Coronavirus/COVID-19

[Freshwater]

Those dirty dog governments , fancy trying to protect people’s health and possibly their lives !
Bloody Pricks !

Why do they need more government help than anyone else any other group of people? This is paternalism of the worst kind. It doesn’t help anyone. It is humiliating and disrespectful. It is not government’s job to ‘help’ people. It is their job to see that people are free to live their own lives within the limits of just laws. Our creep towards statism is nearly complete, and some see this as a good thing. It has never worked and won’t ever again.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Why do they need more government help than anyone else any other group of people? This is paternalism of the worst kind. It doesn’t help anyone. It is humiliating and disrespectful. It is not government’s job to ‘help’ people. It is their job to see that people are free to live their own lives within the limits of just laws. Our creep towards statism is nearly complete, and some see this as a good thing. It has never worked and won’t ever again.

So you think indigenous communities should be allowed to receive and believe antivax information spreaders without any government “interference”? Just let them get Covid and die, because we “respect” their right to live their own lives and have no right to try to convince them otherwise?

 

[King Harold]

Why do they need more government help than anyone else any other group of people? This is paternalism of the worst kind. It doesn’t help anyone. It is humiliating and disrespectful. It is not government’s job to ‘help’ people. It is their job to see that people are free to live their own lives within the limits of just laws. Our creep towards statism is nearly complete, and some see this as a good thing. It has never worked and won’t ever again.

I went back and read your post again just in case I miss read something.
So you are arguing sending medical care out to , I assume remote populations ,in an attempt to help them fight an epidemic that will most likely kill some of them is treating them like “ babies “ ?

I have tried to stay out of this debate these last few months , but there are some head scratcher posting going on around here.

I thought 1066 was bad !

 

[King Harold]

I spent 3 months in a Fairfield hospital dorm as a kid.( mid sixties )
One young guy in that dorm spent all his days in an iron lung , he was a polio victim.
I am very glad my parents decided their kids should get the polio shot.

Not sure it would have crossed their mind their civil liberties were even a consideration when signing the consent form.

Us humans are a herd animal, we abide by hundreds of rules in the hope we make society work.

 

[ScragCity]

So you think indigenous communities should be allowed to receive and believe antivax information spreaders without any government “interference”? Just let them get Covid and die, because we “respect” their right to live their own lives and have no right to try to convince them otherwise?

They should be free to believe whatever they choose. It's not the government's role to tell people what information they are allowed to be exposed to. The government should and does provide accurate information abount the virus and vaccines. If people choose not to believe what the government and genuine authorities are saying in favour of conspiracy s**t then that's up to them. No one wants to live in a world in which the government "protects" us from our own thoughts and beliefs. Can you not imagine what that would lead to?

 

[King Harold]

They should be free to believe whatever they choose. It's not the government's role to tell people what information they are allowed to be exposed to. The government should and does provide accurate information abount the virus and vaccines. If people choose not to believe what the government and genuine authorities are saying in favour of conspiracy sh*t then that's up to them. No one wants to live in a world in which the government "protects" us from our own thoughts and beliefs. Can you not imagine what that would lead to?

How is this even relevant Scrag ?
Everyone can believe what they wish .Who said they can’t ?
The government are giving remote communities access to vaccination if they so choose.
I assume they don’t tie them down and inject them against their will ?

Because the grand Pooh Bah of that community is a Sky News fan ,and not a believer in the “ government science”
Does not mean the rest of the clan should have the option ?

 

[ScragCity]

How is this even relevant Scrag ?
Everyone can believe what they wish .Who said they can’t ?
The government are giving remote communities access to vaccination if they so choose.
I assume they don’t tie them down and inject them against their will ?

Because the grand Pooh Bah of that community is a Sky News fan ,and not a believer in the “ government science”
Does not mean the rest of the clan should have the option ?

Sorry, I misunderstood what we were talking about. I think its great if the Government are giving aboriginal communities easy access to vaccines. Not sure how that could even be up for debate. There's nothing patronising about doing so. I've never felt patronised receiving free healthcare and government services when I've needed them. Just grateful to not be dead.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

How is this even relevant Scrag ?
Everyone can believe what they wish .Who said they can’t ?
The government are giving remote communities access to vaccination if they so choose.
I assume they don’t tie them down and inject them against their will ?

Because the grand Pooh Bah of that community is a Sky News fan ,and not a believer in the “ government science”
Does not mean the rest of the clan should have the option ?

Sorry, what?

 

[King Harold]

Sorry, what?

Sorry DR , the Science the government offers as to why we all should be vaccinated .

 

[Freshwater]

I went back and read your post again just in case I miss read something.
So you are arguing sending medical care out to , I assume remote populations ,in an attempt to help them fight an epidemic that will most likely kill some of them is treating them like “ babies “ ?

I have tried to stay out of this debate these last few months , but there are some head scratcher posting going on around here.

I thought 1066 was bad !

No more or less than any other remote communities. It is the racism of low expectations that I have zero tolerance for. Not only is it disrespectful and humiliating it’s judgemental and ultimately hurtful

 

[Freshwater]

So you think indigenous communities should be allowed to receive and believe antivax information spreaders without any government “interference”? Just let them get Covid and die, because we “respect” their right to live their own lives and have no right to try to convince them otherwise?

You received anti vax information, are they dumber than you? This sounds paternalistic.

 

[King Harold]

No more or less than any other remote communities. It is the racism of low expectations that I have zero tolerance for. Not only is it disrespectful and humiliating it’s judgemental and ultimately hurtful

As a principle I don’t disagree with you Fresh.
but your argument is philosophy versus losing lives amongst communities that don’t enjoy the everyday access to health care most of us do.
I prefer the government do all it can to preserve their health and lives.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Why do they need more government help than anyone else any other group of people? This is paternalism of the worst kind. It doesn’t help anyone. It is humiliating and disrespectful. It is not government’s job to ‘help’ people. It is their job to see that people are free to live their own lives within the limits of just laws. Our creep towards statism is nearly complete, and some see this as a good thing. It has never worked and won’t ever again.

To be fair it's also the job of governments (state in particular) to protect our health system so people who have heart attacks, strokes, car accidents can actually get an ICU bed.

Sadly we have a lot of people in our community who are selfish, couldn't give a toss about others and don't care about putting themselves (and more importantly, others) at risk.

Do governments overreach? Yes. But if governments didn't intervene, we would still have thousands and thousands of people driving around completely tanked and without seatbelts.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

So the consensus from all of you is that antivaxers are entitled to deliberately target indigenous communities because it’s up to the Aborigines themselves to examine “the science” and decide what path to follow. Because, paternalistic, disrespectful, racist, to “presume” they need protection.
Even though they were identified early in the vax campaign as a vulnerable group, to be given priority for vaccination. Outrageous.
Now that I am “woke up” I see the following page for what it is - disrespectful, humiliating, condescending, patronising:

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/indigenous

How dare the government treat Aborigines any differently to other citizens, it’s a disgrace.
Am I doing this rite?

 

[dogwatch]

So the consensus from all of you is that antivaxers are entitled to deliberately target indigenous communities because it’s up to the Aborigines themselves to examine “the science” and decide what path to follow. Because, paternalistic, disrespectful, racist, to “presume” they need protection.
Even though they were identified early in the vax campaign as a vulnerable group, to be given priority for vaccination. Outrageous.
Now that I am “woke up” I see the following page for what it is - disrespectful, humiliating, condescending, patronising:

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/indigenous

How dare the government treat Aborigines any differently to other citizens, it’s a disgrace.
Am I doing this rite?

Does anyone know what the views of the indigenous community are on all of this? And perhaps how it relates to "closing the gap"?

That should be our first port of call.

 

[King Harold]

Does anyone know what the views of the indigenous community are on all of this? And perhaps how it relates to "closing the gap"?

That should be our first port of call.

But these communities are made up of individuals including children .
As I have said , you don’t want some Grand Pooh Bah deciding on behalf of everybody.

 

[wayniac]

Give them aspirin:

Aspirin lowers risk of COVID: New findings support preliminary Israeli trial

The treatment reduced the risk of reaching mechanical ventilation by 44%. ICU admissions were lower by 43%, and an overall in-hospital mortality saw a 47% decrease.

www.jpost.com

 

[D Mitchell]

But these communities are made up of individuals including children .
As I have said , you don’t want some Grand Pooh Bah deciding on behalf of everybody.

Ah, g'day your majesty. Welcome back, Donald and I have missed you.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I’m talking about Covid and the vaccination, that’s all. In point of fact they are not the only ones affected by scaremongering by antivaxers; that article by Waleed Aly’s surgeon brother the other day has identified other groups that are disproportionately swayed by misinformation.

 

[King Harold]

Ah, g'day your majesty. Welcome back, Donald and I have missed you.

Dont be concerned good Sir , following and deciphering your posts have now become a hobby for me

And remember , “ look at what Donald does not what he says “
You may want to re- visit that little pearl of wisdom ?

 

[ScragCity]

Received my second dose today. A bit of a burning sensation in my urethra but other than that I feel fine.

 

[D Mitchell]

Dont be concerned good Sir , following and deciphering your posts have now become a hobby for me

And remember , “ look at what Donald does not what he says “
You may want to re- visit that little pearl of wisdom ?

Ah, the light went out in me following your disappearance. I stand by it, absolutely. It's trite, judge everyone by that pearl. Old Donald, he shook up the world, didn't he. I hope you've been OK, though. 2021 has been a disaster, maybe 2022 you can buy me that beer in the Exchange after a Game, we could talk about Nuclear powered Subs and how Good Sam Darcy is going to be.

 

[Freshwater]

I’m talking about Covid and the vaccination, that’s all. In point of fact they are not the only ones affected by scaremongering by antivaxers; that article by Waleed Aly’s surgeon brother the other day has identified other groups that are disproportionately swayed by misinformation.

They are not necessarily dissuaded by misinformation if you can call this misinformation. A Muslim man was interviewed recently and was asked why he didn’t want to get vaxxed? His answer was “Allah knows how long I am to live, a vax doesn’t change this”. This is not definitely the Muslim attitude and there are many Christians, Hindu, and Buddhists with similar beliefs. This belief system is stronger than the ‘scientific’ belief system for them. And it generally serves them well in other areas of life. But we just have to make sure we don’t feel high and mighty to think we wouldn’t fall for such unscientific nonsense. Most of our ‘beliefs’ are tribal or emotional or cultural and we then often use the ‘science’ that then supports that belief. This is why most of my criticism in this time is of people, but mostly our governments, trying force these ‘beliefs’ on others. I got the vax first weekend I could months ago, but I couldn’t care less if others did or did not. They have lived lives long enough to know their own story way more than I could ever imagine. So what makes me so smart or grand to think I know better for them?

 

[King Harold]

Ah, the light went out in me following your disappearance. I stand by it, absolutely. It's trite, judge everyone by that pearl. Old Donald, he shook up the world, didn't he. I hope you've been OK, though. 2021 has been a disaster, maybe 2022 you can buy me that beer in the Exchange after a Game, we could talk about Nuclear powered Subs and how Good Sam Darcy is going to be.

I might have to do that ,
Your the type of bloke I need to see in the flesh —— can’t work out if you are an eccentric well educated intellect or a bloody raving lunatic

Kinda hoping you are the latter

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Preventative medicine is not based on “beliefs”. Dr Aly, a Muslim, is not saying “Yes, he died, but at least he stuck to his beliefs.” He is frantic that his hospital ICU is FULL of unvaccinated members of his community, due to vaccine fear or resistance. Should he care or, as a Muslim, just accept sickness and deaths that are preventable? Is this applicable to all diseases or just covid?