News Coronavirus Thread

[Snake_Baker]

Alternative medicine is basically lawless. If something happens it can be swept under the rug. No ethics committees. Limited scrutiny (unless you count comments sections on Facebook ). Alternative medicines have their place but lets not attack science to push your agenda.

It's not science. Period.

 

[Only Forwards]

I see the idea of universal basic income is starting to enter the mainstream much more.

Hopefully this is an output on the other side of this thing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Now, take the same dog, and do not give it meloxicam, and acupuncture it instead. One of two results: a) the dog responds immediately, feels great, keep going. b) no response, the dog is still the same. c) there is no C. The dog has not been harmed, and most importantly, is still alive.

Paper. Replication. 95%CI/R2/RSD/etc. Where is it?

 

[Flawed Genius]

As we career hopelessly towards a part 2 of this thread let's please refrain from personal insults or attacking the man in a thread dedicated to discussing a global pandemic. This cuts both ways - there has been some really informative discussion in this thread so far and it's been a valuable source of information on certain aspects of the virus. I would hate to have to dish out thread bans for part 2. Please be mindful of the rules of the board

 

[koshari]

Nicest bloody meat I have ever eaten. Had a couple of our Belted Galloway happily ploughed through. Scrum diddley dumptious

and when it comes to pork the old Berkshire are not to shabby.

 

[Jimmy's Hot Dogs]

It's not science. Period.

Wrong thread (what’s new) but I really enjoyed the book Genius about Feynman.
A brilliantly sharp mind.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Wrong thread (what’s new) but I really enjoyed the book Genius about Feynman.
A brilliantly sharp mind.

"The Great Educator". He is the master when it comes to teaching people "how" to think.

The wash up of my post is in pointing out that claims aren't worth anything unless they can be shown to have undergone rigid experimentation, replication, analysis, and falsification protocols. What we have seen from certain posters in this thread is what can only be assumed at this point in time to be biased cognitive reinforcement. that tables nothing in the way of anything approaching scientific rigor.

 

[rickety]

and when it comes to pork the old Berkshire are not to shabby.

Are they Berkshire pigs?

 

[EDFL follower]

I see the idea of universal basic income is starting to enter the mainstream much more.

Hopefully this is an output on the other side of this thing.

How would this work exactly?
Everyone gets x amount of money off the government each week?
How does this help the economy?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

How would this work exactly?
Everyone gets x amount of money off the government each week?
How does this help the economy?

It will take stagnant money from the wealthy and put it in pockets of spenders.

 

[Snake_Baker]

As we career hopelessly towards a part 2 of this thread let's please refrain from personal insults or attacking the man in a thread dedicated to discussing a global pandemic. This cuts both ways - there has been some really informative discussion in this thread so far and it's been a valuable source of information on certain aspects of the virus. I would hate to have to dish out thread bans for part 2. Please be mindful of the rules of the board

Good luck sifting through warranted critique and manipulative childish appeals to victim hood status, because intelligence resides in the tiny gap that separates.

 

[krakouers]

It will take stagnant money from the wealthy and put it in pockets of spenders.

A strong domestic tax regime | Australian Taxation Office

How Australia's tax laws and rules strengthen our domestic tax regime for large corporate groups.

www.ato.gov.au

Could this be strengthened/changed? Or is this increasing tax revenue?

 

[Flawed Genius]

Good luck sifting through warranted critique and manipulative childish appeals to victim hood status, because intelligence resides in the tiny gap that separates.

This is why the mods get paid the BIG BUCKS

 

[krakouers]

This is why the mods get paid the BIG BUCKS

We have Mods?!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

A strong domestic tax regime | Australian Taxation Office

How Australia's tax laws and rules strengthen our domestic tax regime for large corporate groups.

www.ato.gov.au

Could this be strengthened/changed? Or is this increasing tax revenue?

It will fund consumption, and GST revenues.

 

[Samsquanch]

The Goodies and Monkee made the ABC cool in the school yard. If you weren’t watching either you were a social pariah

And Metal Mickey.



But RIP TB-T.

 

[kaboom kid]

Yeah, nah, read my post for what I was saying. I'm talking about weight of criticism being equally distributed. You cannot criticise one modality of medicine without acknowledging that the same happens in others. Western medicine is neither foolproof effective nor safe, no matter how many scientific studies are conducted within it.

Let me give you an example. In veterinary medicine, there is a decades-old NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory) called meloxicam. It's been double-blind peer-reviewed studied probably more than any other drug in its class, and it's widely used in North America. Now, despite all this scientific study (and don't even get me started on what is done to animals by the thousandfold in order to conduct these studies), to this day, when you administer meloxicam you can get one of three responses in a patient: a) it works a charm, the dog feels better, all is well - EXCEPT that the dog's blood work must be monitored regularly as long as they are on it, as long term use of the drug can cause kidney and/or liver failure, b) the drug doesn't do a thing, the patient feels no better, or c) the drug causes overwhelming gastroinestinal hemorrhage, and the patient dies within 24 hours. I have seen all three happen. So how meaningful was all the testing? How foolproof? How valuable? That's up to the individual to decide, but from my perspective, I certainly wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket as peer-reviewed studies being the final word there. I'd say the patient had the final word, in fact. It's how I usually feel.

Now, take the same dog, and do not give it meloxicam, and acupuncture it instead. One of two results: a) the dog responds immediately, feels great, keep going. b) no response, the dog is still the same. c) there is no C. The dog has not been harmed, and most importantly, is still alive.

And that's just one example. We see a multitude of patients referred to us for the sole reason that the drugs they were put on elsewhere are now the very thing that is threatening to kill them. Sometimes we can help them with TCM, sometimes we can't. But at the very, VERY least, we do not cause them harm, the way the drugs they'd been put on had. Drugs that have been tested. Peer-reviewed. Double-blind. Pick your term.

My point all along has been that positives and negatives exist within all modalities. If you pick out one thing to criticise in one, then you must acknowledge that it also exists in the other. Same with praise. The weight of criticism needs to be fairly applied. And the real proof always lies in the patient being treated.

I would agree that the real proof lies in the patient being treated and for most alternative therapies there is no proof that they work. Whereas for the example you quote, Meloxicam, there are multiple placebo controlled double blinded studies that prove that it works. Personally if I'm going to use something to relieve the pain and suffering experienced by my dog I would prefer to use something with proven efficacy like Meloxicam. The side effects associated with non steroidal anti -inflammatory drugs are well established. For the most part they are rare, can be treated and resolve with cessation of therapy. The majority of dogs being treated don't experience side effects. Alternative therapies are not innocuous and side effects do occur. To state that they are completely safe is not true. For example I have seen a dog almost die from a multi resistant infection introduced by acupuncture needles.

 

[Caracas]

I would agree that the real proof lies in the patient being treated and for most alternative therapies there is no proof that they work. Whereas for the example you quote, Meloxicam, there are multiple placebo controlled double blinded studies that prove that it works. Personally if I'm going to use something to relieve the pain and suffering experienced by my dog I would prefer to use something with proven efficacy like Meloxicam. The side effects associated with non steroidal anti -inflammatory drugs are well established. For the most part they are rare, can be treated and resolve with cessation of therapy. The majority of dogs being treated don't experience side effects. Alternative therapies are not innocuous and side effects do occur. To state that they are completely safe is not true. For example I have seen a dog almost die from a multi resistant infection introduced by acupuncture needles.

In fairness KK, in this instance, you’ve probably proved SN’s point. Having said that, personally speaking, I’ve always tended towards the western medicine when it came to anything serious. I’ve had good experiences with acupuncture when it’s come to tendon/muscle-related, back/neck problems.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tectonic]

How would this work exactly?
Everyone gets x amount of money off the government each week?
How does this help the economy?

It's not that simple..

So everyone gets a basic stipend from the government, probably akin to normal jobseeker.
As a run off effect from that;

-You do away with the tax free threshold
-full time work is no longer necessary
-this leads to more people in jobs because 3 part timers can fill the role of 2 full timers
-more people earning = more people paying taxes
-you can build into the system safeguards to do away with cash jobs, leading to more revenue for the state
-more revenue (state and personal)= more spending, leading to more jobs and growth

 

[rickety]

It's not science. Period.

Is he a genius like these blokes?

 

[ferball]

A quick fact check will show that I've mentioned his name 4 times (including my previous comment - a couple were also responses to people that mentioned him so they get flagged in the search) in a thread of over 9k comments.

Which is far less than our "I don't care about him but..." crew (which includes our very own North supporting Canadian vegan).

Bigfooty has its own "the sky is falling...BLAME TRUMP!" thread so there is no need to bring that narrative to the North Corona thread like some seem intent on doing.

As you were.

If we are talking about this virus and his response then actually it does belong here. He is still sending out mixed messages and just today or last night Fauci said earlier social distancing could have saved lives.

At the same time other Republican politicians have said they were following Trump's cues, for example the Gov of Florida, the US' retirement village. Florida only introduced Social D the day after April Fools ...

That is very specific to this virus and that individual.

In Italy, where similar mistakes were made they were very quick to say they had stuffed up and advise others not to copy them.

 

[Carlos Herrrnandez]

Keep it rollin!

 

[Tectonic]

I don't want to hear the word unprecedented ever again after this

 

[kaboom kid]

Why is it arbitrary? He's the one in charge.

Sorry it was an autocorrect error. I didn't mean for arbitrary to even be in there

 

[ferball]

Nicest bloody meat I have ever eaten. Had a couple of our Belted Galloway happily ploughed through. Scrum diddley dumptious

Same mostly.