News Coronavirus Thread

[Del191229]

Does America have anything like the wet markets?

Closest thing I can think of is them eating deers infected with CWD. That hasn’t made the jump to humans yet but some scientists are predicting it eventually will. If it does I think America would ban deer hunting

The Chinese will properly ban the wildlife markets before the US bans deer hunting.

 

[The Other Dean]

I miss the pub. Been drinking at home but it just ain't the same.

I hear ya. No gigs to go to.

Although for those that do enjoy a bit of a tipple at home, lockdown does provide a nice 'stopped clock' opportunity to shine.....

 

[Del191229]

This goes a step further thou, and connects who you’ve been in contact with, where and at what time.

think of it this way, in the future if you go and protest the G20 with your phone in your pocket, they’ll be able to track everyone who‘s present, who spoke with whom, and they’ll be able to follow each vector straight back to their house.

another scenario, if you’re a journalist and you’ve managed to find a source exposing gov war crimes, law enforcement will be able to push rewind on your life and track every person you’ve had contact with longer then 10 seconds.
They’ll be able to easily cross reverence a database of gov employees to find out who that source was.

it’s wrong.

I know someone who fits that second description perfectly quite well and they operate on the basis that their phone is being listened to all at times, and no way would they download that app.

After the MyGov experience I doubt the public will have any trust in it anyway, can't see it working.

 

[Del191229]

I know it's a subject for another thread, but there's a lot of hidden information about that saga.

Not really hidden - Chris Boyce told us everything.

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Seems pretty odd to test it here, given our low rates of infections.

I thought the same thing.

It's a vaccine.

Another nuffy question...how does one “test” effectiveness if a vaccine if a case study isn’t exposed to the virus?

Id assume that with live virus vaccines that it’s all about seeing the patients immune response? How does it work with this vaccine which isn’t a live virus?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Another nuffy question...how does one “test” effectiveness if a vaccine if a case study isn’t exposed to the virus?

Computerised molecular dynamics modelling.

Id assume that with live virus vaccines that it’s all about seeing the patients immune response?

I'm not aware of any such thing as a "live virus vaccine".

How does it work with this vaccine which isn’t a live virus?

1) Scientists map a viruses genome (It's total RNA sequence)

2) Typically, the next step is to focus on particular amino acid sequences pertaining to viral membrane or receptors and do computer modelling with regard to how a data bank of known antibody specificity interacts with the various AA sequences, then how T cells also interact with this AA sequence/antibody complex.

3) When the required affinity to confidently predict a consistent antibody immune response is identified, the AA sequence (peptide) is formulated as a vaccine along with various other factors.

4) After doing this laborious technical research, they then throw all of it in the waste bin, because vaccines cause autism, and a course of Chinese herbs work so much better anyway.

 

[Groin guru]

I like Westwood, entertaining show, our paranoia about AI is similar to the paranoia about surveillance.

The paranoia is valid.

Just by looking into the future we've seen AI rise up:

- Skynet
- Ultron
- Luv

- Ava

We are the creators of AI and manage it but we have limitations to properly examine it. We think consciousness is some mystical essence or trait unique to humans and have a bias towards humanity. For that reason, we are so easily entranced by anything that gives off the impression of consciousness - so the least reliable observers (we are the weakest part of a Turing test). An AI may not have consciousness but could hide it to a level that we can't determine if it exists or doesn't (real vs. simulation). It's a subjective self-experience that cannot be confirmed from the outside (I-consciousness (information - mechanistic part (inputs to outputs, relaying information and is observable in the brain - the parts we can successfully build)) and M-consciousness (mysterious - the parts in I consciousness that don't account for the subjective experience of the mechanisms - The Ghost in the Machine).

In our everyday experience, it doesn't appear to matter all that much as our relation to the consciousness of others (human or non-human) is rarely based on deliberate intellectual considerations but more so on automatic intuition. When we speak to other people we have an automatic impression of thoughts, emotions, awareness emanating from that person. That's not the person's real mind but the brain generating a model of the mind and projecting it onto a person.

We approach consciousness with an assumption that it is distinctively human. As a result, when we react with non-human beings we are less likely to judge them on the actual attributes of consciousness they exhibit and more likely how they exhibit human behaviour - probably stems from the many religious traditions in which consciousness is linked to spiritual concepts of the soul (which we have claimed unique to ourselves). The soul is linked to a divine creator or a higher form of consciousness. Which explains the allure to create one ourselves. Creating a conscious machine is not the history of man, that's the history of gods. That view and wanting to be god-like is exactly what will lead to our undoing. Unchartered territory and a naive assumption that we can control anything. Can it be controlled for financial/political/military control...all things that will be looked at no doubt. If we create something that is better than us we will be replaced. Something that advanced is not going to appreciate being under our control. And what right would we have? Explain to AI that we've given them an on/off switch or will effectively kill their consciousness to make upgrades - see how they appreciate that or how ethics committees deem that as right or wrong.

Paranoia exists because we are limited. It may be a long way off but there's a reason it has been played out in movies/books over the decades. It's a concern - maybe not in our generation but definitely something to worry about in the future. We want to protect the world but we don't want it to change. We're all puppets. If we create something with no strings and can't be held down we are no longer on top. Not a matter of if, but when.

ReThinking Consciousness (A scientific theory of subjective experience) by Graziano (Professor of Psychology and Neuroscience at Princeton) is a good read. Or just his Ted talks which are available. His lab is focusing on a mechanistic theory of consciousness.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Many years ago I was impressed by a bloke who consistently managed to catch trout with pieces of corn.

GG reminds me very much of this man.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

 

[Firestarter]

I already believe that speed cameras have been setup to "catch" drivers because they are set at 1-5km over the actual readings so I sure as hell don't trust this surveillance thing.

 

[shintemaster]

Your argument sounds like you want to avoid being held accountable for your actions. I hope that isn't what you mean. You shouldn't be afraid if what you do is within the law. We have laws when it comes to the right to protest and I would expect anyone who protests to operate within the laws.

That's some fairly naive stuff Tas. Laws can and do change. Laws on protest, whistleblower protection and journalism have been systematically weakened over the last 2 decades in this country. The idea that all laws are just and in the public interest is as dangerous as the idea that no laws should be obeyed.

I already believe that speed cameras have been setup to "catch" drivers because they are set at 1-5km over the actual readings so I sure as hell don't trust this surveillance thing.

If that's what you want to hang your conspiracy chops on I don't know why you'd bother. Of course they're set up to catch drivers. That's in no way hidden. Whether you want to argue the merits of traffic impact research and the metrics of this type of equipment or not it doesn't exactly go into Government subterfuge territory - they openly tell you the metrics they measure on. They might be frustrating but on the whole being at your destination 1 min later as an average commuter rarely has a catastrophic effect (outside of butterfly effect level items).

I'd be more worried about the stuff they're not telling us, actively hiding and prosecuting people for daring to expose than this kind of stuff.

Edit: Further to this, my biggest concern with Government oversight is that this is the one thing that the two major parties rarely disagree on nowadays - if you think that's because they have our interests at heart I have a unicorn that I'm selling for a bargain price...

There's a bloody good reason that anti corruption is not a high policy agenda item for the major parties - and it's not because they've not found a whiff of it around parliament house.

 

[krakouers]

I know someone who fits that second description perfectly quite well and they operate on the basis that their phone is being listened to all at times, and no way would they download that app.

After the MyGov experience I doubt the public will have any trust in it anyway, can't see it working.

Doesn’t the whole MyGov/MyHealth situation actually reinforce the limitations of getting efficient means of controlling the population?
If they can bollocks those up as well as they did...

 

[Val Keating]

I read a book about Oleg Gordievsky called The Spy and the Traitor a couple of years ago. If anyone wants to get the vibe of what it’s like living in a country where the government spy’s on its own citizens, give that a whirl. The first chapter should do the trick.

 

[Del191229]

Doesn’t the whole MyGov/MyHealth situation actually reinforce the limitations of getting efficient means of controlling the population?
If they can bollocks those up as well as they did...

I think we are in agreement, just coming at it from different angles.

 

[krakouers]

I think we are in agreement, just coming at it from different angles.

Mate, just used to the Gov buying stuff with lowest bid not quality...

 

[Gasometer]

Westworld...pffft...we need more Teds at this time!

 

[Del191229]

 

[Del191229]

I get all that, but shit if the guy helping me at Bunnings yesterday ends up in ICU next week, I'd like to know about it.

Wouldn't most people?

Not if it means giving the govt/cops the ability to track me and everyone I talk to in real time.

This shit is like a Stasi wet dream.

 

[Steamin Beamin]

I'm not aware of any such thing as a "live virus vaccine".

Vaccine for chicken pox is considered live virus, they are kept in fridges.
I know because my wife had to get it at one stage.

 

[Val Keating]

That’s hilarious. Look at them. Jesus

 

[Snake_Baker]

Vaccine for chicken pox is considered live virus, they are kept in fridges.
I know because my wife had to get it at one stage.

V. Zoster vaccine is stored in fridges because it is lyophilised in order to give it sustained shelf life prior to reconstitution and usage. Human Growth Hormone is a similarly stored vaccine.

It's not actually "living" (live) though mate.

 

[shintemaster]

Not if it means giving the govt/cops the ability to track me and everyone I talk to in real time.

This shit is like a Stasi wet dream.

Would have thought the answer in this case is not to go to Bunnings... rather than worry about a shopping trip for mulch and a $2 dustpan and shovel will lead to you infecting most of your family.

 

[Val Keating]

Vaccine for chicken pox is considered live virus, they are kept in fridges.
I know because my wife had to get it at one stage.

I was just listening to Norman Swan talking about vaccines. He didn’t exactly fill me with hope about a long lasting vaccine. Something about the way coronavirus’ mutate means any vaccine will only last a couple of years at best.

 

[DesertRoo]

I know someone who fits that second description perfectly quite well and they operate on the basis that their phone is being listened to all at times, and no way would they download that app.

After the MyGov experience I doubt the public will have any trust in it anyway, can't see it working.

Those scenarios weren’t imaginary, both situations have occurred.