Coronavirus/COVID-19

[BEaston]

Freshwaters faux layers are starting to peel back.

Been laid bare for a year at least.

 

[D Mitchell]

I will take your point of order that I mentioned comments in the Senate towards Gillard that were made in the House. You wish to ignore what was said to Sarah Hansen-Young (I think that was her name) and Bob Brown, etc.

Now, how about you come to terms with the fact the quote never mentioned an autistic child. It’s quite poor that people add words to make things more offensive. I would have thought calling someone a **** or xxxxxx or a campaigner or combining them would easily be far worse than this quote.

That depends upon what you mean by "the quote" If you mean the Press quote of what Thorp is supposed to have said, fair enough. If Freshwater's right, I maintain my rage. If he's not, then she's no better than the English slips cordon (if that's too obscure, it's a reference to a quip by Geoff Boycott about a 4 through slips between the legs of 2nd slip).

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Read this link and tell me that this brouhaha is any more than the usual low-brow point scoring from both sides of the isle that we have sadly become accustomed from our representatives in Canberra. Look for the subtle differences between what the two Liberal senators reported they heard and what Thorp claims she saw and you'll see where it goes from the idiots school ground to the point scoring political arena.

Hardly the stuff deserving of the confected outrage above.

https://www.news.com.au/national/po...e/news-story/0c9d7e078ab0cd95a2b266b06953a4f0

 

[LittleG]

That depends upon what you mean by "the quote" If you mean the Press quote of what Thorp is supposed to have said, fair enough. If Freshwater's right, I maintain my rage. If he's not, then she's no better than the English slips cordon (if that's too obscure, it's a reference to a quip by Geoff Boycott about a 4 through slips between the legs of 2nd slip).

No mention of autistic child until way after the initial quote made headlines. I am sure that IF it has been part of the initial then things would have blown up about it then.

 

[D Mitchell]

No mention of autistic child until way after the initial quote made headlines. I am sure that IF it has been part of the initial then things would have blown up about it then.

Lucky Thorp, then ? I want to believe the "autistic baby" thing. Is it admiration for the sturdy independence of Freshwater or (justifiable ?) contempt of the Greens ? That's a rhetorical, no need for a vitriolic response.

 

[D Mitchell]

What happened to the “ look what they do , not what they say “ mantra ?
Gee that pearl of wisdom has aged well

The "do, not say" mantra is solid. When you deal with Greens, well, they say plenty but do nothing. Boy, do you owe me a few beers.

 

[dogwatch]

Early South African research suggests that Omicron is the most easily transmitted strain yet.

 

[ScragCity]

Early South African research suggests that Omicron is the most easily transmitted strain yet.

Can we keep the COVID discussion away from the political shitfights thread?

 

[LittleG]

Early South African research suggests that Omicron is the most easily transmitted strain yet.

It appears that way. It wouldn’t be able to dominate the Delta variant IF it wasn’t.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Can we keep the COVID discussion away from the political shitfights thread?

We really need to talk about when Dan should start locking down the state again.

We need to think of the children...

 

[King Harold]

Been laid bare for a year at least.

I have tried really hard to understand and even have sympathy for fresh waters position over the debate , but my respect has been severely dented.
His refusal to answer the most fundamental question in regard to COVID response and shutdowns tells you a lot about
his politics.

As far as he is concerned we all have a god given right to do whatever we like regardless if we carry COVID , plague , leprosy or any other transmittal diseases ?

Sadly it appears the only thing we have in common is we are long time Bulldog tragic‘s !

 

[King Harold]

The "do, not say" mantra is solid. When you deal with Greens, well, they say plenty but do nothing. Boy, do you owe me a few beers.

“ you owe me a few beers “ I was of the belief you will be paying ?
Surely your fee for defending fresh is an ongoing cash ?

 

[D Mitchell]

“ you owe me a few beers “ I was of the belief you will be paying ?
Surely your fee for defending fresh is an ongoing cash ?

Pro bono

 

[Mutt]

Stop the personal attacks. Last warning. I'm all for robust discussion but I won't and shouldn't tolerate playing the man/woman.

I'm trying hard to avoid over-moderating but I'm not going to be a bystander if the personal vilification and criticisms continue.

 

[wayniac]

Unvaccinated public servants are being given "show cause" letters which is the beginning of the process to terminate them if they won't comply with the CHO directives. Some have already been terminated or have resigned. The small number who are unvaccinated will need to do so pretty much immediately.

I'm sure you can discern the difference in treatment. Perhaps you can come up with some numbers and the $$ difference in income lost between public servants and contractors as a result of losing their jobs. After all time is money.

 

[Mutt]

I'm sure you can discern the difference in treatment. Perhaps you can come up with some numbers and the $$ difference in income lost between public servants and contractors as a result of losing their jobs. After all time is money.

So the protests are largely about the treatment of public servants? The public servants that have or are just about to lose their jobs? The public servants that have employment rights that you would trample on in the rush to sack them more quickly than their EBA allows?

 

[The Buck]

Stop the personal attacks. Last warning. I'm all for robust discussion but I won't and shouldn't tolerate playing the man/woman.

I'm trying hard to avoid over-moderating but I'm not going to be a bystander if the personal vilification and criticisms continue.

Fair enough Mutt. I've deleted a post but must admit it's hard to ignore some of the quite ludicrous posts on this topic.

 

[wayniac]

So the protests are largely about the treatment of public servants? The public servants that have or are just about to lose their jobs? The public servants that have employment rights that you would trample on in the rush to sack them more quickly than their EBA allows?

Last time I looked vaccine mandates weren't in any EBA. So how on earth you can deflect my question about numbers is hardly relevant. I'm talking about fair and equal treatment of public servants versus private contractors. There are public servants who get moved around because the EBAs you talk about protect useless people. There are countless examples in Canberra who have got away with harassment and have not been summarily dismissed, but moved on to another department. Are you a public servant, have friends/relatives who are public servants? I ask because we are at a tipping point where so many people are employed in these sectors that it's hard to get fair appraisal because of these familial connections.

 

[Mutt]

Last time I looked vaccine mandates weren't in any EBA. So how on earth you can deflect my question about numbers is hardly relevant. I'm talking about fair and equal treatment of public servants versus private contractors. There are public servants who get moved around because the EBAs you talk about protect useless people. There are countless examples in Canberra who have got away with harassment and have not been summarily dismissed, but moved on to another department. Are you a public servant, have friends/relatives who are public servants? I ask because we are at a tipping point where so many people are employed in these sectors that it's hard to get fair appraisal because of these familial connections.

The employment conditions of public servants afford them certain rights when their employer wishes to dismiss them - they cannot be summarily dismissed with no justification. The show-cause process gives them the right to show cause why they shouldn't be dismissed. Many, many private-sector employment agreements, employment contracts and EBA's have exactly the same protections. It's not a public sector thing - it's an ongoing employment thing. Contractors in some cases might have similar engagement conditions...the fact they don't is not because public servants get favourable treatment. It's because their respective employers are abiding by their contractual and employer obligations according to a legally binding process that all parties have agreed. Just the same as for contractors - both parties have legal rights and obligations.

I've worked for more of my career in the private sector than I have in the public sector and I can tell you that, in my experience, private-sector employees and contractors are paid more, often significantly more, than are public servants for equivalent work. The trade-off is that public servants enjoy more job security and a greater potential pool of positions and career opportunities without leaving their employer. They don't have a job for life or unconditional never-ending employment though...and that's what you are seeing playing out right now...the public servants having to show their employer that they will obey a lawful directive of the CHO or else they will be dismissed.

Say what you will about "useless people" that are employed as public servants (and there are plenty of very poor private sector employees too) that is entirely missing the point of the protests. There are not people marching and protesting demanding that "useless people" be sacked from the public service. You are hijacking what the protests are primarily about and trying to suggest that it is really about public servants.

You ask me whether I or family members are public servants. Like the majority of people in this country, I answer yes - I or family members of mine are public servants. Somehow you being a contractor does not invalidate your argument but someone in my family being a public servant invalidates my argument? Wow.

Perhaps you should look to change your employment situation if you can, rather than be bitter towards the public servants that help to keep this country running. Our society wouldn't exist without the public service - all western democracies have a public service to do those things that the private sector can't, won't or shouldn't do.

Finally...I believe that the protests were largely about people being sick of the government exercising a lot of control over their lives and some people are questioning whether that level of control has been excessive. I sympathise to some extent, as my wife lost her employment because of the pandemic and the government responses to it. The pandemic has cost us tens of thousands of dollars each of the past two years. I'm not taking my frustration out by vilifying others who have been more fortunate though...and in my opinion, neither should you.

 

[King Harold]

Pro bono

Yeah don’t mind a bit of U2 now and end.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

This public servant tangent is bizarre.

 

[Freshwater]

Hahaha - seriously. Defended?! Where? Deflected? Try "compared". Do you have knowledge of EVERY insult ever made in the Senate?

I was going to write something similar to what The Buck wrote, but thought I'd give you one final benefit of the doubt. You are, and have been all along, posting along completely partisan lines. Not a surprise really. Explains pretty much all your posting.

I wrote off both sides, i reckon they are all toxic now, power has gone to their heads in this era. Everyone from the Greens to the Nationals. Then Scrag asked me “what have the greens done” and I answered.

 

[Freshwater]

I don't think women should be shamed about their sexuality but its hardly the most disgusting thing ever. In fact, it only becomes disgusting when you add your own inference to it. The quote itself was pretty tame. But if you add your own context and inferences then you can make any comment seem abhorrent.

The actual quote, as reported, was: "At least I keep my legs shut."

Let's apply a bit of critical thinking to deduce the context here. If she were referencing having children that would make no sense at all because she does, in fact, have three children of her own. If you actually do a bit of reading you'll see that Thorpe's comment was followed by this: “I’m happy to retract, Mr President. I just got a view of something over there that disturbed me. But I’m happy to retract.” The only way I can interpret this was that Hughes literally had her legs open and was exposing herself to members of the senate. That is actually a serious crime if true. But as you conservatives love to do you, you misquote, make inferences and invent false context so that you can play the victim and be indignant. You're happy to take the side of a sex offender if they inhabit the same side of politics as you. That's the most disgusting thing I've seen on this forum.

I was answering your question “what have the Greens done?” When I was agreeing with 1973 that politics is at an all time low in Australia. I can’t think of one decent politician? But my answer was just to do with the Greens in that instance because that is what you asked. What Ratman did in siding with Labor I feel is allowing a megalomaniac to lockdown his constituents and cause more pain than the side-called benefits he tries to achieve. And what Thorpe said in the Senate was disgusting and I know there has been some terrible things said but I can’t think of a worse thing to say. So again, I don’t get the push back, I at least, am happy to criticise all politicians at the moment, because they are ALL sellouts to their narrow agendas. And any that promise no more lockdowns will get my vote.

 

[LittleG]

I was answering your question “what have the Greens done?” When I was agreeing with 1973 that politics is at an all time low in Australia. I can’t think of one decent politician? But my answer was just to do with the Greens in that instance because that is what you asked. What Ratman did in siding with Labor I feel is allowing a megalomaniac to lockdown his constituents and cause more pain than the side-called benefits he tries to achieve. And what Thorpe said in the Senate was disgusting and I know there has been some terrible things said but I can’t think of a worse thing to say. So again, I don’t get the push back, I at least, am happy to criticise all politicians at the moment, because they are ALL sellouts to their narrow agendas. And any that promise no more lockdowns will get my vote.

I quite like Adam Bandt as an individual (talked to him many times) but really dislike many of the policies he has to push as the leader of the Greens. Representing his diverse constituency and party, have meant he has to keep some of his views to himself. I would certainly prefer IF he ran as an independent and put forward his views…. Then he would be vote worthy.

Mad Catter is looking like a good choice for me at the next election. Rather Catter than obviously corrupt.

 

[LittleG]

This new Omicron variant has been reported as having very mixed symptoms. Some say:
More contagious
Bypasses vaccine immunity and thus kills anyone
Milder symptoms

Now those are anecdotal observations of front line medical staff in South Africa. I do wonder what scientists will say about it.


I don’t think we are going back into lockdowns. With the new legislation, Dan instead of the CHO gets to decide on lockdowns…. I HOPE Dan is as sick of lockdowns as many of us are.