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Freshwater

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Oct 30, 2014
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Just a shame the same kudos isn't given to people who march for other important issues - people are very selfish and will march when they perceive something is a threat to themselves, but when it comes to issues that don't affect them directly (but are often more important) they couldn't GAF....
Maybe that is the case? Don’t know? But to me this rally for general freedom gives everyone the opportunity to then march for whatever cause they feel important to them. Without freedom there is nothing to build on.
 

Freshwater

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As I mentioned last week there probably is extremists there. As there often is. But these recent marches have been different. Because of massive amounts of ‘normal’ people there. I say normal in quotation marks because they, like me have been moved a bit earlier than others by the government overreach in our lives. The overwhelming thoughts by most people there are that when there is a problem in society we are the ones who don’t look to governments for the solutions but have a trust in the common man. This guy obviously wasn’t there. He got the amount wrong by tenfold and had he walked with us and seen the ethnic, religious and socio economic diversity he wouldn’t be putting everyone in his convenient little boxes that suit his political science narratives.
 

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Dogs_R_Us

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As I mentioned last week there probably is extremists there. As there often is. But these recent marches have been different. Because of massive amounts of ‘normal’ people there. I say normal in quotation marks because they, like me have been moved a bit earlier than others by the government overreach in our lives. The overwhelming thoughts by most people there are that when there is a problem in society we are the ones who don’t look to governments for the solutions but have a trust in the common man. This guy obviously wasn’t there. He got the amount wrong by tenfold and had he walked with us and seen the ethnic, religious and socio economic diversity he wouldn’t be putting everyone in his convenient little boxes that suit his political science narratives.
I wasn't there so I'm no help but the article did seem to be framed around his presumptions. The footage available does seem overwhelmingly of ordinary folk, even including those with tattoos, beards, loud voices and placards, who make the eyes of the media light up ;).
 

Norm De Guerre

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Just a shame the same kudos isn't given to people who march for other important issues - people are very selfish and will march when they perceive something is a threat to themselves, but when it comes to issues that don't affect them directly (but are often more important) they couldn't GAF....
You know what's a real shame?

The media in the country waiting until recent days to start shining a light on under who's auspices these rallies have been organised.

One has to wonder how many of the people would be marching or how happy they would be to be involved with the people behind these rallies.

These people can rant and rave and see conspiracies where there are none all they like. I will like the vast majority of people in this state continue to get on with my life.
 

LittleG

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I went to the March on Saturday and found it very inspiring. Not even a hint of trouble. My wife and I met up with people we hadn’t seen in years. The conversations were wonderful. Many many oldies, and families. The crowd was very ethnically diverse. With a large emphasis on Eastern European countries Poland, Russia, Croatia etc. And religiously diverse too. Many muslims and Indians and asians. Aboriginal groups. Met nurses who have been stood down. Loved talking to the old timers with their sense of history. Many anti vaxxers, but many like myself who are against the mandate and the proposed new pandemic bill. My wife was apprehensive about the counter protest but no trouble at all which is how it should be. We drove home on a high. We were stunned by the crowd size. I estimated 200,000, way more than I’d ever seen at the footy. We asked the Sargent there, she said police command were saying upwards of 150,000. Then the next day in the press hardly any coverage, some media outlets playing down crowd numbers. No one from Labor(obviously) but no one from Libs(Labor lite) no celebrity contributors. Just salt if the earth people. You could tell that the mainstream media is too invested in their own narrative to report things as they are/were. Herald-Sun had nothing because there was no fighting and Age and ABC talked things down because they are against these ideas. It shouldn’t matter which side they are on, they should report things as they are!
I heard a police source say 40-50,000. Easily the largest rally since BLM last year.
 

Freshwater

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You know what's a real shame?

The media in the country waiting until recent days to start shining a light on under who's auspices these rallies have been organised.

One has to wonder how many of the people would be marching or how happy they would be to be involved with the people behind these rallies.

These people can rant and rave and see conspiracies where there are none all they like. I will like the vast majority of people in this state continue to get on with my life.
I actually couldn’t care what some on the fringes are there for. Us and the overwhelming majority were there for the right reasons. Government overreach in our lives, no to mandates, keeping kids at school, freedom of assembly, no to creeping authoritarian behaviour of state/federal politicians, we won’t be pawns to medical fascism etc. you may not support these ideals but that is why we were there.
 

BrisDog

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Norm De Guerre

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I actually couldn’t care what some on the fringes are there for. Us and the overwhelming majority were there for the right reasons. Government overreach in our lives, no to mandates, keeping kids at school, freedom of assembly, no to creeping authoritarian behaviour of state/federal politicians, we won’t be pawns to medical fascism etc. you may not support these ideals but that is why we were there.
It's ironic that you don't care who is behind this movement, yet constantly rail against supposed authoritarian fascist ideals.

Take a peak behind the curtain, because the people that you project these ideals upon are actually the people you are marching behind.

Willingly or not, you are indeed a pawn and are being used to further an agenda that you claim to be against.

You may not care for those on the fringes of the movement, but you are all saying the same things.

 

Freshwater

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It's ironic that you don't care who is behind this movement, yet constantly rail against supposed authoritarian fascist ideals.

Take a peak behind the curtain, because the people that you project these ideals upon are actually the people you are marching behind.

Willingly or not, you are indeed a pawn and are being used to further an agenda that you claim to be against.

You may not care for those on the fringes of the movement, but you are all saying the same things.

As I said last week, extremeists. Who don’t speak for me. These types also can’t wreck the beautiful opportunities we’ve had to rally together recently. In all the years I’ve been on this forum I have never once advocated for ‘far right’ ideals. I could point out Dan Andrews calling those that are against his bills Nazis, what a despicable thing to say! My ideals are based on the basics of democratic values. What University students fought for in the 1960’s, free speech, was called left wing? They are just terrible labels. Freedom of choice in medical procedures is paramount in any society that calls itself democratic.
 

BrisDog

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Freedom of choice in medical procedures is paramount in any society that calls itself democratic.
It’s just an injection mate, hardly a ‘procedure’. And one still has a choice. No one is holding anyone down.

The whole ‘freedom’ narrative we are seeing in Australia must be pretty hilarious to the actual repressed in North Korea or Myanmar.
 

Freshwater

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It’s just an injection mate, hardly a ‘procedure’. And one still has a choice. No one is holding anyone down.

The whole ‘freedom’ narrative we are seeing in Australia must be pretty hilarious to the actual repressed in North Korea or Myanmar.
If we are starting to compare ourselves to them we are in strife. I have no problems with any shop or business that doesn’t want the unvaccinated in their business. That is their choice. But governments not allowing to make that choice is just wrong. What a lot of the old Eastern European’s were saying on Saturday was “this is how it started” “you are ‘free born’, it’s not governments role to give you your freedoms” “you don’t get freedom when you do X, Y or Z!”
 

NBates

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You know what's a real shame?

The media in the country waiting until recent days to start shining a light on under who's auspices these rallies have been organised.

One has to wonder how many of the people would be marching or how happy they would be to be involved with the people behind these rallies.

These people can rant and rave and see conspiracies where there are none all they like. I will like the vast majority of people in this state continue to get on with my life.
Me too. Except I'll still attend the rallies that I have in the past. And yes, I will be free to do so because I'm vaccinated.
 

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NBates

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If we are starting to compare ourselves to them we are in strife. I have no problems with any shop or business that doesn’t want the unvaccinated in their business. That is their choice. But governments not allowing to make that choice is just wrong. What a lot of the old Eastern European’s were saying on Saturday was “this is how it started” “you are ‘free born’, it’s not governments role to give you your freedoms” “you don’t get freedom when you do X, Y or Z!”
They do that every day when a criminal is jailed.
 

synchrodogcal

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If we are starting to compare ourselves to them we are in strife. I have no problems with any shop or business that doesn’t want the unvaccinated in their business. That is their choice. But governments not allowing to make that choice is just wrong. What a lot of the old Eastern European’s were saying on Saturday was “this is how it started” “you are ‘free born’, it’s not governments role to give you your freedoms” “you don’t get freedom when you do X, Y or Z!”
there's some sort of irony in the fact that without the vax mandate we'd probably be lucky to reach 70ish% fully vaxxed and as such would be headed for another locked down winter next year (if europe is any pointer), as it stands with nearly 90% vaxxed (thanks in no short way to vax mandates) we might be lucky enough to avoid this fate... the mandate is a small price to pay to live in a free society, imo
 

LittleG

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If we are starting to compare ourselves to them we are in strife. I have no problems with any shop or business that doesn’t want the unvaccinated in their business. That is their choice. But governments not allowing to make that choice is just wrong. What a lot of the old Eastern European’s were saying on Saturday was “this is how it started” “you are ‘free born’, it’s not governments role to give you your freedoms” “you don’t get freedom when you do X, Y or Z!”
Did you protest against the Federal Counter Terrorism laws?

The ones where they can lock anyone up, not show them any evidence, not even show the evidence to the accused in court and then lock them up?




This ‘Freedom’ stuff is really just a political cover story for anti-Labor party rallies. The above federal laws are much worse than anything Victoria is currently debating.
 

Mofra

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Did you protest against the Federal Counter Terrorism laws?

The ones where they can lock anyone up, not show them any evidence, not even show the evidence to the accused in court and then lock them up?




This ‘Freedom’ stuff is really just a political cover story for anti-Labor party rallies. The above federal laws are much worse than anything Victoria is currently debating.
Bingo - the extension of the 'detaining suspects without warrant' provisions are far scarier than any state legislation proposal we've had.
 

Norm De Guerre

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As I said last week, extremeists. Who don’t speak for me. These types also can’t wreck the beautiful opportunities we’ve had to rally together recently. In all the years I’ve been on this forum I have never once advocated for ‘far right’ ideals. I could point out Dan Andrews calling those that are against his bills Nazis, what a despicable thing to say! My ideals are based on the basics of democratic values. What University students fought for in the 1960’s, free speech, was called left wing? They are just terrible labels. Freedom of choice in medical procedures is paramount in any society that calls itself democratic.
You can say that all you like, but by attending their rallies it is a tacit approval of what these same extremists are saying. So in fact they are speaking for you.

It wouldn't be fair for Dan Andrews to call you a far-right Nazi, how could he? However, it is fair for him to call out the public faces and organisations behind this spate of anti-everything marches for the same.

Because whether you like or want to acknowledge it, that's who they are.
 
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footscray1973

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Warning: rambling post!

I'm keen to see examples of where the State Govt has mandated that any particular individual Victorian must be vaccinated.

The mandates are in some industries where there is inherent and elevated risk. Anyone in those industries has a free choice - get vaccinated or seek a new career.

If you're a nurse and don't want to be vaccinated, you're no longer a nurse but that is a choice you are free to make.
If you're employed at an airport, you are free to seek employment elsewhere if not double vaccinated.

Similarly, if you want to be a police officer, but have a criminal conviction as prescribed by the entry criteria, you are free to seek employment that is not as a police officer.
There are medical requirements (nationally) for example for driving heavy vehicles in Australia, or working in mining. If you don't pass them, or choose not to have the medical, you are free to seek employment elsewhere.

All the people who work in these industries in Victoria are free to choose whether they continue in those industries or not:

Also, Qanon adherents still evident in the weekend protests, as opposing groups marched:

Also interesting that there was a significant counter protest turn-out as well - so what proportion were they of the alleged 200k figure?

And only 10k in Sydney, where Craig Kelly alleges (direct quote):

"We don’t live in a free society, we live in a prison camp."
I would like to see him go a real prison camp anywhere in the world - Australian detention, international refugee, Uighur, and complain to the inhabitants there how cruel the governments here in Australia are to the general populace.

And an earlier post by our friend claims Andrews referred to people as Nazis - might want to do some actual research there champ. It was an upper house Liberal MP who made the comparison to 1933 Germany, and Jewish leaders and Andrews condemned anti-Semitism (as did Guy):



Anyway, I think several posters have made similar (and briefer and clearer!) points than I have, so I'll just quote this one again, which was particularly apt:

also, not trying to have a dig fw, but i spent my weekend free as a bird walking through the otway rainforest, you were captive to a suspect narrative in the middle of the city... you might want to reassess your weekend priorities mate
 

Freshwater

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Bingo - the extension of the 'detaining suspects without warrant' provisions are far scarier than any state legislation proposal we've had.
I think the reason people are protesting this one rather than that one is that they’ve seen and felt Andrews first hand. These laws are all bluff mostly. But we’ve had two years of a premier willing to go further than any leader world wide.
 

Freshwater

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Did you protest against the Federal Counter Terrorism laws?

The ones where they can lock anyone up, not show them any evidence, not even show the evidence to the accused in court and then lock them up?




This ‘Freedom’ stuff is really just a political cover story for anti-Labor party rallies. The above federal laws are much worse than anything Victoria is currently debating.
No it is not.
 

Freshwater

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also, not trying to have a dig fw, but i spent my weekend free as a bird walking through the otway rainforest, you were captive to a suspect narrative in the middle of the city... you might want to reassess your weekend priorities mate
I have spent a few weekends in that same rainforest this year when family members in Melbs were locked down. We love that forest, but we also enjoyed spending time with people who get history, it was also inspiring under the trees with very old friends connecting again.
 

Norm De Guerre

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I think the reason people are protesting this one rather than that one is that they’ve seen and felt Andrews first hand. These laws are all bluff mostly. But we’ve had two years of a premier willing to go further than any leader world wide.
Your hyperbole knows no bounds.

When the epidemic broke out in Wuhan people were having the exits to their apartment blocks literally welded shut.
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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I find the arguments against the bill from the anti-Dan crowd hilarious. They blame him for the previous lockdowns while arguing against a bill that gives him the power to cause lockdowns. There's a bit of a gap in logic there me thinks :think:
 

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