Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) 2020

MacMum

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Daniel Andrews wont take the slightest bit of notice of that unless it suits HIM.....has already stated that unlikely to let us out on the 19th Oct due to the still existing risks. Yeah right. BS.

This bloke really does have the credentials for a dictator. He and his mate the Health bloke, Brett Sutton are loving the power they hold right now..

There are 5mil people in Melb, so even if 1mil are flouting the rules, 4mil of us are doing the right thing.

..and let me tell you, 4mil people have had enough. I seriously would love to break these restrictions but I can't afford the fines ..
 
Mar 13, 2013
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Daniel Andrews wont take the slightest bit of notice of that unless it suits HIM.....has already stated that unlikely to let us out on the 19th Oct due to the still existing risks. Yeah right. BS.

This bloke really does have the credentials for a dictator. He and his mate the Health bloke, Brett Sutton are loving the power they hold right now..

There are 5mil people in Melb, so even if 1mil are flouting the rules, 4mil of us are doing the right thing.

..and let me tell you, 4mil people have had enough. I seriously would love to break these restrictions but I can't afford the fines ..
he will have to as all the rest of the school kids go back 26th, we will be driving our daughter to school and picking her up and her school is a lot further away than 5km. So the 5km enforcement is no longer sustainable.
 
Oct 13, 2015
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Daniel Andrews wont take the slightest bit of notice of that unless it suits HIM.....has already stated that unlikely to let us out on the 19th Oct due to the still existing risks. Yeah right. BS.

This bloke really does have the credentials for a dictator. He and his mate the Health bloke, Brett Sutton are loving the power they hold right now..

There are 5mil people in Melb, so even if 1mil are flouting the rules, 4mil of us are doing the right thing.

..and let me tell you, 4mil people have had enough. I seriously would love to break these restrictions but I can't afford the fines ..

MacMum At this stage I’m not sure it’s about who isn’t doing the right thing. Sure there are quite a few not abiding but I’m far more worried that the Gov doesn’t think they can safely let us open up until less than 5 cases a week. I seriously doubt the gov wants to keep us closed down atm either.

The fact that they are though speaks to a total lack of confidence in their ability to contact trace, test and isolate cases, especially in high risk professions, even when daily cases are steady in the teens. The tail end of new cases now is at least partially due to outbreaks in health worker cases.

Imo there’s been far too much focus on who is/isn’t following rules and on enforcement and who was responsible for hiring the security guards for hotel quarantine, and not nearly enough on asking why Victoria’s contact tracing is seemingly so much less capable than NSW.
 
Mar 13, 2013
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MacMum At this stage I’m not sure it’s about who isn’t doing the right thing. Sure there are quite a few not abiding but I’m far more worried that the Gov doesn’t think they can safely let us open up until less than 5 cases a week. I seriously doubt the gov wants to keep us closed down atm either.

The fact that they are though speaks to a total lack of confidence in their ability to contact trace, test and isolate cases, especially in high risk professions, even when daily cases are steady in the teens. The tail end of new cases now is at least partially due to outbreaks in health worker cases.

Imo there’s been far too much focus on who is/isn’t following rules and on enforcement and who was responsible for hiring the security guards for hotel quarantine, and not nearly enough on asking why Victoria’s contact tracing is seemingly so much less capable than NSW.
I think the simple answer is numbers. It's a lot easier to contact trace when you've never gotten close to triple digits in a day (NSW, haven't checked this but I don't recall them ever getting that high) as opposed to getting up to close to 800 (again from memory) in a day and trying to work it downwards.
 
Oct 13, 2015
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I think the simple answer is numbers. It's a lot easier to contact trace when you've never gotten close to triple digits in a day (NSW, haven't checked this but I don't recall them ever getting that high) as opposed to getting up to close to 800 (again from memory) in a day and trying to work it downwards.

I’m not talking about triple figures daily - at that point I completely agree that it’s behind the point at which contact tracing is useful.

But there is clearly a lack of confidence at lower levels of daily cases - we have less than 200 active in Vic, and the 14 day average is less than 15. This is pretty illustrative of the diff between Nsw and Vic:



I’m not advocating lifting lockdown until it’s safe to do so or calling Andrews a dictator. I’m someone who votes left of centre. But I can’t have blind faith at the moment when no one has explained how Vic will be able to better handle the next set of cases once restrictions ease and avoid lockdown 3.
 
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Looking forward to the name of the person who lied in SA being made public given the standard set by the Courier Mail.
which would result in a public lynching ... so while they need to be dealt with by the police, public naming will only end badly
 
which would result in a public lynching ... so while they need to be dealt with by the police, public naming will only end badly
Oh I agree, but then I agreed last time around too. I just wouldn't want News Limited to be thought guilty of double standards.
 

BangyBangy

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Any Lawyers in the house want to have a look through this & give me a concise rundown?

Does it mean what I think it does & the federal government is trying to overrule the states on covid vaccination discrimination?

It is an election year next year I guess lol.

Irrespective of what legislation does or doesn't get passed. Makes sense that it be the same for all Australians one way or another.
 

lionraven

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Any Lawyers in the house want to have a look through this & give me a concise rundown?

Does it mean what I think it does & the federal government is trying to overrule the states on covid vaccination discrimination?

It is an election year next year I guess lol.

Irrespective of what legislation does or doesn't get passed. Makes sense that it be the same for all Australians one way or another.

Im not a lawyer. A brief google comes up with this: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/proposed-law-seeks-to-prohibit-covid-passports/

Seems its a Craig Kelly dogwhistle attempt to wedge LNP voters so he can claim more of the right wing conspiracy theorist votes.
 

lionraven

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On the topic of mandates, this ABC article has some interesting pop interviews. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-21/qld-coronavirus-covid-vaccinations-why-now/100628062

People dont know about or care for herd immunity, risk and benefit calculations, mateship and social contracts/duties. All they see is here is a needle with some unknown stuff that could hurt or do nothing. When that changes to here is a needle with some stuff that could hurt or not going traveling/to the pub then suddenly its not a bigger deal as before. On the one hand it is great that everyone in Queensland is getting vaccinated. On the other hand its sad that its mainly for selfish reasons people are doing just the bare minimum to protect their community (and that the stakes had to be upped to job losses/loss of entertainment for it to occur). I wonder how we will go in upcoming climate emergencies when we struggle to do the bare minimum for each other. Rural Queensland is all about mateship and they seem to be the ones lagging the most. It seems to be a global phenomenon though. Thats why we will probably never beat COVID. There will be pockets of unvaccinated that will ferment newer strains which will probably require boosters and we may end up with COVID becoming influenza 2.0 that will consistently circulate between continents and kill several thousand elderly/immunocompromised/comorbid folks every year. Ah well. Im vaxxed + boostered. I cant wait to leave for overseas. I cant wait for football season and to book some trips to Melbourne/interstate for some away matches. Hope we get to play at Adelaide Oval. Would love a trip down there
 

BangyBangy

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On the topic of mandates, this ABC article has some interesting pop interviews. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-21/qld-coronavirus-covid-vaccinations-why-now/100628062

People dont know about or care for herd immunity, risk and benefit calculations, mateship and social contracts/duties. All they see is here is a needle with some unknown stuff that could hurt or do nothing. When that changes to here is a needle with some stuff that could hurt or not going traveling/to the pub then suddenly its not a bigger deal as before. On the one hand it is great that everyone in Queensland is getting vaccinated. On the other hand its sad that its mainly for selfish reasons people are doing just the bare minimum to protect their community (and that the stakes had to be upped to job losses/loss of entertainment for it to occur). I wonder how we will go in upcoming climate emergencies when we struggle to do the bare minimum for each other. Rural Queensland is all about mateship and they seem to be the ones lagging the most. It seems to be a global phenomenon though. Thats why we will probably never beat COVID. There will be pockets of unvaccinated that will ferment newer strains which will probably require boosters and we may end up with COVID becoming influenza 2.0 that will consistently circulate between continents and kill several thousand elderly/immunocompromised/comorbid folks every year. Ah well. Im vaxxed + boostered. I cant wait to leave for overseas. I cant wait for football season and to book some trips to Melbourne/interstate for some away matches. Hope we get to play at Adelaide Oval. Would love a trip down there

The whole thing is a bit of a perfect storm really isn't it.

Politicians that are all self serving worrying about their own agendas, the media that care more about clicks than the greater good of society, and social media platforms that are virtually unregulated.

It's easy to get caught up in the negativity. I still think the 80/20 rule applies. Even without the vaccine mandate 80% of us would've stepped up, 80% of us were going to the shops & not panic buying selfishly. Again, though, that's not a sexy story.

I'm also double vaxxed, no booster for me yet. My sister is in my ear to switch from Pfizer to Moderna.

Not sure where I want to holiday O/S yet though. I hear Gibraltar is 100% vaccinated ;)
 
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Gross exaggeration. The tens of thousands appear to mostly be mild side effects. I’m sure there’s hundreds, if not thousands, who have signed up looking a free pay day, that will never actually submit a claim when they realise what the processes involve.

After my first AZ jab, I had a sore arm for several weeks.

The first night after the dose, I experienced of a mild case of hot and cold shivers

For two days I felt a bit washed out.

I regarded these as minor inconveniences and well worth it for the relief I felt for being at that point, at least partially protected against COVID.

The second dose had absolutely no "side" effects at all apart from more mental relief at knowing I was double vaxxed,

Those "hundreds or thousands" that you speak of (if they exist) need to grow a set , man up and stop being so goddamned childish and puerile
 
After my first AZ jab, I had a sore arm for several weeks.

The first night after the dose, I experienced of a mild case of hot and cold shivers

For two days I felt a bit washed out.

I regarded these as minor inconveniences and well worth it for the relief I felt for being at that point, at least partially protected against COVID.

The second dose had absolutely no "side" effects at all apart from more mental relief at knowing I was double vaxxed,

Those "hundreds or thousands" that you speak of (if they exist) need to grow a set , man up and stop being so goddamned childish and puerile

Even traditional vaccines have a low percentage of people who have side effects that can be devastating but the real damage to those individuals is considered worthwhile from a societal perspective when compared to the historically known real damage to other individuals from not having them (eg polio sufferers vs those who react badly to it).

Just because the side effects that you had were minor inconveniences doesn't mean that other people's deaths or significant consequences are therefore inconsequential.

Trying to tell people who know better that there are zero potential risks from the current campaign not only does not help your case but removes you from all credibility on the issue so a better approach would be to acknowledge the risks, be grateful that your personal experience was minor, and engage on the pros and cons rather than being dismissive or contemptuous.
 
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Even traditional vaccines have a low percentage of people who have side effects that can be devastating but the real damage to those individuals is considered worthwhile from a societal perspective when compared to the historically known real damage to other individuals from not having them (eg polio sufferers vs those who react badly to it).

Just because the side effects that you had were minor inconveniences doesn't mean that other people's deaths or significant consequences are therefore inconsequential.

Trying to tell people who know better that there are zero potential risks from the current campaign not only does not help your case but removes you from all credibility on the issue so a better approach would be to acknowledge the risks, be grateful that your personal experience was minor, and engage on the pros and cons rather than being dismissive or contemptuous.


Ok.

Fair point.

No doubt there is a small subset that will experience significant side effects. As you say, this has been the case for any type of vaccine ever administered

I made my comments in the context of the much larger subset of people that are looking for a payday from the most minor effects.
 

straighttalkin

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Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
Our group has been using the PLUS Cardiac Test (GD Biosciences, Inc, Irvine, CA) a clinically validated measurement
 

straighttalkin

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If its safe and it works. if it's not safe and it doesn't work, mandates are .....
 

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MacMum

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When will all this ridiculous point scoring, who is doing it better and the do's and don'ts etc between states end!

We here in Vic are waiting to see if Dictator Dan gets his permanant powers bill through......and you guys up there are dealing with Queen Anna.

Nephew,wife and 2yr old moving up to Townsville today, fly out later today.....have been Covid tested including 2yr old, are double vaxxed, all required permits, private 2wk quarantine arranged, her parents dropping off a car for them to pick up at airport. Have gone out of their way to do all the right things. No problems.

This morning as they were doing last minute packing, they get a phone call from QLD POLICE (yes, Police) checking what permits they have, where they were staying, how they are getting there, what vaccinations they have and if Covid tested and what employment he was going to! (he has a job)

Seriously?

Is this really what our once free and great country has come too?
 
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Nov 26, 2018
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When will all this ridiculous point scoring, who is doing it better and the do's and don'ts etc between states end!

We here in Vic are waiting to see if Dictator Dan gets his permanant powers bill through......and you guys up there are dealing with Queen Anna.

Nephew,wife and 2yr old moving to Townsville today, fly out later today.....have been Covid tested including 2yr old, are double vaxxed, all required permits, private 2wk quarantine arranged, her parents dropping off a car for them to pick up at airport. Have gone out of their way to do all the right things. No problems.

This morning as they were doing last minute packing, they get a phone call from QLD POLICE (yes, Police) checking what permits they have, where they were staying, how they are getting there, what vaccinations they have and if Covid tested!

Seriously?

Is this really what our once free and great country has come too?
Personally i would much rather a call from the Police to make sure everything is in order to enter the State you are travelling to
Police do all sorts of things in the community not just chase up criminals if that's what first came to you and your Nephew's family's mind
Quite a few people have been caught out at the Airports and borders with the incorrect paperwork
Much rather the call from the Police rather than to be sent back home upon arrival
Also some are getting their test too early.
Now that may be for overseas travel i am not quite sure on that. However it may also be for interstate travel
 

MacMum

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A few months ago I probably would have agreed with you.....not now though as the figures show that this thing is not going away and we have opened up most of the borders, we have to learn to live with it by getting vaxxed and taking our own precautions by still being vigilant i.e masks, hand hygeine and keeping a distance if possible when talking to people....if people choose not to do those things then fine but consequences are on them.

At this stage of the virus all we should have to show is our QR and vaxx record. We have to get people travelling, open all boarders to come and go like we did before but with a couple of tweeks like I mentioned, nothing more and the economy needs it too.....but to have Police doing check-ups on people now is abborant imo....as my old mum said it like back in the Nazi days.

Police should be doing Police work like catching crims, solving crimes.....we are not a Police governed nation and should never at any stage get to that.

(and there were Police everywhere checking people at the airport when family landed last night too. Terrible, it was done before they left. Just had a phone call to say they have had a call this morning to make sure they arrived, are where they said they would be and will get called every day to check in. Geezuz, way way over the top treatment now, early days of the virus yes, not now! Unbelievable. Family do need to do several Covid tests while in lockup, no problem with that though)

Thats all it should be, QR, vaxx and testing.
 
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A few months ago I probably would have agreed with you.....not now though as the figures show that this thing is not going away and we have opened up most of the borders, we have to learn to live with it by getting vaxxed and taking our own precautions by still being vigilant i.e masks, hand hygeine and keeping a distance if possible when talking to people....if people choose not to do those things then fine but consequences are on them.

At this stage of the virus all we should have to show is our QR and vaxx record. We have to get people travelling, open all boarders to come and go like we did before but with a couple of tweeks like I mentioned, nothing more and the economy needs it too.....but to have Police doing check-ups on people now is abborant imo....as my old mum said it like back in the Nazi days.

Police should be doing Police work like catching crims, solving crimes.....we are not a Police governed nation and should never at any stage get to that.

(and there were Police everywhere checking people at the airport when family landed last night too. Terrible, it was done before they left. Just had a phone call to say they have had a call this morning to make sure they arrived, are where they said they would be and will get called every day to check in. Geezuz, way way over the top treatment now, early days of the virus yes, not now! Unbelievable. Family do need to do several Covid tests while in lockup, no problem with that though)

Thats all it should be, QR, vaxx and testing.
Than fine down in Vic but Qld haven’t opened the borders yet.
 

briztoon

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Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning
Our group has been using the PLUS Cardiac Test (GD Biosciences, Inc, Irvine, CA) a clinically validated measurement
So what does that mean for the non medical people here?
 
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