Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) 2020

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Keays2myBeamas said:
When there is disagreement amongst the experts, it reveals why it's not worth putting all your eggs in one expert's basket. It's good to hear what both Doherty, Heymann, Fraser, and others have to say.

Wrt to borders. Borders between some countries that are moving towards herd immunity are already opening up - there's no longer much point keeping them closed. (Air travel is different however, borders in Europe can open without air travel, as planes appear to be a fantastic way to spread a virus).

But of course, we are not a country moving towards herd immunity, or a country that can be reached in a car. Listening to some of the state premiers (Qld, SA and WA especially) they are not keen on opening borders to even NSW + VIC without an entire month of 0 active cases (and that won't happen for a long long while). So it seems the idea of welcoming tourists from Europe or America without a vaccine is entirely off the table. Probably the best we can hope for is that we will be stuck in a bubble with New Zealand, perhaps some Pacific Island nations, and perhaps South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

Even if we wait the 2-3 years it will take for the virus to burn through everywhere else in the world, it will still linger around for quite a while. Given we are left with a 100% susceptible population, there's not a lot of room for us to manoeuvre. We've backed ourselves into a corner by doing so well at controlling the virus. If there's no vaccine, we may be forced to exist in relative isolation for years.

I apologise if I'm mulling over stuff that's already been said, I'm just trying to get it straight in my head, as I have an immense vested interest in seeing borders open asap. That's how I see it - does anyone see it differently?
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Better than I could have said it.

My family to has a significant vested interest in borders reopening.

Hopefully Vietnam is also included in the Asian bubble. It has done better than most of the other countries you mentioned.
 
briztoon said:
Actually my wife and I were just discussing this, people don’t NEED to come here for education.

I may have mentioned once or twice my wife works in education, primarily research, but also teaches post grad students.

Approximately 50% percent of her students are international students. But she doesn’t see most of them in class, as most do their course via online, even though they are here in Australia.

For two semesters she teaches a course where a large number of her students are based in Singapore and do not come to Australia, as her university has a partnership with a Singaporean university.

Now while most of our universities don’t currently offer full online degrees, many could.

I’m not throwing those industries in the dumpster.

What I have mentioned has been discussed at many levels of government and businesses, because, until a vaccine is found, our society can’t go in to a full lockdown mode every time a cluster appears.

And that’s what is being discussed if the borders are opened, because how do we contain multiple outbreaks in an open, functioning society?

So open Australia up for Australians, or keep closing the nation for months on end every time infection numbers reach a tipping point?

Hopefully all those Australian tourist dollars that went overseas before the outbreak now get spent here.
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You should tell the Federal Government that, as international students seem to be at the top of their "open the boarders" priority pile. As Keays2myBeamas pointed out our success could eventually be our undoing, as once this virus gets loose in the broader community we will have no immunity. Do you really think people are not still coming and going from airports? 14 days quarantine for a virus that can stay hidden for 30 days or more? Oh and whilst true those travel dollars may stay here that's not exactly exports. It's just money moving around and adds in no way to our national income.
 

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Saucery said:
You should tell the Federal Government that, as international students seem to be at the top of their "open the boarders" priority pile. As Keays2myBeamas pointed out our success could eventually be our undoing, as once this virus gets loose in the broader community we will have no immunity. Do you really think people are not still coming and going from airports? 14 days quarantine for a virus that can stay hidden for 30 days or more? Oh and whilst true those travel dollars may stay here that's not exactly exports. It's just money moving around and adds in no way to our national income.
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We’re well aware of the discussions to allow foreign students in.

We’re also aware of that universities are exploring other avenues.

I know Australians are still arriving and going into mandatory quarantine.

I imagine there are a small number of high powered and high priority internationals still coming in.

I understand money staying here is not adding to our national income. But it’s better than a complete loss of income.

Saucery said:
Say no more.
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About what?

Half our family lives in Vietnam. Right now Grandma is watching her granddaughter grow up via Viber and daily videos.
 
briztoon said:
We’re well aware of the discussions to allow foreign students in.

We’re also aware of that universities are exploring other avenues.

I know Australians are still arriving and going into mandatory quarantine.

I imagine there are a small number of high powered and high priority internationals still coming in.

I understand money staying here is not adding to our national income. But it’s better than a complete loss of income.


About what?

Half our family lives in Vietnam. Right now Grandma is watching her granddaughter grow up via Viber and daily videos.
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It's not just Australians who are arriving, any people considered necessary are getting the green light. Though it's well documented that CV19 can remain dormant for more that 14 days. What we save from travelers staying at home is a minute fraction of what we gain from overseas.

You are conflicted personally, I get that. My wife is stuck in the middle of Jakarta and I wish to god she was in Vietnam, where the covid response has been exemplary. But she isn't and I don't let that cloud my appreciation of the situation.
 
Saucery said:
It's not just Australians who are arriving, any people considered necessary are getting the green light. Though it's well documented that CV19 can remain dormant for more that 14 days. What we save from travelers staying at home is a minute fraction of what we gain from overseas.

You are conflicted personally, I get that. My wife is stuck in the middle of Jakarta and I wish to god she was in Vietnam, where the covid response has been exemplary. But she isn't and I don't let that cloud my appreciation of the situation.
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We’re not conflicted at all.

Just because we have a personal reason for wanting the borders opened, doesn’t mean we want them opened asap, or that we’ll even travel if they do.

I’m not sure you’ve followed all my posts about my view of the situation.


Best wishes for you and your wife.
 
Saucery said:
Not really sure of the veracity of the websites you have quoted, never seen them before.

www.npr.org

13 USS Roosevelt Sailors Test Positive For COVID-19, Again

They had been thought to be cleared of the virus, which infected hundreds of crew members on the U.S. aircraft carrier in recent weeks. The sailors are receiving medical support on Naval Base Guam.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

www.forbes.com

13 Sailors On The USS Theodore Roosevelt Have Tested Positive For Covid-19 A Second Time

All the infected sailors have been removed from the ship and are in isolation in Guam, where the Roosevelt is docked.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

www.nbcnews.com

Some have tested positive for COVID-19 after recovering. What does that mean?

There is no conclusive evidence that people can become reinfected with COVID-19. But researchers are following thousands of patients to be sure.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Look all say they don't know. THEY DON'T KNOW. For me that's an issue until they do know.
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His article was based off a report from the Korean CDC. Here's the original:

https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030

The findings were as reported - even though they had numerous (285) cases of re-positivity, none were identified as transmitting the virus to any close contacts (790 close contacts were traced).
 
briztoon said:
I just keep remembering a past discussion about potential vaccine development for coronavirus.

We haven’t been able to find a vaccine for the common cold or previous coronavirus.
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PattyK's quote of Dr Doherty sums up my understanding of the coronavirus angle - we were close to getting one for SARS but funding dried up because it hadn't re-emerged after a decade. There's nothing special about the cold being a coronavirus that results in difficulty to vaccinate against - it's the fact that it mutates regularly and frequently, much like influenza.

SARS-Cov-1 vaccines were effective in animals, but there were concerns about side effects that were still under study.

MERS-CoV had some promising vaccine candidates as well.

See Section 5.3 from https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa234/5828933
 
briztoon said:
We’re not conflicted at all.

Just because we have a personal reason for wanting the borders opened, doesn’t mean we want them opened asap, or that we’ll even travel if they do.

I’m not sure you’ve followed all my posts about my view of the situation.


Best wishes for you and your wife.
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Yeah sorry I'm freaking out over this s**t, just found out my wife's neighbor has it.
 
Saucery said:
This article speaks to me of how the near future looks for all society, let alone AFL. Seems like full stadiums might not be possible for many years, or decades.

"The fastest vaccine ever developed was for mumps. It took four years."

"A chief concern is that coronaviruses do not tend to trigger long-lasting immunity."

"If the natural infection doesn’t give you that much immunity except when it’s a severe infection, what will a vaccine do?"

"Another serious concern is “antibody-induced enhancement” where the antibodies produced by a vaccine actually make future infections worse."

So, is the virus here to stay?

The simple answer is: yes.

How will we live with the virus?

People will have to adapt – and life will change. Heymann says we will have to get used to extensive monitoring for infections backed up by swift outbreak containment. People must play their part too, by maintaining hand washing, social distancing and avoiding gatherings, particularly in enclosed spaces.

David Heymann, who led the response of the World Health Organization (WHO) to the Sars epidemic.

www.theguardian.com

Why we might not get a coronavirus vaccine

Politicians have become more cautious about immunisation prospects. They are right to be
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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There will be crowds this year. I am not a sceptic and think everything we have done is warrented. But there is no way this goes on like it has for years. Amt suggestions otherwise are like those early predictions claiming Australia would have 600k deaths by september. Its either Australia's unique make up, a vaccine or COVID-19 remains a disease that our health care system can manage until a vaccine. No way are we sitting here in 2022 talking about the fact there are no crowds at the footy.
 
When we look at how America and even Britain have handled the virus, I'm pretty sure we have a damn good health system. Also our leaders of both parties worked together and left out the politics at the important early stages of it. Although not so much now perhaps.

Having dealt with several different hospitals and the ambulance systems a couple of times in the last 15 months, we were super impressed by the efficiency of both. They worked well together like a well oiled machine.

I see no reason why, if people still remain vigilent with hygiene and distancing, we wont see crowds at the footy. Common sense will see us back to pretty much normal again if those little observations are enforced by individuals....

We've come through it all very well.

Now just to get those bloody borders open! Grr!
 
MacMum said:
When we look at how America and even Britain have handled the virus, I'm pretty sure we have a damn good health system. Also our leaders of both parties worked together and left out the politics at the important early stages of it. Although not so much now perhaps.

Having dealt with several different hospitals and the ambulance systems a couple of times in the last 15 months, we were super impressed by the efficiency of both. They worked well together like a well oiled machine.

I see no reason why, if people still remain vigilent with hygiene and distancing, we wont see crowds at the footy. Common sense will see us back to pretty much normal again if those little observations are enforced by individuals....

We've come through it all very well.

Now just to get those bloody borders open! Grr!
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Vic and especially NSW still have high numbers of active cases.

D63D0B28-6572-4CB1-8CFF-5A255F9AB86E.jpeg
 

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Still not a lot when you look at the populations of those states. It could have been so much worse had we not had the great health system and good leadership at the start.

That's why it is still so important to not become complacent. The virus is going to be around for a long time or at least until they come up with a vaccine. We as a population have to learn to live carefully with it. Like we have with all the other virus's in the past.

We can't be locked up forever, we have to get the country moving again.
 
So here’s an interesting thought. Today QLD brought forward it’s stage 2 restrictions starting tomorrow. Within it there is mention of approval for COVIDSafe plans for arenas. Digging a bit deeper my reading of it is that it could be possible to have 20 people per area. I wonder if the club or AFL would pursue 20 people per section, or if it would be too much trouble to worry about.
Could it be slightly possible to get a crowd of 1500-2000 for round 2?????
 
joshhem said:
So here’s an interesting thought. Today QLD brought forward it’s stage 2 restrictions starting tomorrow. Within it there is mention of approval for COVIDSafe plans for arenas. Digging a bit deeper my reading of it is that it could be possible to have 20 people per area. I wonder if the club or AFL would pursue 20 people per section, or if it would be too much trouble to worry about.
Could it be slightly possible to get a crowd of 1500-2000 for round 2?????
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No, it wouldn't be possible.

There's no way they'd approve that.
 
BREAKING: Start planning your holiday! We’re opening Queensland for Queenslanders from noon tomorrow.

Queenslanders will be able to undertake unlimited travel, including overnight stays throughout the entire state, in a major easing of COVID-19 restrictions.

More locals will be allowed in cafés, restaurants, pubs and clubs, with an increase in the number of patrons from 10 to 20.

From noon on Friday, June 5, venues with more space will be allowed up to 20 people in each defined area if they follow an approved COVID Safe Industry Plan.

Well done, Queensland.

Our state’s outstanding response to the COVID-19 pandemic has allowed restrictions to be lifted ahead of a planned move to Stage Two originally scheduled for June 12.

More info: www.covid19.qld.gov.au

#COVID19 #qldjobs
 
I am sick of all this social distancing nonsense. I know it works but the govt act as if there are no alternatives.
Just enforce all spectators to wear masks and we will be sweet. Risk of catching it outdoors is 20 times less than indoors too.
We can have crowds next game.
UV light (as we have in Brisbane winters) also greatly decreases transmission.
Brisbane/Gold Coast can be hub for all AFL games ...
Then again we can just watch while the NRL implements similar plans then a month later just copy them.
 
Bags not sitting in the same row as the old mate who still head to the game even though he's sick because "it's just a cold", sweating sniffling and spluttering his way along a row to his middle seat, even if he has a mask on.

Or any of the people who live in the same house as those in that row.

Or any of the people who work with or catch public transport with or...
 
....and with hands that probably haven't had quite the hygeine program required, walking along touching seats to get to his, hand railing as he goes up the stairs etc.

Yeah, doesn't appeal.
 
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