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wayniac

Premium Platinum
Sep 28, 2009
870
697
Geelong
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We used to have a national carrier, government owned. We used to have a people owned national bank. World's greatest treasurer flogged them off.

I was convinced by an Aussie in London that Australia had it all, after all, he had the cash to travel. I didn't...

I'm not clear how 30 years later Australia is better off. except we have the world's most liveable prison camp <smirk>.

We made our own cars, radios, televisions, had a quarter acre block that any working stiff could afford.

And that erudite Peter Costello, expert economist admitted today that he couldn't follow the aged care doco. He has the degree that Keating hasn't.
 

Chicago1

I ain't got this flu thing!
Apr 19, 2001
20,601
19,528
Keilor East via Chicago
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So, conspiracy theorists, comrades, swingers, cultural warriors & intellectuals; what is the first thing you are going to do in the new Covid normal world?
I'm thinking about sitting here at home, watching TV and spending some time on my computer for a change.
 

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Mantis Toboggan

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2018
1,347
2,599
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People used to complain about Melbourne/Vic train services when they were Govt run. Yet, in their hey-day:

- they were a powerhouse employer, especially of apprentices who learnt skills across the board, from making in-house uniforms, badges, boom gates, repairing rolling stock, and many apprentices then moved on to other industries which benefited the entire state (as did the SEC and G&F)
- as Paul Mees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mees ) identified, they ran services efficiently (even using steam for metropolitan services in the 1920s I think they outperformed current services)
- they owned and maintained their own rolling stock
- they owned and maintained all the lines and infrastructure
- all stations were staffed

Now we have rails that buckle in extreme heat, signalling issues, etc, with operators and Govt often disowning vital infrastructure maintenance.

Same with the old MMTB.

Likewise the demise of the old SEC has spawned various retailers, and several poles & wires operators - virtually all foreign-owned. There are no apprentices coming through, and the blokes my age and older who are the remnants of a skilled maintenance work-force will not be replaced. Transformers, once all locally-manufactured, are imported from China.

Technology is a wonderful thing, and even if these industries returned to 100% Govt control, they would not resemble their old incarnations. But it's got to be better than a bunch of bean-counters o/s siphoning profits while the actual services slowly deteriorate. I'm sure I probably haven't got all the facts exactly right, but to me public transport and power, by definition, are services used by all (or most) of the population. Sure the old govt-owned entities could do with stream-lining for efficiencies in today's world, but the benefits of having them in govt hands has to out-weigh the current models of cost and delivery.

Anyway, I've gone off on another tangential rant in a thread I swore out of. I'm off to smell some roses.
I miss the Government owned rants we used to get back in the good old days.

Rants these days are flimsy and full of holes. Before they were privatised, rants were solid and unwavering. You could hang your hat on them.

This country’s going down the pan.
 

dogwatch

Premium Platinum
Jun 17, 2009
20,342
30,378
Canberra
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We used to have a national carrier, government owned. We used to have a people owned national bank. World's greatest treasurer flogged them off.

I was convinced by an Aussie in London that Australia had it all, after all, he had the cash to travel. I didn't...

I'm not clear how 30 years later Australia is better off. except we have the world's most liveable prison camp <smirk>.

We made our own cars, radios, televisions, had a quarter acre block that any working stiff could afford.

And that erudite Peter Costello, expert economist admitted today that he couldn't follow the aged care doco. He has the degree that Keating hasn't.
If Keating hadn't flogged off the Commonwealth Bank we might never have had a need for the Royal Commission into Banking. Just ponder that one.

The CBA was set up by a Labor government to counter the historically rapacious behaviour of the private banks (it seems some things never change). The Fisher government decided that a government owned bank would be a fair trader and would keep the other bastards honest. In 1947 Chifley wanted to nationalise all the banks. I can still remember TV advertisements in the 1960s extolling the virtues of "the free enterprise banks". They were still worried a Calwell or Whitlam government might nationalise them.

But just a quarter of a century later there was a complete about face. The Labor government in the 1990s seemed to ignore or forget the reason that the CBA was created. Or did they think that free enterprise banks had changed their stripes?

Anyway once it was privatised (1996) it didn't take long for the CBA to start behaving like all the others. The Labor government fell for the line that competition and self-regulation would work, LOL.

While it's quite appropriate to point the finger at Keating there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that if he hadn't privatised the CBA then John Howard would have quickly done so when he came to power.
 

Glaeken Oracle

All Australian
Dec 3, 2015
759
1,315
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Western Bulldogs
If Keating hadn't flogged off the Commonwealth Bank we might never have had a need for the Royal Commission into Banking. Just ponder that one.

The CBA was set up by a Labor government to counter the historically rapacious behaviour of the private banks (it seems some things never change). The Fisher government decided that a government owned bank would be a fair trader and would keep the other bastards honest. In 1947 Chifley wanted to nationalise all the banks. I can still remember TV advertisements in the 1960s extolling the virtues of "the free enterprise banks". They were still worried a Calwell or Whitlam government might nationalise them.

But just a quarter of a century later there was a complete about face. The Labor government in the 1990s seemed to ignore or forget the reason that the CBA was created. Or did they think that free enterprise banks had changed their stripes?

Anyway once it was privatised (1996) it didn't take long for the CBA to start behaving like all the others. The Labor government fell for the line that competition and self-regulation would work, LOL.

While it's quite appropriate to point the finger at Keating there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that if he hadn't privatised the CBA then John Howard would have quickly done so when he came to power.
Govts of all stripes have ****ed this country, some more than others. A post-war boom that could have set us up as a resource super-power, but also solidified our manufacturing of virtually any product (household, leisure, agricultural, commercial) was used by Menzies to cruise through 17 years of - nothing. Whitlam had some great ideas (some of which survive), but his rapacious speed of change (possibly due to a fear of not being there long enough) made him over-play his hand, plus unfortunately he was weighed down by (and had mis-placed faith in) a cabinet riddled with under-whelming lack of talent. His appeasement of Indonesia's invasion of Timor Leste is one that can be sheeted home to him personally. Fraser had some good humanitarian policies, but was weighed down by his treasurers (plural). Hawke and Keating likewise made some positive contributions, but as wayniac pointed out, the howlers were fairly significant (super guarantee in hindsight should have been setup in a way that would have had a far more significant benefit to the welfare burden today, but is ultimately an achievement). Howard, ugh, he and Costello wasted an opportunity in the vein of Menzies, although gun control was a tick. Since then, it's been largely a bunch of nothings, although I'd argue Gillard (despite the method of ascension) will ultimately be seen by history as a better leader compared to her immediate predecessor and subsequent vanilla-beans, if only for holding together a govt riddled, like most recent others, with incompetent nimcompoops.

What this country needs is a V to blow up a few institutions and re-calibrate our moral, societal and economic compasses.

Funnily enough, I've been waiting for lockdown to end so I can take a planned trip to the parliament houses in Spring Street, Parliament Drive and George Street, amongst others.
 

Fossie 32

Premium Platinum
Oct 6, 2002
21,906
12,143
1300GODOGS
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I found this quote interesting, it’s from the head of the CDC is the US:

“masks are a more effective means of protection against the coronavirus than a potential vaccine.”

Interesting statement and from my understanding of how other coronavirus’s are transmitted, this would make sense. Stopping the virus from reaching the airways is better than waiting for it to infect the airways prior to the immune response from the vaccine.
Plus he said that the vaccine would be unlikely to be available till the end of next year? ***mp was unhappy bout at leat one of these comments and rang the guy up to have a go at him about it then announced that 'he had made a mistake'....
 

jaxie1

Team Captain
Mar 19, 2011
407
362
Hamilton, Victoria
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Govts of all stripes have ****ed this country, some more than others. A post-war boom that could have set us up as a resource super-power, but also solidified our manufacturing of virtually any product (household, leisure, agricultural, commercial) was used by Menzies to cruise through 17 years of - nothing. Whitlam had some great ideas (some of which survive), but his rapacious speed of change (possibly due to a fear of not being there long enough) made him over-play his hand, plus unfortunately he was weighed down by (and had mis-placed faith in) a cabinet riddled with under-whelming lack of talent. His appeasement of Indonesia's invasion of Timor Leste is one that can be sheeted home to him personally. Fraser had some good humanitarian policies, but was weighed down by his treasurers (plural). Hawke and Keating likewise made some positive contributions, but as wayniac pointed out, the howlers were fairly significant (super guarantee in hindsight should have been setup in a way that would have had a far more significant benefit to the welfare burden today, but is ultimately an achievement). Howard, ugh, he and Costello wasted an opportunity in the vein of Menzies, although gun control was a tick. Since then, it's been largely a bunch of nothings, although I'd argue Gillard (despite the method of ascension) will ultimately be seen by history as a better leader compared to her immediate predecessor and subsequent vanilla-beans, if only for holding together a govt riddled, like most recent others, with incompetent nimcompoops.

What this country needs is a V to blow up a few institutions and re-calibrate our moral, societal and economic compasses.

Funnily enough, I've been waiting for lockdown to end so I can take a planned trip to the parliament houses in Spring Street, Parliament Drive and George Street, amongst others.
Very well said and Howard the worst of all deliberately going into an illegal war
 

BEaston

Hungry
Oct 9, 2013
6,133
6,340
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Unfortunately tougher restrictions are coming back for the UK, including a curfew, as they are going through the second wave now. Really spiking up the last 2 weeks.
 

ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
9,724
18,955
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I'm finding it really hard not to become despondent seeing another 45 cases today. Is there any lever left which can be pulled to put some more downward pressure on this thing? Can we bring in the military and start welding people's doors shut? Door-to-door mandatory testing?
 

Optimistic Dog

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2014
1,405
2,175
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I not sure which one I would take no new cases in Victoria for 28 plus days or a bulldogs flag 2020 if I could only have one probably the former.
 

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Mantis Toboggan

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2018
1,347
2,599
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I'm finding it really hard not to become despondent seeing another 45 cases today. Is there any lever left which can be pulled to put some more downward pressure on this thing? Can we bring in the military and start welding people's doors shut? Door-to-door mandatory testing?
One thing I can tell you is that no amount of pulling your lever is going to get us out of this situation.
 

Northernsoul74

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 19, 2016
5,902
6,767
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I'm finding it really hard not to become despondent seeing another 45 cases today. Is there any lever left which can be pulled to put some more downward pressure on this thing? Can we bring in the military and start welding people's doors shut? Door-to-door mandatory testing?
Stark reminder that those that ignore these lockdown rules can very quickly set us back weeks or months. Five families not doing as they’re told, take that cluster out and we’re going ok.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
2,052
3,690
AFL Club
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Great talk by Stan Grant on democracy during covid. On Radio National ‘Big Ideas’ program yesterday. On podcast for those with 40 minutes to listen.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
2,052
3,690
AFL Club
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Can you summarise it for me FW? If It sounds interesting I'll give it a listen.
That democracy was hard to achieve. And can be easily lost, and that the ‘virus’ of authoritarianism may be worse than the actual virus. I’ve have heard Stan in a few lectures recently echo similar sentiments. He is a pre-eminent Australian these days. He speaks with such class. He reminds me of Noel Person lectures over a decade ago that I used to listen to over and over. That still exist in the podcast web somewhere.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
2,052
3,690
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This is just classic 2020

Just watched all this. Strange hearing from the great man, he really is an enigma. I’m probably watching from a different angle to a lot on here. I am not a ‘born again’, but am a Christian. I don’t necessarily believe all that doomsday stuff that the born agains often talk about, but one day they will be right?
 

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