News Coronavirus and the draft

[GUMBLETRON]

First step

Community football gets green light, training rules revealed

AFL Victoria is permitting community footballers to train in groups of 10 from Monday

www.afl.com.au

 

[andleanback]

Clubs are apparently begging Champion Data for footage of past games so that they can review that as part of their draft prep.

Also potential for topping up the lists ahead of season 2020, something about 60 players per club to enable more rotations with shorter breaks between games.

What past games are you talking about?

 

[Lore]

What past games are you talking about?

U18s trial games according to the article, but I guess they'll take whatever they can get.

Draft panic as clubs ask for U18 trial game vision

Clubs push Champion Data to get access to match vision of every U18 and state league trial game this year

www.afl.com.au

 

[andleanback]

U18s trial games according to the article, but I guess they'll take whatever they can get.

Draft panic as clubs ask for U18 trial game vision

Clubs push Champion Data to get access to match vision of every U18 and state league trial game this year

www.afl.com.au

Most clubs already have access to vision of the trial games.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Assuming the year is wiped, a proper lottery would be the best idea. And pretty cool

However I could see the afl weighting it to prop up the bottom teams, based on last season ladder.

 

[jjami15]

Assuming the year is wiped, a proper lottery would be the best idea. And pretty cool

However I could see the afl weighting it to prop up the bottom teams, based on last season ladder.

I would rather look at the last 4/5/6 years or so and average that out to find the picks. If you wanted to add a lottery maybe for the bottom six or so.

 

[briztoon]

I would rather look at the last 4/5/6 years or so and average that out to find the picks. If you wanted to add a lottery maybe for the bottom six or so.

Goes and checks Port’s finishing position for the last 5 years.

10, 10, 5, 15, 15.

Averaged out at 11.

Brisbane: 2, 15, 18, 17, 17.

Averaged out at 13.8. Let’s say 14.

So picks 8 and 5. I’ll take that.

 

[philthy05]

Worst case scenario and all footy has a break for 2020. I would love to see no draft for the year and a raising of the draft age from now on.
Maybe just a mini draft of previously nominated players to top up lists in case of retirees.

That’s a horrible idea.

A) you end up with a bunch of young kids leaving school and instead of going into professional programmes they have to get full time jobs or go to uni

How many prospects drop out of football? How easy do you think it is to manage a full time job or uni with football especially if you’re trying to become a professional.

B) players in a sport that has a very short life span get that cut shorter

C) players get into professional training and fitness programmes later

 

[Puregold]

That’s a horrible idea.

A) you end up with a bunch of young kids leaving school and instead of going into professional programmes they have to get full time jobs or go to uni

How many prospects drop out of football? How easy do you think it is to manage a full time job or uni with football especially if you’re trying to become a professional.

B) players in a sport that has a very short life span get that cut shorter

C) players get into professional training and fitness programmes later

Having a short life span is an even better reason for prolonging. Ensures players begin post football career development that they will consolidate while playing football.
also gives them more time to let their bodies grow.
Takes away drafting pressures around exam times.
allows them to experience normal childhood activities outside of a football spotlight - leavers, orientation days, post 18 going out, etc.

 

[philthy05]

Having a short life span is an even better reason for prolonging. Ensures players begin post football career development that they will consolidate while playing football.
also gives them more time to let their bodies grow.
Takes away drafting pressures around exam times.
allows them to experience normal childhood activities outside of a football spotlight - leavers, orientation days, post 18 going out, etc.

In what possible way is having their careers shortened a positive thing?

Also getting a 1 year jump on post football career is such a negligible benefit.

Another year to let their body grow? What their bodies don’t grow if they get drafted? They get to grow in a professional system.

As for pressures during exams and getting drafted.. eh. It’s not great but what, you think a full time job is a walk in the park?

 

[Puregold]

In what possible way is having their careers shortened a positive thing?

Also getting a 1 year jump on post football career is such a negligible benefit.

Another year to let their body grow? What their bodies don’t grow if they get drafted? They get to grow in a professional system.

As for pressures during exams and getting drafted.. eh. It’s not great but what, you think a full time job is a walk in the park?

Sorry mate. What is the average football career? I’d say between 5-8 years. Draftees will still get a 2 year contract. Average footballer would be around 26 by the end of their tim in the afl under this model. Good footballers could still play until mid 30s.

 

[philthy05]

Sorry mate. What is the average football career? I’d say between 5-8 years. Draftees will still get a 2 year contract. Average footballer would be around 26 by the end of their tim in the afl under this model. Good footballers could still play until mid 30s.

If they start a year later, you’re shortening their career by a year. It’s not a trick question.

 

[Puregold]

In what possible way is having their careers shortened a positive thing?

Also getting a 1 year jump on post football career is such a negligible benefit.

Another year to let their body grow? What their bodies don’t grow if they get drafted? They get to grow in a professional system.

As for pressures during exams and getting drafted.. eh. It’s not great but what, you think a full time job is a walk in the park?

I’m just a high school teacher and a father of three young, football keen boys though.
these articles of more impressive stakeholders may interest you:

Picken: Why AFL Draft age should be lifted to 19

Liam Picken believes the draft age should be lifted to at least 19 to give potential recruits the opportunity to begin work and/or study.

thewest.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

 

[Puregold]

If they start a year later, you’re shortening their career by a year. It’s not a trick question.

You are only shortening the careers of those that get to retire. From my club that would be a player like Sandilands, Pavlich, mundy etc. you are not shortening the career of those that get cut. The clubs do that.

 

[Peel67skin]

I’m just a high school teacher and a father of three young, football keen boys though.
these articles of more impressive stakeholders may interest you:

Picken: Why AFL Draft age should be lifted to 19

Liam Picken believes the draft age should be lifted to at least 19 to give potential recruits the opportunity to begin work and/or study.

thewest.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

There's no right or wrong answer here, more about personal preference.

 

[philthy05]

I’m just a high school teacher and a father of three young, football keen boys though.
these articles of more impressive stakeholders may interest you:

Picken: Why AFL Draft age should be lifted to 19

Liam Picken believes the draft age should be lifted to at least 19 to give potential recruits the opportunity to begin work and/or study.

thewest.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

Those articles offer zero. Picken gives nothing but some vague notions that they would gain experiences in that year.

Jonas talks about how he started a law degree in the couple of years before he was drafted Lol. If he was drafted at 18 he could still get a law degree post football. All these opinions are just fluff pieces in a paper offering outsider views for clicks based off anecdotal evidence with nothing substantial to show for applying it en masse.

 

[philthy05]

You are only shortening the careers of those that get to retire. From my club that would be a player like Sandilands, Pavlich, mundy etc. you are not shortening the career of those that get cut. The clubs do that.

I cannot make sense of this counter argument.

I say starting players a year later shortens their careers by a year

You say it doesn’t, except for all the footballers it does, but not the ones that get cut?

Where do I start..

So you agree it does a shorten the career of professional footballers?

But not those that get cut? What do you think those guys do after that? They go to a state league, where they can earn good money. You’re still cutting their football careers a year shorter. It’s so inarguably true that I’m baffled beyond belief I’m having this discussion.

 

[Puregold]

Those articles offer zero. Picken gives nothing but some vague notions that they would gain experiences in that year.

Jonas talks about how he started a law degree in the couple of years before he was drafted Lol. If he was drafted at 18 he could still get a law degree post football. All these opinions are just fluff pieces in a paper offering outsider views for clicks based off anecdotal evidence with nothing substantial to show for applying it en masse.

also supported by coaches like Paul Roos further in the article. Your option has no support anecdotal or otherwise

More player and coach support. Plus reasons behind other codes having a higher draft age

Time to raise the draft age

RAISING the AFL draft age it seems has become a longer, deeper, tougher task than raising the Titanic. Like the ill-fated British passenger liner, it’s long overdue.

www.google.com.au

 

[Puregold]

I cannot make sense of this counter argument.

I say starting players a year later shortens their careers by a year

You say it doesn’t, except for all the footballers it does, but not the ones that get cut?

Where do I start..

So you agree it does a shorten the career of professional footballers?

But not those that get cut? What do you think those guys do after that? They go to a state league, where they can earn good money. You’re still cutting their football careers a year shorter. It’s so inarguably true that I’m baffled beyond belief I’m having this discussion.

You do sound baffled. They start afl at 18 majority end around 6 years that is 24. If they start at 19 end around 6 years later that’s 25. Have their careers been shortened by the draft age going up. Not at all. Thy still played afl for the average length of time. The opinions of many greats of the game from cometti to Leighton Mathews to Paul Roos to Mathew Pavlich think that it may in fact improve their chances of getting a career out of this and beyond this.

they can still go off and play in “lucrative” state leagues if they want regardless of the end of the afl careers. Some even go into the more lucrative country leagues. Fev gets thousands of dollars for one off appearances atlocal football level at the age of 39.

I have had personal conversations with 3 afl players on this. Two that I taught and a former premiership winner who is now out of the game completely. he made countless mistakes across his football career that he, in part, contributes to his early career. He got drafted interstate and that distance from his support network impacted on his decision making.
The first kid I taught played less than 5 games (all as a sub) of afl and has now been lost both afl and state football. Also drafted interstate. Start a year later and he is no worse off but would have better support and a more level head after a year outside of school prepping.
the other kid was a high draftpick and is tracking well for a long career but even so in his first season had hits that damaged his less mature body

 

[philthy05]

also supported by coaches like Paul Roos further in the article. Your option has no support anecdotal or otherwise

More player and coach support. Plus reasons behind other codes having a higher draft age

Time to raise the draft age

RAISING the AFL draft age it seems has become a longer, deeper, tougher task than raising the Titanic. Like the ill-fated British passenger liner, it’s long overdue.

www.google.com.au

It’s still only a tiny handful of people advocating for it. What 5/6 out of literally 1000’s of former and current players coaches and other stakeholders in the game?

You could just as well use flat earthers to suggest that the earth really is flat because 5 of them agree.

As for my evidence

A) I’m arguing for the incumbent. If you want to change it provide actual evidence to support that change

B) I’ve provided logical and factual arguments against.

Also I have to laugh at bringing up other codes. American sports have a college system and they can play nfl and basketball into their late 30’s and sometimes even 40’s.

Also, if you knew anything about these other sporting codes you would know they are in full time sporting systems before they turn 13. You think Ben Simmons was just chilling until he went to LSU?

We don’t have anywhere near that kind of s**t here in Aus and never will.

You do sound baffled. They start afl at 18 majority end around 6 years that is 24. If they start at 19 end around 6 years later that’s 25. Have their careers been shortened by the draft age going up. Not at all. Thy still played afl for the average length of time. The opinions of many greats of the game from cometti to Leighton Mathews to Paul Roos to Mathew Pavlich think that it may in fact improve their chances of getting a career out of this and beyond this.

they can still go off and play in “lucrative” state leagues if they want regardless of the end of the afl careers. Some even go into the more lucrative country leagues. Fev gets thousands of dollars for one off appearances atlocal football level at the age of 39.

I have had personal conversations with 3 afl players on this. Two that I taught and a former premiership winner who is now out of the game completely. he made countless mistakes across his football career that he, in part, contributes to his early career. He got drafted interstate and that distance from his support network impacted on his decision making.
The first kid I taught played less than 5 games (all as a sub) of afl and has now been lost both afl and state football. Also drafted interstate. Start a year later and he is no worse off but would have better support and a more level head after a year outside of school prepping.
the other kid was a high draftpick and is tracking well for a long career but even so in his first season had hits that damaged his less mature body

Your application of maths and tiny samples of anecdotal evidence to suggest that starting careers a year later doesn’t shorten the career of afl players is bizarre.

Boak, Martin, Riewoldt, Walsh , Bontempelli, coniglio and so on.

What you are proposing cuts a year from their personal careers. That is an inescapable fact.

As for that guy saying he made mistakes as a young kid, you do realise that’s a universal thing that everyone experiences and there’s nothing to suggest that drafting a year later makes footballers infinitely smarter than the general population.

 

[TradeDraft]

These kids have been followed by clubs since they were 14/15, most clubs would be confident in their work up until this point

Though hurt the Kids that might of Really Come on in there 18th Year as we seen quite a lot Happen.

Player who was not even on the Radar start of Season but by end is seen as a 1st Round Pick

 

[Puregold]

It’s still only a tiny handful of people advocating for it. What 5/6 out of literally 1000’s of former and current players coaches and other stakeholders in the game?

You could just as well use flat earthers to suggest that the earth really is flat because 5 of them agree.

We can argue all day long but I am not making stats up - not sure of your background but I am going to assume that you (like me) are a football fan with an opinion. You want to keep drafting at 18 and I want to see the draft age going up. I am sure neither of us played, coached or administrated at an AFL level

The below quote is from one of the article I posted

"Former Sydney and Melbourne coach Paul Roos and retired Fremantle champion Matthew Pavlich are both in the “yes” camp.
Pavlich, the AFL Players’ Association president, said earlier this year drafting 18-year-olds introduced a risk of “robbing young men of at least one or two important years of their life’s development”.
“I believe 19 or event 20 is the right age to be drafted,” he said.
Roos told News Corp this year “only one coach was strong on the draft age staying”.

That is not 5 or 6 as you seem to think. That is 94% of coaches think that the draft age should be raised. That was before this crisis. That was before we had a afl football season that is possibly getting canned. That was before all junior football got canned at least until the end of May. Ignoring facts seems to be your stock and trade.

I am advocating for no real draft this year. Retirements to be the only list changes, no player to be cut. Replacement for retirements to be preseason draft rules - ie only players that have missed out on being drafted in previous years.
I think that the draft age should be raised and I think this year gives us the best possible chance to do so.

 

[philthy05]

We can argue all day long but I am not making stats up - not sure of your background but I am going to assume that you (like me) are a football fan with an opinion. You want to keep drafting at 18 and I want to see the draft age going up. I am sure neither of us played, coached or administrated at an AFL level

The below quote is from one of the article I posted

"Former Sydney and Melbourne coach Paul Roos and retired Fremantle champion Matthew Pavlich are both in the “yes” camp.
Pavlich, the AFL Players’ Association president, said earlier this year drafting 18-year-olds introduced a risk of “robbing young men of at least one or two important years of their life’s development”.
“I believe 19 or event 20 is the right age to be drafted,” he said.
Roos told News Corp this year “only one coach was strong on the draft age staying”.

That is not 5 or 6 as you seem to think. That is 94% of coaches think that the draft age should be raised. That was before this crisis. That was before we had a afl football season that is possibly getting canned. That was before all junior football got canned at least until the end of May. Ignoring facts seems to be your stock and trade.

I am advocating for no real draft this year. Retirements to be the only list changes, no player to be cut. Replacement for retirements to be preseason draft rules - ie only players that have missed out on being drafted in previous years.
I think that the draft age should be raised and I think this year gives us the best possible chance to do so.

If you’re the sort of thinker that takes a quote with zero evidence such as “only one coach was strong on the draft age staying” by Paul Roos citing no study for that in a story he’s pushing his point and equate that to ‘94% of coaches want the draft age raised’ I cannot have a serious discussion with you.

 

[Puregold]

If you’re the sort of thinker that takes a quote with zero evidence such as “only one coach was strong on the draft age staying” by Paul Roos citing no study for that in a story he’s pushing his point and equate that to ‘94% of coaches want the draft age raised’ I cannot have a serious discussion with you.

But you are

 

[Pykie]

If for whatever reason the season can't be finished.

The only fair scenario is a lottery based on 2019 finishes.

Lotto the bottom 10 separately to the top 8.

The following would be the % chances of the no.1 pick.

Gold Coast	18.18%​
Melbourne	16.36%​
Carlton	14.55%​
Sydney	12.73%​
St Kilda	10.91%​
Fremantle	9.09%​
North	7.27%​
Adelaide	5.45%​
Port Adelaide	3.64%​
Hawthorn	1.82%​

 

[philthy05]

If for whatever reason the season can't be finished.

The only fair scenario is a lottery based on 2019 finishes.

Lotto the bottom 10 separately to the top 8.

The following would be the % chances of the no.1 pick.

Gold Coast	18.18%​
Melbourne	16.36%​
Carlton	14.55%​
Sydney	12.73%​
St Kilda	10.91%​
Fremantle	9.09%​
North	7.27%​
Adelaide	5.45%​
Port Adelaide	3.64%​
Hawthorn	1.82%​

Depends if we get no more games then maybe it’s forced.

The afl seem open to playing at least some games late in the year even into January.

It’s possible we could get games sometime between nov-jan.

And if it’s a small sample size add it to last years ladder to get some sort of average.

But it’s all guesswork at this stage.