Coronavirus/COVID-19

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LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
8,538
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I think the reason people are protesting this one rather than that one is that they’ve seen and felt Andrews first hand. These laws are all bluff mostly. But we’ve had two years of a premier willing to go further than any leader world wide.
Ask Witness X.

Oh that’s right, I can’t mention their real name and they are in jail. So, it will be hard for you ask them. It certainly wasn’t a bluff then.
 

King Harold

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2013
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Got to say the ramblings of Freshwater are bordering on paranoia.
I assume he was not a believer in , plague , Spanish flu , smallpox , polio etc either ?

He has lost me in this whole debate because I have asked him a very simple question many times and he has refused to respond ( I think for very obvious reasons )

Again , If we ALL decide to use our God given democratic right and none of us get vaccinated , who does he expect will look after the sick and dying ?

It pains me to say but it seems Freshwater has no concerns about the medical workforce that is already stretched , sorry but his whole argument smacks of pure selfishness !

The “ greater good “ be dammed “
 

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footscray1973

Premiership Player
May 17, 2004
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Got to say the ramblings of Freshwater are bordering on paranoia.
I assume he was not a believer in , plague , Spanish flu , smallpox , polio etc either ?

He has lost me in this whole debate because I have asked him a very simple question many times and he has refused to respond ( I think for very obvious reasons )

Again , If we ALL decide to use our God given democratic right and none of us get vaccinated , who does he expect will look after the sick and dying ?

It pains me to say but it seems Freshwater has no concerns about the medical workforce that is already stretched , sorry but his whole argument smacks of pure selfishness !

The “ greater good “ be dammed “
Agree King, comes across as all "me, me, me", yet happy to enjoy the trappings of society.

I read their posts now imagining a Craig Kelly or Pauline Hanson voice in delivery.
 

LittleG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 18, 2015
8,538
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Western Bulldogs
NSW Government ignored health advice and lockdown specific suburbs instead of the whole city. Thousands of people were locked into their suburbs AGAINST the health advise…. The health advice said ALL of Sydney needed to be locked down not just those in disadvantaged areas…. Who all voted against that Government who discriminated against them!!!!

IF the Victorian Laws were present in NSW, then the public would have received the Health advise after 7 days and could have launched massive city wide protests!!!! But they don’t have the proposed Victorian laws. This document was suppose to be kept secret and the NSW government was going to get away with it.

Instead, people find out about it months later and can now only vote in their safe Labor seats against the party they don’t vote for anyway….


This is WORTH protesting about.
 
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NBates

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2007
7,525
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West Footscray
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Western Bulldogs
Warning: rambling post!

I'm keen to see examples of where the State Govt has mandated that any particular individual Victorian must be vaccinated.

The mandates are in some industries where there is inherent and elevated risk. Anyone in those industries has a free choice - get vaccinated or seek a new career.

If you're a nurse and don't want to be vaccinated, you're no longer a nurse but that is a choice you are free to make.
If you're employed at an airport, you are free to seek employment elsewhere if not double vaccinated.

Similarly, if you want to be a police officer, but have a criminal conviction as prescribed by the entry criteria, you are free to seek employment that is not as a police officer.
There are medical requirements (nationally) for example for driving heavy vehicles in Australia, or working in mining. If you don't pass them, or choose not to have the medical, you are free to seek employment elsewhere.

All the people who work in these industries in Victoria are free to choose whether they continue in those industries or not:

Also, Qanon adherents still evident in the weekend protests, as opposing groups marched:

Also interesting that there was a significant counter protest turn-out as well - so what proportion were they of the alleged 200k figure?

And only 10k in Sydney, where Craig Kelly alleges (direct quote):

"We don’t live in a free society, we live in a prison camp."
I would like to see him go a real prison camp anywhere in the world - Australian detention, international refugee, Uighur, and complain to the inhabitants there how cruel the governments here in Australia are to the general populace.

And an earlier post by our friend claims Andrews referred to people as Nazis - might want to do some actual research there champ. It was an upper house Liberal MP who made the comparison to 1933 Germany, and Jewish leaders and Andrews condemned anti-Semitism (as did Guy):



Anyway, I think several posters have made similar (and briefer and clearer!) points than I have, so I'll just quote this one again, which was particularly apt:
Applause.

We don't want paedophiles working with children do we? So all people who want to work with children are forced to go through a working with children's check by law. Oh, the privacy breaches!! The totalitarianism/facism injustice of it all!!!

I don't want to pass on a virulent virus to my mother in law in her late 80s - even tho she's vaxed she is more susceptible as she is being treated for cancer. But I cannot be sure that I'm mixing with the un-vaxed who have no immunity boost and will more easily pass on the virus unless there are specific requirements as to who is let into certain venues and who isn't. I would also like to protect the emergency services who might be tied up treating those people who don't believe in science, yet will turn up at emergency depts and use 000 as soon as they can't breathe in case people who have done the community thing can't get in over someone who hasn't.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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Warning: rambling post!

I'm keen to see examples of where the State Govt has mandated that any particular individual Victorian must be vaccinated.

The mandates are in some industries where there is inherent and elevated risk. Anyone in those industries has a free choice - get vaccinated or seek a new career.

If you're a nurse and don't want to be vaccinated, you're no longer a nurse but that is a choice you are free to make.
If you're employed at an airport, you are free to seek employment elsewhere if not double vaccinated.

Similarly, if you want to be a police officer, but have a criminal conviction as prescribed by the entry criteria, you are free to seek employment that is not as a police officer.
There are medical requirements (nationally) for example for driving heavy vehicles in Australia, or working in mining. If you don't pass them, or choose not to have the medical, you are free to seek employment elsewhere.

All the people who work in these industries in Victoria are free to choose whether they continue in those industries or not:

Also, Qanon adherents still evident in the weekend protests, as opposing groups marched:

Also interesting that there was a significant counter protest turn-out as well - so what proportion were they of the alleged 200k figure?

And only 10k in Sydney, where Craig Kelly alleges (direct quote):

"We don’t live in a free society, we live in a prison camp."
I would like to see him go a real prison camp anywhere in the world - Australian detention, international refugee, Uighur, and complain to the inhabitants there how cruel the governments here in Australia are to the general populace.

And an earlier post by our friend claims Andrews referred to people as Nazis - might want to do some actual research there champ. It was an upper house Liberal MP who made the comparison to 1933 Germany, and Jewish leaders and Andrews condemned anti-Semitism (as did Guy):



Anyway, I think several posters have made similar (and briefer and clearer!) points than I have, so I'll just quote this one again, which was particularly apt:
I think Freshwater is vaxed, isn’t he?
But don’t let that get in the way of want they want to hear.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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I simply value freedom of choice along the lines of traditional liberalism and democratic values above a safety first, nanny state approach to life. You can call it selfish, I reckon state interference in your life is … I am always ready for debate without criticism of character.
 

BrisDog

Premiership Player
Dec 13, 2012
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I simply value freedom of choice along the lines of traditional liberalism and democratic values above a safety first, nanny state approach to life. You can call it selfish, I reckon state interference in your life is … I am always ready for debate without criticism of character.
NSW is interesting Freshwater - they have introduced similar legislation prior to Victoria. There have been very few, if any protests in Sydney in relation to these laws that replicate the Victorian laws.

Why do you think this is? What do you think of the NSW Liberal Goverment? In particular do you view Berijiklian and Perrottet in the same vein as Dan Andrews?
 

Charlie Bucket

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2015
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I simply value freedom from consequence and responsibility above a safety first, nanny state approach to life. You can call it selfish, I reckon state interference in your life is … I am always ready for debate without criticism of character.
Fixed it for you Fresh. You seem to not know that all those at the rally’s do have freedom of choice. We don’t live in a dictatorship like some others on this planet.

How, after all this time, do you still not realise this?
 

footscray1973

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May 17, 2004
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But don’t let that get in the way of want they want to hear.
Funnily enough I never asserted you weren't vaxed or an anti-vaxer. You're the one going on about 'freedoms', I highlighted several examples of people being free to choose, and that there is no State govt mandated vaccination requirement of individual citizens - there is a Fed mandate for aged care workers, and various mandates for workers generally in other industries.

You asserted Andrews made a reference to Nazis to describe protestors. Where? You didn't address my refutation of yours there either. Par for the course.

You pick and choose to address very few assertions you are called out on.

I don't need to question your character - you prove your inability to read widely (another assertion you made pages back - remember that one?). I try not to attack you directly - other than the reference to what I now imagine your voice is like when I read your posts, disparaging I admit, but when you repeatedly make unfounded assertions while failing to engage with anyone who questions them, well, it's pointless going on with the discussion really.

You pick out a single point from posts, as you do over and over again, because addressing the rest is beyond your modus operandi for some reason.

If you want to consider this a personal attack, rather than an attack on what you post, knock yourself out. It's just too easy picking holes in what you believe and claim to be facts. Enjoy fantasy world.

Meanwhile, I've got my freedom back, so have virtually all of my family and friends.

And the experiences in recent days of family members in the health network and retail being abused for requesting vaccination proof as requested of them by their employers has made me lean closer to supporting govts and/or legislation excluding the deliberately unvaccinated from swathes of society (sorry dogwatch ). It's a telling reflection of character when a tall, large male abuses health staff, or middle-aged adults abuse a 19/20 kid for preventing them from entering a retail establishment, when they know full well before venturing to the health service or retail store they are not permitted to enter.
 

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Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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Funnily enough I never asserted you weren't vaxed or an anti-vaxer. You're the one going on about 'freedoms', I highlighted several examples of people being free to choose, and that there is no State govt mandated vaccination requirement of individual citizens - there is a Fed mandate for aged care workers, and various mandates for workers generally in other industries.

You asserted Andrews made a reference to Nazis to describe protestors. Where? You didn't address my refutation of yours there either. Par for the course.

You pick and choose to address very few assertions you are called out on.

I don't need to question your character - you prove your inability to read widely (another assertion you made pages back - remember that one?). I try not to attack you directly - other than the reference to what I now imagine your voice is like when I read your posts, disparaging I admit, but when you repeatedly make unfounded assertions while failing to engage with anyone who questions them, well, it's pointless going on with the discussion really.

You pick out a single point from posts, as you do over and over again, because addressing the rest is beyond your modus operandi for some reason.

If you want to consider this a personal attack, rather than an attack on what you post, knock yourself out. It's just too easy picking holes in what you believe and claim to be facts. Enjoy fantasy world.

Meanwhile, I've got my freedom back, so have virtually all of my family and friends.

And the experiences in recent days of family members in the health network and retail being abused for requesting vaccination proof as requested of them by their employers has made me lean closer to supporting govts and/or legislation excluding the deliberately unvaccinated from swathes of society (sorry dogwatch ). It's a telling reflection of character when a tall, large male abuses health staff, or middle-aged adults abuse a 19/20 kid for preventing them from entering a retail establishment, when they know full well before venturing to the health service or retail store they are not permitted to enter.
Andrews called them Nazis last week in parliament.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
2,744
4,861
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
We made a pact with the devil when we went from hunter/gatherer societies to living in cities.

In return for a (mostly) steady food supply and an army to protect us, we gave up 'freedom'. It's the story of Adam and Eve.
Fixed it for you Fresh. You seem to not know that all those at the rally’s do have freedom of choice. We don’t live in a dictatorship like some others on this planet.

How, after all this time, do you still not realise this?
Of course I realise this. But we are heading in the direction away from our best ideals of freedoms. We have a state government who locked its citizens down longer than any city on earth! And is not slowing down on the heavy handed rhetoric. The latest with the 12-15 year olds not allowed in indoor sports after missing most of the last 2 years of schools is this week is so cruel that we are numb to it. Do you reckon this state government won’t lock us down again? Some of us just want to say, “we’ve done what you’ve asked for two years, but that is enough, back off and just let us live” in polite language.
 

NBates

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2007
7,525
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Of course I realise this. But we are heading in the direction away from our best ideals of freedoms. We have a state government who locked its citizens down longer than any city on earth! And is not slowing down on the heavy handed rhetoric. The latest with the 12-15 year olds not allowed in indoor sports after missing most of the last 2 years of schools is this week is so cruel that we are numb to it. Do you reckon this state government won’t lock us down again? Some of us just want to say, “we’ve done what you’ve asked for two years, but that is enough, back off and just let us live” in polite language.
Why can't we give killers the same freedom? Because they harm others. If govt needs to lock down to help our emergency services I'm all for it. I don't want to have a heart attack & can't get through to 000 or emergency at a hospital. Govt isn't doing this to piss people off! There's a loss of votes in doing that you know.
 

King Harold

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2013
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Andrews called them Nazis last week in parliament.
Credibility is now at an all time low.
Why don’t you post what was said for some context ?

Noice again you have again avoided a very simple question I have put to you ?

Good luck for your crusade , what ever the hell it is !
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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What are the restrictions that vaccinated people are subject to? That's what has been asked.
12-15 year old not allowed to skate parks and basketball is sick.
Wait until the state wants to overreach again and again and again….it won’t end until we say enough!! No more.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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Why can't we give killers the same freedom? Because they harm others. If govt needs to lock down to help our emergency services I'm all for it. I don't want to have a heart attack & can't get through to 000 or emergency at a hospital. Govt isn't doing this to piss people off! There's a loss of votes in doing that you know.
-They broke the law! -A law cannot violate a higher law like the constitution! -And it not condoning a medical treatment done on your own body is NOT breaking a law!!!
 

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