry (former head of Treasury, appointed by Peter Costello and currently Chairman of the ASX), Martin Parkinson (former head of Treasury and Liberal-appointed head of Dept of Prime Minister and Cabinet). That doesn't particularly sound like the haunt of out-of-touch lefties.

Anyway, having noted your swingeing attack on the authors' credentials, what did you make of what they actually said? I'm assuming you did read it.

Is the evidence of economic disaster from other countries that have felt the need to open up for business not relevant to Australia? If Andrew Bolt or John Stone made the same statement would you be equally dismissive?
 

wayniac

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Sep 28, 2009
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LOL, John Hewson who couldn't explain his own GST policy. But, but he's a "Doctor". Ken Henry, he of the Henry tax review that nobody implemented, Peter Costello, the gutless PM wannabee who didn't stare down John Howard. All a bit like Carlton no. 1 draft picks. At least Parkinson shares a name with a disease.
 

wayniac

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argumentum ad verecundiam



Sweden, which avoided a lockdown during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, saw its economy shrink 8.6% in the April-to-June period from the previous three months.

The flash estimate from the Swedish statistics office indicated that the country had fared better than other EU nations which took stricter measures.
 

Libba39

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2008
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
Economists, scientists, epidemiologists...

Lets just not believe anyone with a degree because they've obviously got idea.

🤔
 
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LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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argumentum ad verecundiam



Sweden, which avoided a lockdown during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, saw its economy shrink 8.6% in the April-to-June period from the previous three months.

The flash estimate from the Swedish statistics office indicated that the country had fared better than other EU nations which took stricter measures.
Sweden’s unemployment rate is higher than the other Nordic countries. The businesses may not have been shut by lockdown but many are going under due to little consumer spending (people not going out as much) and little government support. Someone I have known for 35 years, lives there. He describes it as a crash in slow motion. People aren’t spending due to virus fears and so businesses are slowing going under.
 

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LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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It appears that someone has decided to challenge the curfew and social distancing guidelines in court. IF the challenge is upheld, there is no lockdown, no required social distancing....

Virus must be loving this move!
 

Libba39

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2008
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It appears that someone has decided to challenge the curfew and social distancing guidelines in court. IF the challenge is upheld, there is no lockdown, no required social distancing....

Virus must be loving this move!
Oh yeah, just a "local business owner from Rosebud"...
Just happens to have previously nominated for Liberal Party pre-selection...🤔
 

Chicago1

I ain't got this flu thing!
Apr 19, 2001
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I am looking for a single person bubble buddy.

The applicant must be rich, enjoy eating from various restaurants via Uber Eats and that ilk, hate Richmond with a passion, be a fan of Home and Away, not be a bogan, be OK with me only wearing sleepwear during the day(that sounds like a contradiction after the last condition mentioned, I know), a non-smoker,preferably have a YouTube channel I can leave comments on, promise to never discuss cricket, love Lindor chocolate truffles, be willing to do a bit of light cleaning, like cats, and be able to cut hair during a pandemic. For friendship only! Will be dropped like Jack Trengove as soon as pandemic ends(if ever).
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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argumentum ad verecundiam



Sweden, which avoided a lockdown during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, saw its economy shrink 8.6% in the April-to-June period from the previous three months.

The flash estimate from the Swedish statistics office indicated that the country had fared better than other EU nations which took stricter measures.
It's fairly predictable that less restrictions would cause a less severe initial drop in economic activity. The case for a harsh lock down in regards to the economy is that theoretically it will lead to a faster recovery. Consumer confidence will increase in countries with very low levels of virus compared to those with higher levels of virus. I'll be interested to see how Sweden's economy will be doing in six months, compared to countries which achieve elimination or something close to it.
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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It appears that someone has decided to challenge the curfew and social distancing guidelines in court. IF the challenge is upheld, there is no lockdown, no required social distancing....

Virus must be loving this move!
If she won it would also set a precedent that would allow every business in Victoria to sue the state government for loss of income.
 

Mantis Toboggan

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Mar 24, 2018
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If she won it would also set a precedent that would allow every business in Victoria to sue the state government for loss of income.
I don’t really understand stuff like this. I thought the whole point of a state of emergency is that the rule book goes out the window.

If she wins and is awarded damages and the state has to re-open tomorrow, leading to hundreds of deaths...can every person affected sue her?

If feels like one of those legal cases that is more a statement than anything else.
 

The Buck

Senior List
Sep 23, 2013
251
695
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They are ‘leading economists’. In other words they are academics with more learning than wisdom, who have never earned a dollar as as business man or woman in their lives. Collected together in a socialist think tank article. Never had a money issue in their lives, got all this academic research, then spin it to suit their political narrative. They have no idea of the lives of working Australians, let alone working Australians who run a business.
1600178448213.png
 

Arkangel

Team Captain
Jun 8, 2007
451
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Internet City
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argumentum ad verecundiam



Sweden, which avoided a lockdown during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, saw its economy shrink 8.6% in the April-to-June period from the previous three months.

The flash estimate from the Swedish statistics office indicated that the country had fared better than other EU nations which took stricter measures.
Quarter-to-quarter, Sweden performed worse than its nordic neighbours in continental Europe (Norway, Denmark, Finland). So, 10–30 times as many deaths, and worse economic performance; to me this does not sound like a good combination. Still, like those in the article you linked, these are just Q2 figures, so perhaps their strategy will prove to be more effective as time passes.
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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I don’t really understand stuff like this. I thought the whole point of a state of emergency is that the rule book goes out the window.

If she wins and is awarded damages and the state has to re-open tomorrow, leading to hundreds of deaths...can every person affected sue her?

If feels like one of those legal cases that is more a statement than anything else.
I'm not an expert on administrative law but I'll give you my take:

I don't think the purpose of this case is to make a statement. It's a way to challenge the legitimacy of the curfew through the judiciary.

The state of emergency certainly doesn't mean the rule book goes out the window. What it does is grants the government certain emergency powers. The power in question here is provided in section 200 (1)(a), the power to,"restrict the movement of any person or group of persons within the emergency area." Prima facie the curfew seems to be a perfectly reasonable use of this power. There is a provision in this section which states that use of these powers must be authorised by the CHO.

Where it gets tricky is that there are a bunch of provisions in this Act about evidence-based decision making, not making arbitrary decisions and using the least restrictive measures practicable. The curfew in particular seems like it can be challenged along those lines. My understanding is that Sutton admitted publicly that he did not recommend the curfew. Unless the government can show that it had some form of evidence to suggest that the curfew was necessary as a public health measure, the courts might determine that it's not legitimate. If the aim of the curfew was only to assist law enforcement then the judges may have to decide whether that's a reasonable measure for protecting the public health.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the plaintiff in this case won't be awarded any damages. I'm struggling to see how a curfew could be the main cause of loss of revenue for a cafe. I imagine they know this and don't really want to sue the government here; they just want to get the curfew thrown out.
 

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