Coronavirus/COVID-19

[footscray1973]

Can someone enlighten what our "well read" friend is on about with these allusions to "eastern Europeans"?
Should I expect Andrews to suddenly roll Victorian tanks into ACT or across Bass Strait on the Abel Tasman in winter in a twenty first century Operation Barbarossa, or is he possibly secretly building gulags in remote parts of Gippsland?
This is becoming off the charts conspiracy babble now. And offensive to people like my parents and grandparents, who lived inter-war and war years under an actual dictator. That's a dictator with unfettered power by way of military control, secret police, and concentration camps.
But I can see how easily it is to confuse that with Victoria in 2021.
FMD

 

[The Buck]

Can someone enlighten what our "well read" friend is on about with these allusions to "eastern Europeans"?
Should I expect Andrews to suddenly roll Victorian tanks into ACT or across Bass Strait on the Abel Tasman in winter in a twenty first century Operation Barbarossa, or is he possibly secretly building gulags in remote parts of Gippsland?
This is becoming off the charts conspiracy babble now. And offensive to people like my parents and grandparents, who lived inter-war and war years under an actual dictator. That's a dictator with unfettered power by way of military control, secret police, and concentration camps.
But I can see how easily it is to confuse that with Victoria in 2021.
FMD

Take your pick:

A List of the Most Common Cognitive Distortions

1. All-or-Nothing Thinking / Polarized Thinking. ...
2. Overgeneralisation. ...
3. Mental Filter. ...
4. Disqualifying the Positive. ...
5. Jumping to Conclusions – Mind Reading. ...
6. Jumping to Conclusions – Fortune Telling. ...
7. Magnification (Catastrophising) or Minimization. ...
8. Emotional Reasoning.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I had absolutely nothing to do with the shrine protests. They may have some overlap people but these protests are completely different. And as for my democratic rights only being fulfilled every 4 years??? Voting is one of many pillars in democracy. Minority rights, innocent until proven guilty, equality before the law, freedom of expression, speech, religion, association, assembly etc. are all pillars every bit as important to a democracy as is voting a representative every 4 years. We don’t vote in a king or emperor.

Your lack of participation at the Shrine rally is immaterial to the discussion at hand. Other than its incredibly convenient for your argument that you should look to distance the current protests from what came before. As is your sidestepping of the concerns of the representative from the RSL about the use of the national flags during all these protests. What those that dont suffer from myopathy are seeing is the same witches brew of far-right, Sovereign citizen, QAnon, anti-vax, anti-labor government fringe dwelling nut jobs. Sure there may be some regular people that have arrived at the same ideals of their own accord or after getting sucked into their social media rabbit holes but those that make up the driving force behind this movement have been one and the same since the protests began.

You keep banging on about minority rights as if they should usurp those of the majority. Tell me how this actually squares with notion of democracy?

We all know our premier is more willing than any leader in the civilised world to lockdown Victorians. So I suppose it’s just recent history teaching us this. When I talk to any of the Eastern Europeans there they can see all the hallmarks starting of what either they or their people’s went through in the 20th century.

Democracy works when power is diffused. Diffused across levels of government, across houses of government and even within parties. So people just can not fathom giving the most powerful man in the state more power! People are not marching because they think things are fine.

Again with the insane hyperbole and the unverifiable anecdotes.

How many times does it need to be pointed out to you that the Bill as it stands is very unlikely to pass the legislative council?

The government will either have to withdraw or completely water down the bill as it stands. There was zero chance that they could ram the bill through.

Your clutching of pearls aside. Democracy is not under any real threat and is continuing to function as designed in this state and the vast majority of people it serves are getting on with their lives.

 

[King Harold]

In Victoria, the ALP has been in Govt for 25 of the past 50 years, 25 of the past 40, 19 of the last 30, 16 of the last 20 and 7 of the last 10. "..epsilons to enslave in various forms of drudgery..." That should be in every English Expression text in the State.

Here’s a little advice from a King to my future drinking buddy :
remember we are mostly Western suburbs boys or girls , posting cryptic pearls of wisdom on our forum is not likely to fly !

You will notice my posts will be understood by the most common amongst us

 

[Home Alone]

Democracy works when power is diffused. Diffused across levels of government, across houses of government and even within parties. So people just can not fathom giving the most powerful man in the state more power! People are not marching because they think things are fine.

Normally
But democracy is a slow process. And not the ideal process during during war and I don't know, a pandemic.

 

[King Harold]

We all know our premier is more willing than any leader in the civilised world to lockdown Victorians. So I suppose it’s just recent history teaching us this. When I talk to any of the Eastern Europeans there they can see all the hallmarks starting of what either they or their people’s went through in the 20th century.

Like most others , I am speechless.
I feel like I want to put my arm around you to give some comfort.
The world is a scary place right now
( You are so concerned about democracy —how’s things in the USA in that regard ? )
The Victorian government is the least of the worlds problems .

 

[Freshwater]

Michael Leunig summed it up well.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

View attachment 1289156
Michael Leunig summed it up well.

You aren’t vaccinated are you Freshwater?

You say you are, but no one who’s vaxxed would carry on as much as you have over the last 12mths.

Seems to be getting worse too.

Just get the jab and get on with your life. Whinging relentlessly in an online footy forum over months and months isn’t good for your soul.

 

[Freshwater]

You aren’t vaccinated are you Freshwater?

You say you are, but no one who’s vaxxed would carry on as much as you have over the last 12mths.

Seems to be getting worse too.

Just get the jab and get on with your life. Whinging relentlessly in an online footy forum over months and months isn’t good for your soul.

I am vaccinated, 200%, totally of my own free will with AZ months ago when nobody wanted what I considered the best vax so far. I even took my 15 year old yesterday to get his 2nd dose. But I do not believe in mandates and definitely am against this new bill, and against nearly all forms of lockdown of healthy and willing people.
Here is a good piece by John Sylvester in the Age.

 

[Mutt]

Just tone down the personal attacks on here please folks.

 

[NBates]

Take your pick:

A List of the Most Common Cognitive Distortions

1. All-or-Nothing Thinking / Polarized Thinking. ...
2. Overgeneralisation. ...
3. Mental Filter. ...
4. Disqualifying the Positive. ...
5. Jumping to Conclusions – Mind Reading. ...
6. Jumping to Conclusions – Fortune Telling. ...
7. Magnification (Catastrophising) or Minimization. ...
8. Emotional Reasoning.

Sounds like BPD

 

[footscray1973]

Leunig, an ardent anti-vaxxer, trivialises the deaths of Chinese people who tried to stand up for freedom and democracy in their country by suggesting politicians here are forcing people to be vaccinated. And that is somehow to be applauded?

Again, no one is being forced to have a vaccination. No one. Every person in this country is free to choose to not be vaccinated. As has been stated over and over and over again, with that choice comes consequences. But the bottom line is - you don't HAVE to be vaccinated, if you choose not to. You might need to change careers or forego employment altogether, miss out on social participation, even be ostracised by your own family and friends. But that is entirely YOUR choice.

Also, as someone pointed out above, the bill causing so much angst is not going to pass in its current form. Of the cross-benchers, Barton of the Transport Matters(?) party sounded reasonable in his pragmatism to negotiate with the govt (I'm not sure why they wouldn't have included him and other cross-benchers in discussions in the first place though). The LC will ensure the bill will need to be substantially amended, and I suspect the govt are working on that scenario anyway. I think the govt have shot themselves in the foot in failing to acknowledge the issues in the proposed legislation early on, even when it appeared they had cross-bench numbers to push it through, especially after the various legal bodies raised their concerns. But as all the institutions involved have agreed, a bill in some form needs to exist for the future. None of them are saying that such a bill should not exist - the concerns are with the actual content of it. And this is something many of the 'protestors' who are given air-time on any media do not understand. They all seem to think they are protesting to prevent any bill at all. Naive is a kind way to describe them.

 

[D Mitchell]

Tone it down, Freshwater, you are upsetting the littlies.

 

[NBates]

Leunig's a doggies man isn't he?

 

[footscray1973]

Leunig's a doggies man isn't he?

Yep, pretty sure I saw him at an AFLW game a few years ago. Grew up in Footscray, there's a well-known print of his labelled something like "Footscray training night 1954".

 

[King Harold]

Democracy works when power is diffused. Diffused across levels of government, across houses of government and even within parties. So people just can not fathom giving the most powerful man in the state more power! People are not marching because they think things are fine.

Were you around when Bolte was premier ?
His democracy was what he said it was !
Here we are all these years later , we still have a democracy , as imperfect as it is .
So have a Bex and try to smell the roses for a while.

 

[dogwatch]

I am vaccinated, 200%, totally of my own free will with AZ months ago when nobody wanted what I considered the best vax so far. I even took my 15 year old yesterday to get his 2nd dose. But I do not believe in mandates and definitely am against this new bill, and against nearly all forms of lockdown of healthy and willing people.
Here is a good piece by John Sylvester in the Age.View attachment 1289208

Nobody is denying anyone the right to protest. I'm sure there are thousands out there with sincere and well meant objections.

However threatening the lives of elected politicians, provoking and promoting violence, likening the government to Nazis while hijacking other people's legitimate concerns in order to promote Trumpism and other extremist agenda is not on.

 

[Dry Rot]

With the probable rise of Covid Omicron we need to really boost Pfizer booster shots. Already there are calls to reduce the timing from 6 months to 2 - 5 months, but I don't think that is good enough.

It has to be weekly, otherwise you cannot work, shop or breathe.

What could possibly go wrong? A ****ing lot with your heart





Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712#

If you have had Pfizer shots, you have rooted your heart.

 

[Arkangel]

Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712#

If you have had Pfizer shots, you have rooted your heart.

Note that this is just a conference abstract, rather than a published piece of research (i.e., it's a short summary of a conference talk someone gave). Conference talks tend to have far weaker (if any) review standards than published articles, and are often used to present preliminary or suggestive, rather than conclusive, data. Further, note also that an expression of concern pertaining to that abstract has been issued by the journal, which you can find here. I quote the relevant contents below:

Soon after publication of the above abstract in Circulation, it was brought to the American Heart Association Com- mittee on Scientific Sessions Program’s attention that there are potential errors in the abstract. Specifically, there are several typographical errors, there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used.
We are publishing this Expression of Concern until a suitable correction is published to indicate that the abstract in its current version may not be reliable.

For mine, the "only anecdotal data was [sic] used" is the biggest red flag. It doesn't mean that what the author is saying is wrong as such, but it does suggest that we shouldn't place much stock in it without further information (and better data).

 

[Dry Rot]

Note that this is just a conference abstract, rather than a published piece of research (i.e., it's a short summary of a conference talk someone gave). Conference talks tend to have far weaker (if any) review standards than published articles, and are often used to present preliminary or suggestive, rather than conclusive, data. Further, note also that an expression of concern pertaining to that abstract has been issued by the journal, which you can find here. I quote the relevant contents below:



For mine, the "only anecdotal data was [sic] used" is the biggest red flag. It doesn't mean that what the author is saying is wrong as such, but it does suggest that we shouldn't place much stock in it without further information (and better data).

The vid and and the whistleblower didn't concern you?

 

[Draft Pick]

The vid and and the whistleblower didn't concern you?

The Vid is from a media organisation that according to this page has corona conspiracies as a specialty.

Why GB News is biased news

Boycott GB News

boycottgbnews.org

They are Britain’s Fox News who specialise in ‘Anti Woke’ content. In other words right wing trash.

How GB News is bringing US-style opinionated TV news to the UK

New channel is keen to reject comparisons with Fox News despite positioning itself as ‘anti-woke’

www.theguardian.com

We can laugh at GB News, but the rise of the UK’s new rightwing media…

The channel may be in crisis already, but its eerie similarity to the context in which its US-counterpart Fox News emerged suggest that the threats it…

www.huckmag.com

 

[Arkangel]

The vid and and the whistleblower didn't concern you?

I didn't watch the video. I should point out that this is not because I had a negative outlook toward the topic or the source (which I knew nothing about until the post above mine); rather I generally don't like videos as a source of information, unless the information to be conveyed is necessarily visual: I think there is too much scope in that medium for irrelevant features (e.g., speakers' attractiveness, accents, dialects, fluency, body language) to influence a viewer's perception, which is not what I'm generally after in a science/health/etc. context. Additionally, I don't think videos are an efficient way to communicate information, because reading tends to be much quicker than listening to/watching people speak, and because people rarely speak with the same clarity and precision with which they can write; but that's another issue. Nonetheless, if whatever information from the video you think is worth communicating is available in a written form, and you know where to find it, I'd gladly read it.

 

[ScragCity]

With the probable rise of Covid Omicron we need to really boost Pfizer booster shots. Already there are calls to reduce the timing from 6 months to 2 - 5 months, but I don't think that is good enough.

It has to be weekly, otherwise you cannot work, shop or breathe.

What could possibly go wrong? A ****ing lot with your heart





Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712#

If you have had Pfizer shots, you have rooted your heart.

Just get the vax so you can crawl out of your Mum's basement and stop wasting your life reading this crap.

 

[Home Alone]

The vid and and the whistleblower didn't concern you?

No. It didnt.

What does concern me is your disregard for public safety, and your recruitment for your line of thinking.

 

[Mofra]

Democracy works when power is diffused. Diffused across levels of government, across houses of government and even within parties. So people just can not fathom giving the most powerful man in the state more power! People are not marching because they think things are fine.

Democracy works best when the people with power are elected officials and not state appointed people most can't name.
Democracy works best when decisions are transparent.
Democracy works best when instead of one person having power, there is widespread parliamentary oversight of decisions made

Again, I don't think you really know what you're marching against.