Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

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GhostofJimJess

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As a Victorian, I can easily say that I much preferred the first wave than the second wave.
Why? Because at least in March and April, every Australian was locked down as opposed to just Victorians in the second wave.
I'm annoyed that only Victorians have to suffer through this why the rest of Australia can enjoy relative or full freedom.
I can see your POV but have to say that I’m in the opposite camp. This second lockdown has been way better, even if it’s just because there’s plenty of footy and other televised sport to occupy the many nights spent in rather than out of the house.

Just to be clear though, I do acknowledge that we in regional Victoria are experiencing a very different second wave to those in urban Melbourne. We have very few restrictions - can go for endless walks, play golf, go for surfs etc, so I’m definitely not playing down your plight.

In fact the biggest issue for many of us in regional Victoria comes not from within but from without. Having NSW and SA close their borders to us has been painful, forcing a 14-day quarantine for Victorians, and even then there needs to be a satisfactory reason to cross.getting my daughter back into NSW for uni was a long and painstaking process.

Living in many parts of regional Victoria is not too much different to living in NSW or Queensland at the moment, if you don’t mind whacking on a mask for shopping, and actually dining inside pubs and restaurants is not your thing.
 

Black white

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As a Victorian, I can easily say that I much preferred the first wave than the second wave.
Why? Because at least in March and April, every Australian was locked down as opposed to just Victorians in the second wave.
I'm annoyed that only Victorians have to suffer through this why the rest of Australia can enjoy relative or full freedom.

It sucks that you all got lucky because you didn't have an incompetent government and/or incompetent security supervising hotel quarantine.

Call me selfish, call me a sook, I couldn't give 2 knobs of goat manure. That's just the way I feel.
To clarify...
An Incompetent govt that hired a useless security company whilst ignoring adf help offered
 

Pessimistic

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Not sure why this is relevant?

Is it your contention that the Victoria Hotel Quarantine program was a success despite genomic tracing showing that 99% of all cases from the second outbreak (which had caused 700+ deaths, Billions of dollars of damage and the shutdown of an entire state) were linked to failures in this program? That's a scientific fact, not really open to argument.

If so good luck selling that story!

Also NSW is taking in basically 100% of all international travellers since the Vic Quarantine program was shut down with 0 failures (shows its not really that hard when competent government is in control).
A bit like Hawks 2020. lost: 12 games. won: Who cares

The genomic testing shows it took just two mistakes, or two clusters of mistakes. Its the nature of the virus
 

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SaintsSeptember

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I can see your POV but have to say that I’m in the opposite camp. This second lockdown has been way better, even if it’s just because there’s plenty of footy and other televised sport to occupy the many nights spent in rather than out of the house.

Just to be clear though, I do acknowledge that we in regional Victoria are experiencing a very different second wave to those in urban Melbourne. We have very few restrictions - can go for endless walks, play golf, go for surfs etc, so I’m definitely not playing down your plight.

In fact the biggest issue for many of us in regional Victoria comes not from within but from without. Having NSW and SA close their borders to us has been painful, forcing a 14-day quarantine for Victorians, and even then there needs to be a satisfactory reason to cross.getting my daughter back into NSW for uni was a long and painstaking process.

Living in many parts of regional Victoria is not too much different to living in NSW or Queensland at the moment, if you don’t mind whacking on a mask for shopping, and actually dining inside pubs and restaurants is not your thing.
My daughter is stressing out over getting to her Nursing placement in Latrobe Valley, it may well be that she needs to Quarantine down there and can't come home until her placement is finished. When they first informed them of the placement she was over the moon , because she got assigned the Royal Childrens. She's working at the moment, but if she needs to quarantine in Gippsland , she won't be able to. ( Placements are unpaid ).
We have relatives she can stay with, but i don't know what she will do for her initial 2 weeks of Quarantine. Its a worry, for various reasons prior to Covid, she already had a disrupted study program.
Hopefully once she's done the quarantine she will be allowed to hang out with her cousins down there . ( It will depend on the Hospital policy rather than the government restrictions ).

Not sure why people lose their bundle over masks, as my youngest child says, "minor inconvenience ". It really is the most minor factor of all the sh*t that is happening.
 

Simon Crawshay

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A bit like Hawks 2020. lost: 12 games. won: Who cares

The genomic testing shows it took just two mistakes, or two clusters of mistakes. Its the nature of the virus
Well I care because those mistakes have materially affected the quality of my (and everyone in Victoria's) life.

And let's not forget those 700+ dead as a direct result of those "mistakes".

Don't blame the virus, it's not some unstoppable force of nature. As other states have shown it can be effectively manged with competent (even hlf competent) governance and decision making in place.
 

campbell

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My daughter is stressing out over getting to her Nursing placement in Latrobe Valley, it may well be that she needs to Quarantine down there and can't come home until her placement is finished. When they first informed them of the placement she was over the moon , because she got assigned the Royal Childrens. She's working at the moment, but if she needs to quarantine in Gippsland , she won't be able to. ( Placements are unpaid ).
We have relatives she can stay with, but i don't know what she will do for her initial 2 weeks of Quarantine. Its a worry, for various reasons prior to Covid, she already had a disrupted study program.
Hopefully once she's done the quarantine she will be allowed to hang out with her cousins down there . ( It will depend on the Hospital policy rather than the government restrictions ).

Not sure why people lose their bundle over masks, as my youngest child says, "minor inconvenience ". It really is the most minor factor of all the sh*t that is happening.
Why do they have to quarantine intrastate?
 

wal

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Also NSW is taking in basically 100% of all international travellers since the Vic Quarantine program was shut down with 0 failures (shows its not really that hard when competent government is in control).
Not true. WA was taking more than their share even before Victoria shut down.
87% of positive cases in WA are from o/seas and there are currently 7 quarantine hotels active with more than 1,900 people under quarantine with an eighth hotel to be added later this week.
 

Pessimistic

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Well I care because those mistakes have materially affected the quality of my (and everyone in Victoria's) life.

And let's not forget those 700+ dead as a direct result of those "mistakes".

Don't blame the virus, it's not some unstoppable force of nature. As other states have shown it can be effectively manged with competent (even hlf competent) governance and decision making in place.
That's why I was asking. How many people quarantined in other states? How many infected were successfully quarantined? How does this compare to victoria.

But we all have to accept 'they refused the ADF so they f’ed up' if a hugely expensive inquiry comes up with that, its a complete waste of money. Thats why they have inquiries. Details Detail, but thanks for dismissing me for asking a question which should be answered by the inquiry

I asked a question and you presumed I had an agenda
 

Pessimistic

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What alternative doe the government allow itself when putting together such a task force.

Is it bound to outsource as first and second preference? Can't it have leeway to put its own force together? and be able to build the working environment rather than try to put together a procurement where it has answered all the question (even though most of them aren't known?)

What operational parameters does it have now that should have been put in place at the outset?

Is the third preference call in the ADF? Isn't that a bit weak?
 

Simon Crawshay

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Not true. WA was taking more than their share even before Victoria shut down.
87% of positive cases in WA are from o/seas and there are currently 7 quarantine hotels active with more than 1,900 people under quarantine with an eighth hotel to be added later this week.
Sorry yes you are correct WA is pulling their weight in this regards.

However for the Eastern seabord (where the majority of Australians live) NSW is processing the majority of returned travellers.
 

Simon Crawshay

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That's why I was asking. How many people quarantined in other states? How many infected were successfully quarantined? How does this compare to victoria.

But we all have to accept 'they refused the ADF so they f’ed up' if a hugely expensive inquiry comes up with that, its a complete waste of money. Thats why they have inquiries. Details Detail, but thanks for dismissing me for asking a question which should be answered by the inquiry

I asked a question and you presumed I had an agenda
Well you just called an inquiry into the biggest beaurcatuc cluster..k in Australian political history a "complete waste of money" so yes it appears you do have an agenda.

I do not know the exact numbers, I doubt those numbers are easily available and I haven't seen them reported anywhere.

But what I do know is that there has not been a single outbreak linked to a failure of any other hotel quarantine program in any other state other than Victoria.

All I can say is can anyone that is following the judicial inquiry so far think to themselves "gee that was a well run, well managed program with clear lines of reporting and structure?"
 

Pessimistic

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Well you just called an inquiry into the biggest beaurcatuc cluster..k in Australian political history a "complete waste of money" so yes it appears you do have an agenda.

I do not know the exact numbers, I doubt those numbers are easily available and I haven't seen them reported anywhere.

But what I do know is that there has not been a single outbreak linked to a failure of any other hotel quarantine program in any other state other than Victoria.

All I can say is can anyone that is following the judicial inquiry so far think to themselves "gee that was a well run, well managed program with clear lines of reporting and structure?"
If you continue to mis quote me, so long
 

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harrythetiger

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yep, we are angry at Dan, but prefer him to be the one we are angry with.

getting to an average daily cases of five or less for 14 days? That hasn’t happened since March. Not sure that will be actually held to for shops and industry which haven’t been able to find a way round it. Surely there’ll be widespread disobedience
Not true, we were there between April 27 and May 3, and again on June 12 and 13. There is no reason we can't get there again.
 

GhostofJimJess

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My daughter is stressing out over getting to her Nursing placement in Latrobe Valley, it may well be that she needs to Quarantine down there and can't come home until her placement is finished. When they first informed them of the placement she was over the moon , because she got assigned the Royal Childrens. She's working at the moment, but if she needs to quarantine in Gippsland , she won't be able to. ( Placements are unpaid ).
We have relatives she can stay with, but i don't know what she will do for her initial 2 weeks of Quarantine. Its a worry, for various reasons prior to Covid, she already had a disrupted study program.
Hopefully once she's done the quarantine she will be allowed to hang out with her cousins down there . ( It will depend on the Hospital policy rather than the government restrictions ).

Not sure why people lose their bundle over masks, as my youngest child says, "minor inconvenience ". It really is the most minor factor of all the sh*t that is happening.
Gee, yours and your daughter's story is sounding really familiar, and it's really tough on you all. A whole lot of anxiety and emotional energy came and went and came again in the lead up to the quarantine, I can tell you. Even on the morning she had to cross the border it was pretty stressful - whether all the paperwork would stack up, or would she just be turned around after two weeks and a couple of grand in costs. She's doing 3rd year med at UNSW which would normally involve an entire year of clinical rounds, but has now been curtailed into a 3-month intensive, on top of all of the exams being done online etc. It's been bloody torturous tbh. It's all well and good for the Sydney folks, and even the handful of Queenslanders who had no trouble moving southwards, but getting into NSW from Victoria has been a real struggle. I was quite interested to hear Gladys berating the Queensland premier on the telly the other night for their tough border regulations ... just a tad hypocritical, but I guess that's politics.

Best of luck to your daughter and you guys as parents, mate. It's a shame the frontline health workers of tomorrow are not being more highly valued and having their learning more suitably facilitated. I suspect we're all going to need them at some stage.
 

jatz14

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Well you just called an inquiry into the biggest beaurcatuc cluster..k in Australian political history a "complete waste of money" so yes it appears you do have an agenda.

I do not know the exact numbers, I doubt those numbers are easily available and I haven't seen them reported anywhere.

But what I do know is that there has not been a single outbreak linked to a failure of any other hotel quarantine program in any other state other than Victoria.

All I can say is can anyone that is following the judicial inquiry so far think to themselves "gee that was a well run, well managed program with clear lines of reporting and structure?"
None of that follows from the outcome though. In WA, people escaped quarantine, but they didn't spread the virus, which they could have.

I just think random chance plays a much bigger part in this than people are prepared to concede.

The line between current reality, and a reality where Vic is open and everyone is going, the ADF, what the fu** would the ADF know about running a quarantine hotel, what were they thinking, while Sydney is totally shut down, is quite small.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Simon Crawshay

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None of that follows from the outcome though. In WA, people escaped quarantine, but they didn't spread the virus, which they could have.

I just think random chance plays a much bigger part in this than people are prepared to concede.

The line between current reality, and a reality where Vic is open and everyone is going, the ADF, what the fu** would the ADF know about running a quarantine hotel, what were they thinking, while Sydney is totally shut down, is quite small.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
With all that we have learnt from the behavior of the security guards (harassing nurses, p.ssing on floors, falling asleep on the job, stealing food from guests, not isolating and continuing to work second jobs after testing positive, etc, etc) can anyone put their hand on their heart and say that given the option between ADF and these security guards anyone in their right mind would go with the security guards?

I have mates who are in the ADF and whilst they aint no angels they have discipline and training. And they are used to dealing with crisis situations having been sent over to the Pacific Islands to assist with hurricane relief, etc. And if a security guard gets caught stuffing around, big deal they loose a short term $20 an hour gig. But if an ADF troop is caught its off to the Brig with him or her!

The more I learn about how the hotel quarantine program was being run the more I honestly believe it was an inevitability it was going to fail, bad luck had little to do with it.

I mean on Day 1 of the program bureaucrats on the ground at the hotels were contacting their department heads telling them that the guards were not up to the job. Does that speak of bad luck or rather a system that was destined to fail?

The public servant sent a second email on March 30 — two days into the scheme — urging DHHS to ban those in quarantine from leaving their rooms for any reason and to bring in police support, as the contracted security guards were “not adequate” for the job.

 

jatz14

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With all that we have learnt from the behavior of the security guards (harassing nurses, p.ssing on floors, falling asleep on the job, stealing food from guests, not isolating and continuing to work second jobs after testing positive, etc, etc) can anyone put their hand on their heart and say that given the option between ADF and these security guards anyone in their right mind would go with the security guards?

I have mates who are in the ADF and whilst they aint no angels they have discipline and training. And they are used to dealing with crisis situations having been sent over to the Pacific Islands to assist with hurricane relief, etc. And if a security guard gets caught stuffing around, big deal they loose a short term $20 an hour gig. But if an ADF troop is caught its off to the Brig with him or her!

The more I learn about how the hotel quarantine program was being run the more I honestly believe it was an inevitability it was going to fail, bad luck had little to do with it.

I mean on Day 1 of the program bureaucrats on the ground at the hotels were contacting their department heads telling them that the guards were not up to the job. Does that speak of bad luck or rather a system that was destined to fail?

The public servant sent a second email on March 30 — two days into the scheme — urging DHHS to ban those in quarantine from leaving their rooms for any reason and to bring in police support, as the contracted security guards were “not adequate” for the job.

My understanding is, you would still have had those security guards though. ADF provides supervision, oversight, etc, you don't have soldiers standing guard on the doors, that is still the security guards, and if those guards are the sort to slack off the moment they aren't watched, Im not sure it matters who is setting the roster.
 

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With all that we have learnt from the behavior of the security guards (harassing nurses, p.ssing on floors, falling asleep on the job, stealing food from guests, not isolating and continuing to work second jobs after testing positive, etc, etc) can anyone put their hand on their heart and say that given the option between ADF and these security guards anyone in their right mind would go with the security guards?

I have mates who are in the ADF and whilst they aint no angels they have discipline and training. And they are used to dealing with crisis situations having been sent over to the Pacific Islands to assist with hurricane relief, etc. And if a security guard gets caught stuffing around, big deal they loose a short term $20 an hour gig. But if an ADF troop is caught its off to the Brig with him or her!

The more I learn about how the hotel quarantine program was being run the more I honestly believe it was an inevitability it was going to fail, bad luck had little to do with it.

I mean on Day 1 of the program bureaucrats on the ground at the hotels were contacting their department heads telling them that the guards were not up to the job. Does that speak of bad luck or rather a system that was destined to fail?

The public servant sent a second email on March 30 — two days into the scheme — urging DHHS to ban those in quarantine from leaving their rooms for any reason and to bring in police support, as the contracted security guards were “not adequate” for the job.

‘because we have been drumming into governments for so long to outsource as a first and second option. It’s ideology and it stinks. Why couldn’t the public service itself hire people direct on short contracts?
 

harrythetiger

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‘that’s not 14 days straight which is how I read it. I don’t think it’s possible
To trigger the third step, which is where regional Victoria is now and pretty much where we got to in May-June, we just need to hit a 14 day average of 5, and have less than 3 community transmissions in the last 14 days.
I think you might be mixing it up with the last step, no new cases for 14 days. That one is pretty out there, I agree.
 

Simon Crawshay

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To trigger the third step, which is where regional Victoria is now and pretty much where we got to in May-June, we just need to hit a 14 day average of 5, and have less than 3 community transmissions in the last 14 days.
I think you might be mixing it up with the last step, no new cases for 14 days. That one is pretty out there, I agree.
Even a 14 day average of 5 is pretty out there in my opinion given NSW isn't even meeting that target and they are already essentially open for business.
 

harrythetiger

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Even a 14 day average of 5 is pretty out there in my opinion given NSW isn't even meeting that target and they are already essentially open for business.
That's the exact difference, they are open for business, so they are going to have some spread. Unless the plan changes, metropolitan Melbourne is going to be in lockdown until we get there.
 

Simon Crawshay

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That's the exact difference, they are open for business, so they are going to have some spread. Unless the plan changes, metropolitan Melbourne is going to be in lockdown until we get there.
That means Victoria is going for total elimination.

I have read a lot of commentary from epidemiologists who think this is impossible given the size of Melbourne and how long the virus has been embedded in the community.
 

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