Coronavirus/COVID-19

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CarnTheScray

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Jun 4, 2019
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With the probable rise of Covid Omicron we need to really boost Pfizer booster shots. Already there are calls to reduce the timing from 6 months to 2 - 5 months, but I don't think that is good enough.

It has to be weekly, otherwise you cannot work, shop or breathe.

What could possibly go wrong? A ****ing lot with your heart





Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712#

If you have had Pfizer shots, you have rooted your heart.

How long does this process take. My heart hasn’t given up yet. I’ll remember to save this comment and come back in 5 years time to let you know that Im alive and you’re talking sh*t.
 

Freshwater

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Oct 30, 2014
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Democracy works best when the people with power are elected officials and not state appointed people most can't name.
Democracy works best when decisions are transparent.
Democracy works best when instead of one person having power, there is widespread parliamentary oversight of decisions made

Again, I don't think you really know what you're marching against.
I have mentioned what I am marching against, lockdowns causing more harm than good, mandates (adults make their own choices) and the pandemic bill because of the concentration of power in one man. You may not agree with any of these things, but I know why for the first time in my life I have been compelled to march for these freedoms, because all other causes flow from these. That old wise souls like Michael Leunig and Susan Alberti are in agreement says much.
 

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Mofra

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I have mentioned what I am marching against, lockdowns causing more harm than good, mandates (adults make their own choices) and the pandemic bill because of the concentration of power in one man. You may not agree with any of these things, but I know why for the first time in my life I have been compelled to march for these freedoms, because all other causes flow from these. That old wise souls like Michael Leunig and Susan Alberti are in agreement says much.
Have you read the bill? Or at least the explanatory statement?
It largely transfers powers from a public servant to the Health Minister.


You can be against it, but calling it anti-democratic is just plain wrong. It's more democratic than the bill it replaces. Given how misinformation spreads (just see the rise of the anti-vaxxer movement today), misinformation needs to be called out.
 

footscray1973

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Reports this morning that the bill is going to pass. A bit like a Bulldogs flag, I didn't think I'd live to see communism introduced in Victoria, but now that it has been I can die happy. Thankyou glorious comrade Dan.

So the protestors are like Sydney supporters/umpiring conspiracy theorists?! :think:
 

Norm De Guerre

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Have you read the bill? Or at least the explanatory statement?
It largely transfers powers from a public servant to the Health Minister.


You can be against it, but calling it anti-democratic is just plain wrong. It's more democratic than the bill it replaces. Given how misinformation spreads (just see the rise of the anti-vaxxer movement today), misinformation needs to be called out.

What, the proposed legislation doesn't cancel elections and instil Bad Dan as Premier for life?

I think we can say for certain that if these changes aren't made the next talking point would be one of the undue influence that faceless unelected probably communist bureaucrats are having over the weak and ineffectual Bad Dan.

dan.jpg
 

Contador

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I think we can say for certain that if these changes aren't made the next talking point would be one of the undue influence that faceless unelected probably communist bureaucrats are having over the weak and ineffectual Bad Dan.

That was the argument a couple of months ago:

And even as a CHO, he isn’t who we voted in to govern. What if we outsourced that sort of responsibility to defence chiefs? They are there to give advice and governments to govern.
We elect a gov to govern, get advice from a variety of experts on any given topic, the government makes the call, not the expert, because their expertise is only ever in their narrow field. Eg there are child health experts that believe lockdown causes more harm than good. Giving one man, a so-called expert in one narrow field, governmental type power is stupid.
 

Freshwater

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Have you read the bill? Or at least the explanatory statement?
It largely transfers powers from a public servant to the Health Minister.


You can be against it, but calling it anti-democratic is just plain wrong. It's more democratic than the bill it replaces. Given how misinformation spreads (just see the rise of the anti-vaxxer movement today), misinformation needs to be called out.
I don’t believe this to be so. It concentrates power into one man and government. A government doesn’t have to go through the upper house to have a ‘state of emergency’ ‘pandemic’ enacted. The barrister on the radio this morning more eloquent than I outlined such flaws in the new bill which he says is better than originally tabled but not overseen by independent committee or even upper house.
That was the argument a couple of months ago:
That is right, governments are there to govern but within the bounds of law. What this bill aims to achieve is to get around a ‘state of emergency’ having to go through parliament to be enacted. A State of emergency is where normal laws are suspended for a short period of time to counter the emergency. But this has been going on nearly 2 years!
 

The Buck

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But this has been going on nearly 2 years!

Because the rapidly mutating virus has been going on for two years. Why do you think Morrison has called a closing of borders due to the omicron variant presenting a new challenge?

Is it genuinely your case that Andrews is deliberately using this bill in order to potentially seize state power and create a dictatorship?

Further, could you be wrong in your views, and would you be willing to concede that you are?
 

footscray1973

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Yawn. Doubling down, going round in circles, clutching at straws - take your pick.

The alternative to not having lockdowns without vaccines over the past 2 years would be even greater spread and infection, and deaths (not just of the vulnerable). Greater disruption to lives, schooling, jobs, businesses, society, economy. It's hard to run a business, or protest - IF YOU'RE DEAD.

None of those seem to be a concern though. Madness, just madness.
 

Draft Pick

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Yawn. Doubling down, going round in circles, clutching at straws - take your pick.

The alternative to not having lockdowns without vaccines over the past 2 years would be even greater spread and infection, and deaths (not just of the vulnerable). Greater disruption to lives, schooling, jobs, businesses, society, economy. It's hard to run a business, or protest - IF YOU'RE DEAD.

None of those seem to be a concern though. Madness, just madness.
Correct. Are people who are blasé about Covid, aware of the number of Health Care professionals who have died from it ? The WHO estimate around 115,000 professionals have died since the pandemic began.

WHO says 'at least' 115,000 health workers have now died from Covid-19 | Nursing Times


I believe the nurse who died on the weekend was the first such professional to die in Victoria from COVID.

I feel for small business owners who in some cases have lost everything as a result of the pandemic, but I get frustrated at people like Susan Alberti who can only really see it from the point of view of business, and our mate on this forum who only thinks it is about 'Freedoms'.
 
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Freshwater

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Because the rapidly mutating virus has been going on for two years. Why do you think Morrison has called a closing of borders due to the omicron variant presenting a new challenge?

Is it genuinely your case that Andrews is deliberately using this bill in order to potentially seize state power and create a dictatorship?

Further, could you be wrong in your views, and would you be willing to concede that you are?
I believe Morrison is nearly as dreadful as Andrews. And I could well be wrong. But I have absolutely no faith in someone who was willing to lockdown his constituents more than any other leader, not just in the western world but the whole world. I have never been anti vax and every single text I read that suggests that just shows no nuance what so ever in this debate. But I will happy call myself anti-lockdown. So why I have been against this bill because I believe it will be used for more lockdown and state border closures, which is causing more harm than good.
 

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The Buck

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I believe Morrison is nearly as dreadful as Andrews. And I could well be wrong. But I have absolutely no faith in someone who was willing to lockdown his constituents more than any other leader, not just in the western world but the whole world. I have never been anti vax and every single text I read that suggests that just shows no nuance what so ever in this debate. But I will happy call myself anti-lockdown. So why I have been against this bill because I believe it will be used for more lockdown and state border closures, which is causing more harm than good.

Two points:

1.

How does Victoria’s new legislation compare with NSW?


VictoriaNSW
Declaring a pandemicPandemic specific legislation, requiring a pandemic to be declared by the Premier, before the health minister issues public health orders.The health minister can issue public health orders without a state of emergency, provided reasonable grounds there is a risk to public health.
Human rightsAny public health orders must adhere to the State’s human rights charter, adding protection against heavy-handed enforcement, fines and curfews.Does not have a charter of human rights.
Ombudsman powersOmbudsman has powers to investigate complaints.Ombudsman does not have specific jurisdiction.
DurationPandemic declaration initially runs for four weeks, with unlimited three month extensions after that.No time limit.

Are you as indignant about Perrotet and the NSW government as you are about Andrews, whom you seem to demonise as the repository of all evil?

2. Once again, is it all possible that you could be wrong in pursuing an anti-lockdown position under any circumstances, knowing that the health system and its overworked staff bear the brunt of continuing infections? Have you noticed what's happening in Europe with many countries going back into lockdowns because of a stubborn minority of citizens remaining unvaccinated?
 
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BrisDog

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Never believe that anti-vaxer are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.
The anti-vaxers have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past
 

LittleG

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Nov 18, 2015
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You can now be in-prisoned for up to 51 weeks in the UK for protesting. All you have to do is lock yourself to something or disrupt transportation…. OR you could be in an area where they suspect will be a protest and refuse to be searched.
There are lots more ways to get locked up in the soon to be police state of UK.

Now that law is a good reason to protest and take to the streets against.
 

Freshwater

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Two points:

1.

How does Victoria’s new legislation compare with NSW?


VictoriaNSW
Declaring a pandemicPandemic specific legislation, requiring a pandemic to be declared by the Premier, before the health minister issues public health orders.The health minister can issue public health orders without a state of emergency, provided reasonable grounds there is a risk to public health.
Human rightsAny public health orders must adhere to the State’s human rights charter, adding protection against heavy-handed enforcement, fines and curfews.Does not have a charter of human rights.
Ombudsman powersOmbudsman has powers to investigate complaints.Ombudsman does not have specific jurisdiction.
DurationPandemic declaration initially runs for four weeks, with unlimited three month extensions after that.No time limit.

Are you as indignant about Perrotet and the NSW government as you are about Andrews, whom you seem to demonise as the repository of all evil?

2. Once again, is it all possible that you could be wrong in pursuing an anti-lockdown position under any circumstances, knowing that the health system and its overworked staff bear the brunt of continuing infections? Have you noticed what's happening in Europe with many countries going back into lockdowns because of a stubborn minority of citizens remaining unvaccinated?
I have said many times, I couldn’t care less about NSW’s legislation unless it affects us here in Vic. If theirs is good or bad I don’t know, I couldn’t even be bothered with it. But I do know their lockdown compared to our was much much less so I would be less worried if I lived up there.
 

ScragCity

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Sep 7, 2015
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Australia's transformation into authoritarianism isn't happening through pandemic management. Its happening by increasing the capacity for law enforcement to spy on Australian citizens; the erosion of free speech and free press; the erosion of privacy through things like anti-encryption laws; and the lack of means by which the Australian people can stop, prevent or even know the extent of corruption occurring in politics. Myopic dipshits are focused on pandemic stuff because it is what is on their televisions and Facebook feeds, without realising the creep towards authoritarianism has been occurring under their noses for decades. This is being done by creating bogeymen: "We need these extra powers to protect you/your children from terrorists, paedophiles, China etc." The threat of X is very real and you should be WORRIED. But you can trust US to protect you." Authoritarianism doesn't occur by Dictator Dan declaring that the world is now in a perpetual pandemic and locking everyone in their homes. That would be too heavy-handed, obvious and counter-productive. The elite benefit from a functioning economy and they need us to be able to go to work. How do you boil a frog alive?
 
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Mofra

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Australia's transformation into authoritarianism isn't happening through pandemic management. Its happening by increasing the capacity for law enforcement to spy on Australian citizens; the erosion of free speech and free press; the erosion of privacy through things like anti-encryption laws; and the lack of means by which the Australian people can stop, prevent or even know the extent of corruption occurring in politics. Myopic dipshits are focused on pandemic stuff because it is what is on their televisions and Facebook feeds, without realising the creep towards authoritarianism has been occurring under their noses for decades. This is being done by creating bogeymen: "We need these extra powers to protect you/your children from terrorists, paedophiles, China etc." The threat of X is very real and you should be WORRIED. But you can trust US to protect you. Authoritarianism doesn't occur by Dictator Dan declaring that the world is now in a perpetual pandemic and locking everyone in their homes. That would be too heavy-handed, obvious and counter-productive. The elite benefit from a functioning economy and they need us to be able to go to work. How do you boil a frog alive?
It's Federal legislation passed in the previous few years that people should be concerned with.
Not a peep from the 'freedaaahm' screamers.
 

dogwatch

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Australia's transformation into authoritarianism isn't happening through pandemic management. Its happening by increasing the capacity for law enforcement to spy on Australian citizens; the erosion of free speech and free press; the erosion of privacy through things like anti-encryption laws; and the lack of means by which the Australian people can stop, prevent or even know the extent of corruption occurring in politics. Myopic dipshits are focused on pandemic stuff because it is what is on their televisions and Facebook feeds, without realising the creep towards authoritarianism has been occurring under their noses for decades. This is being done by creating bogeymen: "We need these extra powers to protect you/your children from terrorists, paedophiles, China etc." The threat of X is very real and you should be WORRIED. But you can trust US to protect you." Authoritarianism doesn't occur by Dictator Dan declaring that the world is now in a perpetual pandemic and locking everyone in their homes. That would be too heavy-handed, obvious and counter-productive. The elite benefit from a functioning economy and they need us to be able to go to work. How do you boil a frog alive?
Such a good post that I read it twice.
Spot on.
It’s important to understand what is going on with people like Freshwater but this thread has become over-obsessed with it. The threats are elsewhere.
 
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LittleG

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It's Federal legislation passed in the previous few years that people should be concerned with.
Not a peep from the 'freedaaahm' screamers.

But a Conservative government would never strip their citizens of any of their rights.
 

footscray1973

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I suspect if someone walked around outside Parliament House in Canberra with a home-made gibbet and threatening el Marketing Supremo, they'd be arrested pronto, and reviled in the conservative press as a left-wing violent extremist. And any non-conservative politician who failed to denounce them outright then be trumpeted as supporting violent extremism.
Meanwhile another federal minister has just been outed as sexually, emotionally and physically abusing a staff member he was in a 'relationship' with. How great are the politicians we're lumbered with atm? What a day to be an Australian voter!
(Not strictly COVID, but I'm ****ing p1ssed off with the lecherous ar5e-wipes that seem to inhabit the corridors of elected power in this country, sorry.)
 

Norm De Guerre

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I suspect if someone walked around outside Parliament House in Canberra with a home-made gibbet and threatening el Marketing Supremo, they'd be arrested pronto, and reviled in the conservative press as a left-wing violent extremist. And any non-conservative politician who failed to denounce them outright then be trumpeted as supporting violent extremism.
Meanwhile another federal minister has just been outed as sexually, emotionally and physically abusing a staff member he was in a 'relationship' with. How great are the politicians we're lumbered with atm? What a day to be an Australian voter!
(Not strictly COVID, but I'm ****ing p1ssed off with the lecherous ar5e-wipes that seem to inhabit the corridors of elected power in this country, sorry.)

"The government you elect is the government you deserve." - Thomas Jefferson.
 

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