Coronavirus/COVID-19

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BEaston

Hungry
Oct 9, 2013
6,133
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So Sweden seems to be the gold mark eh? Let's see how they fared compared to their more comparative neighbours

1600238765734.png


Sorry if I just can't get on board with the "let her rip" strategy some are advocating for.


I'm not sure comparing their economic performance to the countries that were absolutely hardest hit in EU is the best measure either. Still a big discrepancy in the numbers there.

1600238941818.png
 

Libba39

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2008
4,288
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Murrumbeena
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Andrews even admits that he was in charge. How could he not be?
I agree that the Victorian Libs are terrible, but who knows how they would’ve went. All we do know is our state is and was infinitely worse than every other state combined.
Great article today by Chris Ulman in the Age. He is from the ABC and the Age so a‘left of centre’ voice, writing about all the same concerns we have been trying to highlight. That often gets drowned out by those barracking for their side of politics, saying Andrews can do no wrong. Offering all they same solutions we put forth weeks and months ago. Very much worth a look and read.
Thanks FW, I will have a read.

By no means am I saying Andrews can do no wrong. Fair to say I lean towards that side of politics, however I did not and will not vote for him after the govt erected a terrible elevated rail line through my suburb without any consultation.
 

wayniac

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Sep 28, 2009
870
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Geelong
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So Sweden seems to be the gold mark eh? Let's see how they fared compared to their more comparative neighbours

View attachment 962821

Sorry if I just can't get on board with the "let her rip" strategy some are advocating for.


I'm not sure comparing their economic performance to the countries that were absolutely hardest hit in EU is the best measure either. Still a big discrepancy in the numbers there.

View attachment 962824
Did you watch the video I posted? I guess not because you are looking at a very short term graph. Confirmed cases are meaningless unless you include excess deaths, number of tests, age groups. Australian excess deaths were higher last year than this year. Denmark should definitely ban smokes and alcohol, not let them rip 3 years off their life expectancy.
 

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wayniac

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For him pretty bad ( from Japara ,Sunbury facility ) he was ok , symptoms akin to a bad flu.
Not sure the exact numbers , but a fair proportion of the staff contracted the virus and had to isolate.
For 2 of his colleagues ( both older ) things were far more perilous. Not sure what their situation is now.
Of course the residents fared far worse and died regularly.
Now as he says the staff “ get used “ to old people dying , but this was a lot different.
More numbers , multiples per day. Working longer hours because of staff attrition.
Dealing with it mentally was and still is the biggest challenge.

By the way , they don’t get paid a fortune to do this job.
And yes it annoys me when people play this down as nothing more than the flu.
Common sense should tell you governments of all colours around the world don’t shut down economies for the flu.

Plenty of articles available about this facility if your interested.
Ischaemic heart disease
Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.
  • 5,175 deaths occurred from ischaemic heart disease between 1 January 2020 and 26 May 2020.
  • The average number of deaths recorded for the same period between 2015 and 2019 was 5,649.
So we can see that deaths were higher from the no. 1 killer last year and prior years. Now this a lifestyle disease. Would you expect this to boom next year? Lack of exercise, obesity, smoking are major causers. Just wondering what a fair trade off is? A colleague had this condition, ongoing. He went full-on lifestyle change and reversed the symptoms. Unfortunately his weight is piling on during lockdown, his stress levels are elevated AND he is still working at the office.


COVID-19: There have been approximately 929,026 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 194,545 people have died of COVID-19 between January 2020 and September 15, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

What's an acceptable number for flu to start lockdowns? Those numbers are pretty large, despite a flu vaccine.

I lost a nephew last year to myocardial infarction, that's worse than a "bad flu".
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
6,293
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Did you watch the video I posted? I guess not because you are looking at a very short term graph. Confirmed cases are meaningless unless you include excess deaths, number of tests, age groups. Australian excess deaths were higher last year than this year. Denmark should definitely ban smokes and alcohol, not let them rip 3 years off their life expectancy.
I watched the video and I made some comments but you ignored them.

I will make the some more comments about the video:

He is assuming that everyone has caught this virus, which is what happens in the case of most coronavirus. This is by far the biggest failing in his data.... which again, he never addresses.
Deaths plotted on graphs without uniform data are rather meaningless.
Spanish flu graph was only of Spain but not of other countries, who had multiple waves


His theory is about to be tested in Europe.... we shall see if he is correct.
 

King Harold

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Apr 23, 2013
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Ischaemic heart disease
Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.
  • 5,175 deaths occurred from ischaemic heart disease between 1 January 2020 and 26 May 2020.
  • The average number of deaths recorded for the same period between 2015 and 2019 was 5,649.
So we can see that deaths were higher from the no. 1 killer last year and prior years. Now this a lifestyle disease. Would you expect this to boom next year? Lack of exercise, obesity, smoking are major causers. Just wondering what a fair trade off is? A colleague had this condition, ongoing. He went full-on lifestyle change and reversed the symptoms. Unfortunately his weight is piling on during lockdown, his stress levels are elevated AND he is still working at the office.


COVID-19: There have been approximately 929,026 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 194,545 people have died of COVID-19 between January 2020 and September 15, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

What's an acceptable number for flu to start lockdowns? Those numbers are pretty large, despite a flu vaccine.

I lost a nephew last year to myocardial infarction, that's worse than a "bad flu".
We my friend are obviously worlds apart on what we should do.
You make some valid points , but the way I see it , this virus has the potential to kill and affect populations just like a Spanish flu.There is no doubt efforts worldwide to mitigate the damage have at least made a difference.

The medical people i have listened to think the virus is far more dangerous compared to flu.
Sorry to hear about your nephew.
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
9,724
18,955
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Ischaemic heart disease
Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.
  • 5,175 deaths occurred from ischaemic heart disease between 1 January 2020 and 26 May 2020.
  • The average number of deaths recorded for the same period between 2015 and 2019 was 5,649.
So we can see that deaths were higher from the no. 1 killer last year and prior years. Now this a lifestyle disease. Would you expect this to boom next year? Lack of exercise, obesity, smoking are major causers. Just wondering what a fair trade off is? A colleague had this condition, ongoing. He went full-on lifestyle change and reversed the symptoms. Unfortunately his weight is piling on during lockdown, his stress levels are elevated AND he is still working at the office.


COVID-19: There have been approximately 929,026 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 194,545 people have died of COVID-19 between January 2020 and September 15, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

What's an acceptable number for flu to start lockdowns? Those numbers are pretty large, despite a flu vaccine.

I lost a nephew last year to myocardial infarction, that's worse than a "bad flu".
If you want to use the US as your case study then you'll notice they had just under 35k deaths from the flu in the 2018-2019 flu season. That would mean that Covid has been almost six times as deadly as the flu in the US.
 

Contador

Club Legend
Aug 24, 2009
1,040
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The article highlights what i reckon is Dan main problem and threat is “this is our only option!” He has repeated that ad nauseam. But there are ways out of this, and more importantly than getting out of this, is living with this. The vaccine will never be the panacea some think it will. These viruses mutate every season and the vaccines can never keep up. We are losing billions. Put some of that money, which can be billions of dollars into health and aged care in a much more serious way than now. Employ many more people if needed. Keep those areas monitored and the rest of society opens up. The workers in those areas will be safer than ever. They can have the normal life they need to recharge their batteries so they can be professional. The economy gets going to pay for this and out kids, teenagers especially can not only live their precious youth, but live that youth with courage and hope for the future.
Yeh I agree we need to tax the rich far more heavily in order to properly fund a high class health service we can all be proud of. This would vastly improve our ability to respond to the current pandemic and those that come along in the future. It would significantly improve the health and wellbeing of our society, and create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

As you've pointed out repeatedly, privately-owned companies are clearly incompetent and can't be trusted to do their job properly when hired. The Victorian Government were mad to rely on them. Only public organisations like the military and police can do these important jobs properly. We need to stop allowing privately owned companies to operate in our society, particularly in important industries like health. We can start by nationalising all private health companies to ensure that our health system is run effectively and efficiently.

Once this transformation of the health system is achieved, we can move on to the rest of society. Removing incompetent privatised industries and replacing them with well run public systems will allow us to use our great wealth to truly improve the lives of our people, and allow our precious youth to live with courage and hope for the future.

So comrades, come rally.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
6,293
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Only 28 new cases today in Melbourne. Hang in there, it will be over soon.

28 is 4% of the worst day (700+), so definitely heading in the right direction.

So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?
 

BRWB

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2012
15,365
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AFL Club
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Yeh I agree we need to tax the rich far more heavily in order to properly fund a high class health service we can all be proud of. This would vastly improve our ability to respond to the current pandemic and those that come along in the future. It would significantly improve the health and wellbeing of our society, and create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

As you've pointed out repeatedly, privately-owned companies are clearly incompetent and can't be trusted to do their job properly when hired. The Victorian Government were mad to rely on them. Only public organisations like the military and police can do these important jobs properly. We need to stop allowing privately owned companies to operate in our society, particularly in important industries like health. We can start by nationalising all private health companies to ensure that our health system is run effectively and efficiently.

Once this transformation of the health system is achieved, we can move on to the rest of society. Removing incompetent privatised industries and replacing them with well run public systems will allow us to use our great wealth to truly improve the lives of our people, and allow our precious youth to live with courage and hope for the future.

So comrades, come rally.
The Workers have nothing to lose, but their chains

Proletarians of the world, unite!

Viva la revolution!

Lol
 

BRWB

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2012
15,365
23,007
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Only 28 new cases today in Melbourne. Hang in there, it will be over soon.

28 is 4% of the worst day (700+), so definitely heading in the right direction.

So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?
Haha celebrated less lockdown laws by getting a CV test because of a sniffle, cough and ear infection and doing some more hardcore lockdown until results come in

Yay
 

Mantis Toboggan

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2018
1,347
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Only 28 new cases today in Melbourne. Hang in there, it will be over soon.

28 is 4% of the worst day (700+), so definitely heading in the right direction.

So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?
A haircut is pretty high on my ‘To-do’ list.
 

Mattdougie

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 29, 2013
16,633
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Only 28 new cases today in Melbourne. Hang in there, it will be over soon.

28 is 4% of the worst day (700+), so definitely heading in the right direction.

So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?

Won’t change much as I suspect we will be back in Dan lockdown again pretty soon.

Have no faith this bloke won’t shut everything down even at the smallest jump in numbers but I truly hope I’m wrong
 

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ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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Only 28 new cases today in Melbourne. Hang in there, it will be over soon.

28 is 4% of the worst day (700+), so definitely heading in the right direction.

So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?
Campaigning for the lockdowns to be reinstated because being locked down is all I know now and I don't remember how to be a free man. I'm like one of those prisoners who becomes institutionalised and scared of the outside world.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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Won’t change much as I suspect we will be back in Dan lockdown again pretty soon.

Have no faith this bloke won’t shut everything down even at the smallest jump in numbers but I truly hope I’m wrong
The whole of Australia hopes you are wrong, which includes you!
 

Optimistic Dog

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2014
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Yes looking forward to getting out of lockdown. The virus has handeda tough gig to all governments however I will never forget what Dan and his government's bungling did to this state.

Unfortunately it is 2 years away before I can register my protest.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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Campaigning for the lockdowns to be reinstated because being locked down is all I know now and I don't remember how to be a free man. I'm like one of those prisoners who becomes institutionalised and scared of the outside world.
Small steps Scrag.
Take your toddler to playgroup’s, day care, etc. they need to ‘develop their immunity’/‘get you sick’ to make up for all the time in isolation.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
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I found this quote interesting, it’s from the head of the CDC is the US:

“masks are a more effective means of protection against the coronavirus than a potential vaccine.”

Interesting statement and from my understanding of how other coronavirus’s are transmitted, this would make sense. Stopping the virus from reaching the airways is better than waiting for it to infect the airways prior to the immune response from the vaccine.
 

Glaeken Oracle

All Australian
Dec 3, 2015
759
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Living in regional Vic - if you see an older bloke in a Dogs beanie skipping around central Ballarat, Creswick, Smythesdale, Learmonth, Beaufort and the like singing Hunnas songs at the top of his lungs while totally starkers - it's not me! But say hello anyway, just in case!

(I've broken my own self-imposed exile from this thread, but I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it... GOOOOO DOOOOOGGGGGGGGGZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Viva la revolution!)
 

Glaeken Oracle

All Australian
Dec 3, 2015
759
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Yeh I agree we need to tax the rich far more heavily in order to properly fund a high class health service we can all be proud of. This would vastly improve our ability to respond to the current pandemic and those that come along in the future. It would significantly improve the health and wellbeing of our society, and create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

As you've pointed out repeatedly, privately-owned companies are clearly incompetent and can't be trusted to do their job properly when hired. The Victorian Government were mad to rely on them. Only public organisations like the military and police can do these important jobs properly. We need to stop allowing privately owned companies to operate in our society, particularly in important industries like health. We can start by nationalising all private health companies to ensure that our health system is run effectively and efficiently.

Once this transformation of the health system is achieved, we can move on to the rest of society. Removing incompetent privatised industries and replacing them with well run public systems will allow us to use our great wealth to truly improve the lives of our people, and allow our precious youth to live with courage and hope for the future.

So comrades, come rally.
People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
 

King Harold

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2013
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People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
Good rant , really enjoyed it 😁
 

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
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People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
In the 80s and 90s cash strapped governments (of both persuasions) were looking for ways to pay for their next round of middle-class welfare (aka marginal seat vote-buying). Opportunistic industry had a longer term view than any government and was happy to oblige. Thus the great privatisation/outsourcing rort began.

Some things are appropriate for privatisation but I can't help feeling we've sold off much of the family silver for short-term benefits which have long since been pissed up against the wall.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
6,293
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People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
Rant anytime. It’s not like anyone who goes into this thread doesn’t rant on at least a weekly occurrence.
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
9,724
18,955
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
Fantastic rant, comrade. I wish more people of your ilk would venture in here ;)
 

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