News Coronavirus Thread

[ferball]

Still doesn't mean the public wouldn't give it to them. It has happened before with things like terrorism where the public is either willing or indifferent to trading off the right to privacy for a perceived benefit of a safer society.

Enough is enough with the police state bullshit tho.

What are we... China?

 

[ferball]

If I was confident that there were safeguards in place, that any changes were strictly temporary, that all data collected would be destroyed or at least anonymised at the end of the threat, and that there was sufficient independent oversight, then yes I would be okay with it.

Are you confident of any or all of those things tho?

And if you are I have to ask ... on what basis?

 

[Caracas]

Are you confident of any or all of those things tho?

And if you are I have to ask ... on what basis?

From my cynical point of view today, I’d say that the ship has well and truly sailed on this side of things. “They” can pretty much find out anything they want about you already. In this instance, they’re actually asking first.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GarnerSmash]

They will if the US cut them off at the knees, which they’re more then capable of doing. China is a paper tiger compared to the US.

The Chinese won't accept liability for letting this thing get out of control and the US won't cut them off at the knees. No one is going to war over this. This 'outrage' is useful bluster to allow the Republicans to point blame for the inept American response to the dreaded 'them' who operate outside Merca's glorious borders. The Chinese will just continue to point to their official figures and anyone from within their borders who dissents will not be heard from again.

 

[Rooboys Rool]

What are people's thoughts on herd immunity being a viable course of action? I read somewhere (don't recall where) that for herd immunity to be effective approximately 60% of the population would need to have had COVID-19 and recovered. To put that in perspective:

- Italy has a population of 60.4m. 60% of this is 36.24m. Currently has 163,000 cases. So would still need another 36 million people to get COVID-19 before effective herd immunity would be achieved.
- USA has a population of 331m. 60% is 198.6m. Has 615,000 cases. Still needs another 198 million cases for effective herd immunity.
- Spain would need another 28 million cases for herd immunity.
- UK would need another 40 million cases for herd immunity.

Using the US example, they are just 0.3% of the way towards having enough cases for effective herd immunity. And we've seen the issues already caused by that 0.3%. If cases were to rise into the millions, the death rate would increase significantly with millions not getting the required health care.

If that 60% figure is accurate, it makes herd immunity seem a fanciful solution. Anyone have a better idea of how herd immunity works / could be viable?

 

[GarnerSmash]

What are people's thoughts on herd immunity being a viable course of action? I read somewhere (don't recall where) that for herd immunity to be effective approximately 60% of the population would need to have had COVID-19 and recovered. To put that in perspective:

- Italy has a population of 60.4m. 60% of this is 36.24m. Currently has 163,000 cases. So would still need another 36 million people to get COVID-19 before effective herd immunity would be achieved.
- USA has a population of 331m. 60% is 198.6m. Has 615,000 cases. Still needs another 198 million cases for effective herd immunity.
- Spain would need another 28 million cases for herd immunity.
- UK would need another 40 million cases for herd immunity.

Using the US example, they are just 0.3% of the way towards having enough cases for effective herd immunity. And we've seen the issues already caused by that 0.3%. If cases were to rise into the millions, the death rate would increase significantly with millions not getting the required health care.

If that 60% figure is accurate, it makes herd immunity seem a fanciful solution. Anyone have a better idea of how herd immunity works / could be viable?

Its fanciful in that a swift implementation of this approach would cripple the medical system, leading to massive fatalities and the loss of a large portion of the medical staff who attend ICU COVID-19 patients. No government could rationally approve such an approach.

 

[Steamin Beamin]

They will if the US cut them off at the knees, which they’re more then capable of doing. China is a paper tiger compared to the US.

Lol you are seriously underestimating China's power.

 

[Steamin Beamin]

What are people's thoughts on herd immunity being a viable course of action? I read somewhere (don't recall where) that for herd immunity to be effective approximately 60% of the population would need to have had COVID-19 and recovered. To put that in perspective:

- Italy has a population of 60.4m. 60% of this is 36.24m. Currently has 163,000 cases. So would still need another 36 million people to get COVID-19 before effective herd immunity would be achieved.
- USA has a population of 331m. 60% is 198.6m. Has 615,000 cases. Still needs another 198 million cases for effective herd immunity.
- Spain would need another 28 million cases for herd immunity.
- UK would need another 40 million cases for herd immunity.

Using the US example, they are just 0.3% of the way towards having enough cases for effective herd immunity. And we've seen the issues already caused by that 0.3%. If cases were to rise into the millions, the death rate would increase significantly with millions not getting the required health care.

If that 60% figure is accurate, it makes herd immunity seem a fanciful solution. Anyone have a better idea of how herd immunity works / could be viable?

Factor in 2% death rate, that's effectively letting 1% of the population die.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Are you confident of any or all of those things tho?

And if you are I have to ask ... on what basis?

I would be a lot more confident if I knew how the program would be structured, who was responsible for oversight, whether the app permeated into other data areas and which organisations would have access to the information. i.e. Police to ONI. The volunteer basis is a good first step, but any involvement by the ASD is a concern.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Tasmania is the one to watch for.

 

[Val Keating]

Lol you are seriously underestimating China's power.

No I’m not. China has a lot of people but contribute $40M to the WHO and America contributes over $400M.

America’s defence budget is about $750B

China’s defence budget is about $146B


China can’t even shut down wet markets ffs

 

[D23D]

What are people's thoughts on herd immunity being a viable course of action? I read somewhere (don't recall where) that for herd immunity to be effective approximately 60% of the population would need to have had COVID-19 and recovered. To put that in perspective:

- Italy has a population of 60.4m. 60% of this is 36.24m. Currently has 163,000 cases. So would still need another 36 million people to get COVID-19 before effective herd immunity would be achieved.
- USA has a population of 331m. 60% is 198.6m. Has 615,000 cases. Still needs another 198 million cases for effective herd immunity.
- Spain would need another 28 million cases for herd immunity.
- UK would need another 40 million cases for herd immunity.

Using the US example, they are just 0.3% of the way towards having enough cases for effective herd immunity. And we've seen the issues already caused by that 0.3%. If cases were to rise into the millions, the death rate would increase significantly with millions not getting the required health care.

If that 60% figure is accurate, it makes herd immunity seem a fanciful solution. Anyone have a better idea of how herd immunity works / could be viable?

The only way a herd immunity could work is if we strictly quarantined the elderly and vulnerable. That way the rest of us gain our immunity over a time and then their quarantine is over.
Just an idea, dunno if it would work but at least the rest of society could function

 

[ferball]

From my cynical point of view today, I’d say that the ship has well and truly sailed on this side of things. “They” can pretty much find out anything they want about you already. In this instance, they’re actually asking first.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

"They" can't if you don't want them too.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

"They" can't if you don't want them too.

The problem is people putting all their info on social media. It's free open-source intelligence for agencies like the NSA and co.

 

[ferball]

I would be a lot more confident if I knew how the program would be structured, who was responsible for oversight, whether the app permeated into other data areas and which organisations would have access to the information. i.e. Police to ONI. The volunteer basis is a good first step, but any involvement by the ASD is a concern.

View attachment 858294

I'll take that as a no.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I'll take that as a no.

I'm honestly grappling with the whole concept. I want to help my country beat this thing, but I feel individually uncomfortable given what I know about intelligence agencies (A Post-Graduate Certificate in Intelligence from Macquarie University) and the ASD's history.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Universities are going to be hard hit. A lot of their business model and programs are centered on catering to international students.

...........and academic bullshit.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Factor in 2% death rate, that's effectively letting 1% of the population die.

Certain to be a big one at the polls.

 

[Val Keating]

The Chinese won't accept liability for letting this thing get out of control and the US won't cut them off at the knees. No one is going to war over this. This 'outrage' is useful bluster to allow the Republicans to point blame for the inept American response to the dreaded 'them' who operate outside Merca's glorious borders. The Chinese will just continue to point to their official figures and anyone from within their borders who dissents will not be heard from again.

I agree that anyone within their boarders will never be heard from again. They’re a ruthless dictatorship after all. Doesn’t mean the rest of the world needs to except it.

I’m not suggesting going to war or anything crazy like that. Just cut them off till they start playing ball. The world can’t let them get away with what they’ve done. If they want a seat in the first world, bout time they live by first world standards

 

[ferball]

I'm honestly grappling with the whole concept. I want to help my country beat this thing, but I feel individually uncomfortable given what I know about intelligence agencies (A Post-Graduate Certificate in Intelligence from Macquarie University) and the ASD's history.

I'm impressed that a uni saw fit to certify you were intelligent.




I hear what you are saying. I get that lack of trust.


I have genuine questions about returning to business as usual, as you may have guessed. I've made no secret of my disdain for neo liberal economics or that our our "increased wealth" since the 80s as an illusion. I think that's about to become obvious to everyone.

So I'm not in that much of a hurry to get "back to work," it feels like feeding the same ravenous beast for little or no reward at the best of times.

Less so the social side of things. This is damaging our community, our kids aren't going to school or sport for example.

Bit the idea of needing permission from an app, and by extension government, is a bit much.

 

[The acurate one]

The Government wants to track us via our phones. And if enough of us agree, coronavirus restrictions could ease

The battle against coronavirus is going hi-tech, with Australians to be asked to download a phone app that will monitor their movements — but only with their express permission.

mobile.abc.net.au

F off, no way anyone should be monitored like this.

Well my "movements" are like clock work so happy to report in stating another successful launch

Edit; I did read on and," It is developing a mobile phone app with the private sector to help monitor Australians' daily interactions". Shit...........

 

[7577969923]

Are you confident of any or all of those things tho?

And if you are I have to ask ... on what basis?

No, I am not confident any of those things are in place. The first I heard that it was being considered was this morning and the discussion indicated it was going to be optional. If that was the case even with all those safeguards I wouldn't bother because it wouldn't be fit for purpose. If you want to use it as a public health tool to fight the potential outbreaks of Covid19 it has to be whole of the population in my opinion.
We may not like the way they do this kind of thing in China but we can't deny the effectiveness with which they have deployed it.

 

[Val Keating]

No, I am not confident any of those things are in place. The first I heard that it was being considered was this morning and the discussion indicated it was going to be optional. If that was the case even with all those safeguards I wouldn't bother because it wouldn't be fit for purpose. If you want to use it as a public health tool to fight the potential outbreaks of Covid19 it has to be whole of the population in my opinion.
We may not like the way they do this kind of thing in China but we can't deny the effectiveness with which they have deployed it.

You could always move there

 

[7577969923]

I miss gym. Been doing workouts from home but it just ain't the same.

I miss the pub. Been drinking at home but it just ain't the same.

 

[7577969923]

You could always move there

I have spent a bit of time up there and could live there for a while. A lot of the places around the world I have been to I would say the same, but only in the context of knowing I could come back to Australia. We are extremely lucky to live in this country.