Science/Environment Coronavirus - Should masks be mandatory?

[Frank Bunn]

I find it hilarious that doctors and nurses can wear a mask in surgery for hours on end, yet apparently we will all die of carbon dioxide poisoning and cancer by wearing one for two hours while walking the dog

It's not about the inconvenience. There's a proven health benefit for staff in operating theatres to wear scrub suit attire, masks and protective eyewear. But no one is going to spread or catch the virus from walking their dog.

Just anecdotally, about a month ago it would be rare for me to see people out walking and not wearing a mask. Now I reckon it's about 50/50. It's common sense that wearing a mask when walking alone or with a family member is pointless.

I am in two minds whether I agree with Peter Hitchens that the forced wearing of face coverings publicly signals surrender to the state, or as per Hanlon's razor, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[douglyzia]

We need to lockdown everyone permanently for the rest of eternity. We are already starting to see the benefits of locking everyone down, for example when it comes to the environment. The longer we extend the global lockdown, the better. Ideally, forever.

I, personally, live a pretty good life despite the lockdown, but it has come to my attention that my haters actually enjoy being lockedowned. So, if that is the case, who am I to deny them that enjoyment? Lock everyone down FOREVER!

 

[juss]

I think they should be mandatory for a while longer, then mandatory in certain high risk sectors, then after that, encouraged in high risk sectors. At least until we have a long term plan/vaccine/effective medical treatment.

Its a minor inconvenience for most, and it doesn't eliminate the risk, but if everyone is wearing them then it reduces the risk. Reducing risk is good enough for such a minor inconvenience.

I wear it on a walk, and look I admit if no one is around and its hot or I start to struggle to breath I pull it down. But Il bring it back up when approaching people.

It might not have huge value outdoors, but the problem is outdoors becomes indoors quickly. You go for a walk, you stop by a pharmacy or a post office or a milk bar or a cafe, if you don't have a mask you just pop in and out, at least if its mandatory to wear it everywhere it reduces that scenario likelihood.

Its not a perfect solution, but masks are a one percenter. You add all the little things up and they make a bug difference, so I'm yes to a minor inconvenience for a potential upside, at least for a little while longer in Victoria.

 

[juss]

Only when you're walking outdoors with nobody in a 500 metre proximity.

I seriously can't believe how dumb and submissive Australians are

You're missing the point. Its not about being dumb and submissive. Its about picking your battles as someone said. We aren't being asked to wear full hazmat gear when checking the mail. Its barely an inconvenience for most, and if there's a chance it makes some small positive difference, most are happy to take that.

The idiots are the ones who equate wearing a small face covering to "THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OUR FREEDOMS WE MUST FIGHT THE OPPRESSION". Seriously? Its not that hard and its likely only a little while longer before we can reduce the mask wearing as things improve to just high risk settings.

 

[Austoraisetheurn]

People too regularly equate no evidence as being evidence of absence.

Medical professionals who put themselves forward as "evidence based" are one of the worst culprits.

There is no evidence that locking your door will prevent your house being robbed, but most of us do it anyway.

Masks should be in the same category.

 

[CD Xbow]

Should never be compulsory.

Democracy muzzled | Peter Hitchens | The Critic Magazine

Peter Hitchens says Covid masks are a potent symbol of the West’s headlong flight from Enlightenment values…

thecritic.co.uk

Poor sod could never get out from the shadow of his brother. I find it hard to take him seriously when he states an outright lie - masks don't work. He is also actively contributing to the complete idiocy of politicising masks during a pandemic. I struggle to see mask use as an unreasonable restriction of liberty during a once in a century pandemic. Much of the rest of the article falls into conspiracy theory.

He claims masks don't help, but they do. the science is clear. Community mask use does reduces transmission (>25% risk reduction)and also reduces the viral load if Covid19 transmitted, which some folks believe is important wrt severity. The better the mask (and the better compliance) the better the result. N95 masks are very effective. Discussed here in Nature See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41... clear, the science,if people do contract the

 

[MrKK]

Poor sod could never get out from the shadow of his brother. I find it hard to take him seriously when he states an outright lie - masks don't work. He is also actively contributing to the complete idiocy of politicising masks during a pandemic. I struggle to see mask use as an unreasonable restriction of liberty during a once in a century pandemic. Much of the rest of the article falls into conspiracy theory.

He claims masks don't help, but they do. the science is clear. Community mask use does reduces transmission (>25% risk reduction)and also reduces the viral load if Covid19 transmitted, which some folks believe is important wrt severity. The better the mask (and the better compliance) the better the result. N95 masks are very effective. Discussed here in Nature See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8#:~:text=To be clear, the science,if people do contract the

The paragraph you linked to - "suggesting" and "hints at", hardly definitive stuff and well below the evidence threshold that should exist for such a fundamental societal change as mandatory masks. And it completely ignores any kind of social impact on adults and children from seeing everyone around us as dehumanized viral threats.

It's funny that the article mentions the Danish randomized control study, which they're currently struggling to get published in all of the medical journals that have previously been falling over themselves to promote masks. So what do you think the conclusions of that study will say?

Lots of people don't take Peter Hitchens seriously and think that comparing him to his dead brother is an acceptable alternative to arguing the points he makes. They're usually wrong, but by the time they realise it's too late.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The paragraph you linked to - "suggesting" and "hints at", hardly definitive stuff and well below the evidence threshold that should exist for such a fundamental societal change as mandatory masks. And it completely ignores any kind of social impact on adults and children from seeing everyone around us as dehumanized viral threats.

It's funny that the article mentions the Danish randomized control study, which they're currently struggling to get published in all of the medical journals that have previously been falling over themselves to promote masks. So what do you think the conclusions of that study will say?

Lots of people don't take Peter Hitchens seriously and think that comparing him to his dead brother is an acceptable alternative to arguing the points he makes. They're usually wrong, but by the time they realise it's too late.

LOL you could argue the same about people dressing like gangsta rappers.
Seriously how mentally frail do you think people are?

 

[CD Xbow]

The paragraph you linked to - "suggesting" and "hints at", hardly definitive stuff and well below the evidence threshold that should exist for such a fundamental societal change as mandatory masks. And it completely ignores any kind of social impact on adults and children from seeing everyone around us as dehumanized viral threats.

It's funny that the article mentions the Danish randomized control study, which they're currently struggling to get published in all of the medical journals that have previously been falling over themselves to promote masks. So what do you think the conclusions of that study will say?

Lots of people don't take Peter Hitchens seriously and think that comparing him to his dead brother is an acceptable alternative to arguing the points he makes. They're usually wrong, but by the time they realise it's too late.

I'm puzzling about the statement in bold.

Anyway, masks work. Why morons politicise them I have no idea. Undermining an effective means to reduce transmission that perhaps has the least impact on their 'freedom' is idiocy. I would never have believed so many people could be so dumb. Reality is truly stranger than fiction.

 

[Reynolds Number]

No problem with it being mandatory on all public transport, airports and in all schools during a pandemic, like in Taiwan and other parts of Asia.

 

[Frank Bunn]

It's funny that the article mentions the Danish randomized control study, which they're currently struggling to get published in all of the medical journals that have previously been falling over themselves to promote masks. So what do you think the conclusions of that study will say?

I think it's likely that they found the "wrong" result.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I'm puzzling about the statement in bold.

Anyway, masks work. Why morons politicise them I have no idea. Undermining an effective means to reduce transmission that perhaps has the least impact on their 'freedom' is idiocy. I would never have believed so many people could be so dumb. Reality is truly stranger than fiction.

What's with this generic 'masks work' nonsense? It seems to me that the morons politicising the issue are the ones advocating mask wearing outdoors without any evidence for it.

There have been ZERO cases in the whole of regional Victoria for several days now. Why is there a requirement to wear a mask when out for a walk with no one within 20m of you?

 

[Frank Bunn]

Why we should wear masks particularly in enclosed spots.

A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air

The risk of contagion is highest in indoor spaces but can be reduced by applying all available measures to combat infection via aerosols. Here is an overview of the likelihood of infection in three everyday scenarios, based on the safety measures used and the length of exposure

english.elpais.com

The article seems to be arguing for wearing masks in restaurants.

No evidence that wearing a mask outdoors has any effect.

 

[William Wonka]

Just shut the * up and wear your masks you whiney little sooks.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The article seems to be arguing for wearing masks in restaurants.

No evidence that wearing a mask outdoors has any effect.

I'm just waiting for McDonalds to develop a mask with a pop open straw hole that self seals when you take the straw out.

Restaurants , its pretty obvious that you can't really eat and mask. But i also see people finding their little loopholes already. People walking from their outdoor table to a toilet which is open to the public, ( cafe in a block of a supermarket and a few shops ), without a mask, amongst the other people.

I can actually see both sides of the argument on this thread.
I can't see any argument for walking around a supermarket looking like a total dickhead with a mask on my fat chin, or for the big "Kilroy" nose poking out the top either.

 

[MrKK]

Just shut the fu** up and wear your masks you whiney little sooks.

Stop politicizing masks!

 

[Frank Bunn]

Restaurants , its pretty obvious that you can't really eat and mask.

Reminds me of the video I saw of two women wearing burkas trying to eat spaghetti.

Restaurants , its pretty obvious that you can't really eat and mask. But i also see people finding their little loopholes already. People walking from their outdoor table to a toilet which is open to the public, ( cafe in a block of a supermarket and a few shops ), without a mask, amongst the other people.

I can actually see both sides of the argument on this thread.
I can't see any argument for walking around a supermarket looking like a total dickhead with a mask on my fat chin, or for the big "Kilroy" nose poking out the top either.

I don't think that's a loophole. It would be against the rules. Personally I have no issue wearing a mask outdoors in a busy area like a shopping precinct with cafes etc. But it's pointless in the open when walking your dog or hiking in the countryside. Rather than having rules that try to cater for different outdoor situations it could be changed to a recommendation that people wear masks outdoors.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Reminds me of the video I saw of two women wearing burkas trying to eat spaghetti.



I don't think that's a loophole. It would be against the rules. Personally I have no issue wearing a mask outdoors in a busy area like a shopping precinct with cafes etc. But it's pointless in the open when walking your dog or hiking in the countryside. Rather than having rules that try to cater for different outdoor situations it could be changed to a recommendation that people wear masks outdoors.

You are right.
I think the "mask everywhere " thing is just there to make the rules totally simple.
I expect to see it toned down soon.
Staff in pubs/restaurants.
Masks in public shopping centers , offices and public transport.

 

[William Wonka]

Stop politicizing masks!

Being a whiney sook isn't a political affiliation

 

[Jupes]

 

[Leeda]

Agree with that. But as I said, I think many people are wearing masks in a way that could cause infection rather than prevent it. Eg People drive to the supermarket, then without sanitising grab the mask off the dash that they wore the previous few days, slap it on any old how, touch a few things as they go about their shopping, and adjust their masks as required.

I would like to see the evidence that supports the Vic government mandating masks to be worn. And there needs to be more public education on how to effectively wear them.

this might be true but wouldn't any mask be preferable to nothing at all? Or just distancing as well, and also why can't you wear it on your chin when you are just walking up to the shops and aren't near anyone? Yes it is a yes to all questions but we have done well enough with a mask of any persuasion... especially when you see people wearing bandanas and other dubious face coverings..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

View attachment 1000367

Yes that proves that masks alone can't stop the virus.
How do you suggest it spread if everyone was locked down and wearing masks ?
Its really not a magic virus.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

this might be true but wouldn't any mask be preferable to nothing at all? Or just distancing as well, and also why can't you wear it on your chin when you are just walking up to the shops and aren't near anyone? Yes it is a yes to all questions but we have done well enough with a mask of any persuasion... especially when you see people wearing bandanas and other dubious face coverings..

I'd take it off, it just looks stupid on your chin.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Yes that proves that masks alone can't stop the virus.
How do you suggest it spread if everyone was locked down and wearing masks ?
Its really not a magic virus.

None of the authoritative people who are pro-mask have suggested they do. It's a key part of the armory though.

For those who say masks have no effect, please explain why there was a drop of over 99% in the seasonal flu this year.

 

[Leeda]

I'd take it off, it just looks stupid on your chin.

yep that too.. miss little piggy... hmmm