Coronial Inquest of Shane Tuck

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Shane Tuck’s widow has suggested that Shane wasn’t properly treated or managed for concussion during his AFL career.

Shane tragically took his own life and the autopsy discovered he had CTE.

The coroner is saying they don’t see it as their job to apportion blame in this tragic event but is more interested to see how concussion is currently managed in sport.

So, should the coroner be looking more deeply at how Shane was treated or do we consider looking towards the future treatment and management of concussion to be more acceptable?

To me, we should be looking deeply at the case of Shane Tuck as to what can be learnt from it and then incorporating this in future concussion treatment and management processes.

Certainly it can’t be ignored though if there were mistakes which must be learnt from.

 
Depends what she means by properly treated and managed - if it's by the standards and protocols of the time, then I think it makes sense for the coroner to investigate as it sounds like some people need to be held accountable.

But if it's based on what we have learned and are continuing to learn about concussions, then I don't think it's right to try and apportion blame to people operating under the system at that time, and the coroner is right to focus on future learnings.
 

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CTE will completely change the nature of contact sports in the professional arena

I love footy and once fiercely opposed watering down the physical nature. However CTE is a bigger issue than footy and the game needs to evolve with medicine and science.
 
Apr 23, 2016
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Shane Tuck’s widow has suggested that Shane wasn’t properly treated or managed for concussion during his AFL career.

Shane tragically took his own life and the autopsy discovered he had CTE.

The coroner is saying they don’t see it as their job to apportion blame in this tragic event but is more interested to see how concussion is currently managed in sport.

So, should the coroner be looking more deeply at how Shane was treated or do we consider looking towards the future treatment and management of concussion to be more acceptable?

To me, we should be looking deeply at the case of Shane Tuck as to what can be learnt from it and then incorporating this in future concussion treatment and management processes.

Certainly it can’t be ignored though if there were mistakes which must be learnt from.


I'd say both are relevant.

Was Tuck managed appropriately according to the knowledge and medical practices of the time? If not, then the club bears some liability for that.

What we know about concussion and CTE has jumped enormously even over the last 5 years, so the management and treatment today are vastly different, and I'm quite sure we can learn from every case to help improve it moving forward.

Cases like Tuck are exactly why the AFL is going so hard on high contact now, and why the AFL supporting public shouldn't be dramatically bemoaning the watering down of contact in the AFL or glorifying past eras when blokes got smashed in the head all the time. These guys are people, and every care should be taken to ensure that whilst they're engaging in a very physical, high contact sport, that it's done so in a way that helps protect them from unreasonable contact and head injury.
 

Osho

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He was such a physical and in-hard player, I loved watching it, now realise what a terrible pleasure it is.

Tuck's wife is asking the questions I would ask. Tige's defending themselves is fine too. I would also ask whether his boxing career was also health managed properly. As a spouse / close friend I would be anxiously replaying the past, did I notice anything and not raise a question? Let questions be asked, and answered. I think that many past errors were made in ignorance, and also think there may have been cases where signs were ignored and authorities and clubs were not cautious enough.

The game will be undergoing more change in time, it's inevitable, that preseason trial noncontact AFL game may be the future.
 

Ron The Bear

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Tuck last played eight years ago. Given the state of medical knowledge at the time, and that players invariably insist they are fine and want to play, it seems an impossible expectation for the coroner to determine if Tuck was improperly treated unless evidence exists that he was coerced into taking the field when he shouldn't have. Even now it's impossible to determine absolutely whether a player is medically fit, the standard 12 days' rest being a precautionary measure.
 

Osho

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I reckon his two boxing knockouts did more damage than footy. If you watched him box you'd see he really didn't defend at all.
It was disturbing watching a man enter the ring knowing he should not have been in there.
 
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It surprised me that the coroner in response to Mrs Tuck said “i think you want me to apportion blame, i will not be doing that “ or words to that effect. What I dont get she wanted Tucks time at Richmond investigated. This does not mean that he has to apportion blame to RFC, AFL but investigate as to what transpired while playing footy that contributed to his CTE.
i thought that was the coroners role.
 
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Ron The Bear

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It surprised me that the coroner in response to Mrs Tuck said “i think you want me to apportion blame, i will not be doing that “ or words to that effect. What I dont get she wanted Tucks time at Richmond investigated. This does not mean that he has to apportion blame to RFC, AFL but investigate as to what transpired while playing footy that contributed to his CTE.
i thought that was the corners role.

The coroner's role is to establish facts, not culpability. However he can also accept information that might not be admissible in a court setting.

The background to the request is that Mrs Tuck's lawyer is launching a class action against the AFL involving a number of past players including John Platten and John Barnes.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...e/news-story/8846048114d9965571eb94b9225d3cbc (paywalled)
 
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Aug 14, 2011
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Depends what she means by properly treated and managed - if it's by the standards and protocols of the time, then I think it makes sense for the coroner to investigate as it sounds like some people need to be held accountable.

But if it's based on what we have learned and are continuing to learn about concussions, then I don't think it's right to try and apportion blame to people operating under the system at that time, and the coroner is right to focus on future learnings.

It helps to understand the role of the Coroner:
"The AFL can say what it likes, with respect, now as to how it's dealing with the issues of concussion but … that's cold comfort to the widow of Shane Tuck, who has lost a husband and a father."

Coroner says investigation not about blame
But Coroner Cain disagreed.

"I think what you're seeking to do is to invite me to apportion blame in relation to what occurred, and that's not my role, frankly," he said.

Under its jurisdiction, the coroner's job is to independently investigate deaths and use the evidence to make recommendations to try and prevent others from dying in a similar way.

"I'm not inclined to … embark on an exercise that involves me apportioning blame as you're seeking to have me do in relation to what Richmond Football Club should or shouldn't have done," Coroner Cain said.

"I think the greater utility in my roles comes from ensuring, to the extent that I can, that both for boxing and football, and I guess any other contact sports, that there are appropriate regimes in place to ensure that the current participants are given the greatest protection possible."

 

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Aug 14, 2011
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He was such a physical and in-hard player, I loved watching it, now realise what a terrible pleasure it is.

Tuck's wife is asking the questions I would ask. Tige's defending themselves is fine too. I would also ask whether his boxing career was also health managed properly. As a spouse / close friend I would be anxiously replaying the past, did I notice anything and not raise a question? Let questions be asked, and answered. I think that many past errors were made in ignorance, and also think there may have been cases where signs were ignored and authorities and clubs were not cautious enough.

The game will be undergoing more change in time, it's inevitable, that preseason trial noncontact AFL game may be the future.

You misunderstand the role of the Coroner, the path of the investigation & any need for anyone to defend themselves.
 
Feb 23, 2009
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CTE will completely change the nature of contact sports in the professional arena

I love footy and once fiercely opposed watering down the physical nature. However CTE is a bigger issue than footy and the game needs to evolve with medicine and science.
What changes would you suggest? Not just for footy but for all sports where there is risk of CTE?

At a certain point the risk is taken on by the participant. You can risk permanent injury or worse in many sports and activities. People choose to do them out of their own free will.
 
Feb 23, 2009
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"Under its jurisdiction, the coroner's job is to independently investigate deaths and use the evidence to make recommendations to try and prevent others from dying in a similar way."

Here's where it gets grey. Correlation and causation, did Tuck take his life due to the impact of CTE or for other reasons? Did it contribute or did it not?
Tuck also took part in boxing, how much did that impact his CTE?

Of course an investigation to better make decisions and recommendations is always welcomed and warranted, but I'm not sure this case will provide clear answers or evidence.
 
What changes would you suggest? Not just for footy but for all sports where there is risk of CTE?

At a certain point the risk is taken on by the participant. You can risk permanent injury or worse in many sports and activities. People choose to do them out of their own free will.
You might be able to argue that now but even during Tuck's career there were no such thing as concussion protocols until maybe his last year or two and little awareness about CTE. It doesn't take a genius to hazard a guess that for the vast majority of it's existence player welfare has been compromised in the name of results and while the players may have willingly consented to this at the time, if it turns out their employers were aware of the risk at the time and continued to put them in a risky situation then they must be held at least partially liable for the consequences.
 
Feb 23, 2009
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You might be able to argue that now but even during Tuck's career there were no such thing as concussion protocols until maybe his last year or two and little awareness about CTE. It doesn't take a genius to hazard a guess that for the vast majority of it's existence player welfare has been compromised in the name of results and while the players may have willingly consented to this at the time, if it turns out their employers were aware of the risk at the time and continued to put them in a risky situation then they must be held at least partially liable for the consequences.
I reckon it's really hard to go back and pass blame though. If I recall correctly back in those days there was no such thing as being subbed out for concussion. I seem to remember players returning to the field after being knocked out.

We learn from that obviously, but I'm not sure what we can retrospectively do, that was the norm at the time.
 
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You might be able to argue that now but even during Tuck's career there were no such thing as concussion protocols until maybe his last year or two and little awareness about CTE. It doesn't take a genius to hazard a guess that for the vast majority of it's existence player welfare has been compromised in the name of results and while the players may have willingly consented to this at the time, if it turns out their employers were aware of the risk at the time and continued to put them in a risky situation then they must be held at least partially liable for the consequences.

Are you suggesting that is the role of the Coroner?

"I'm not inclined to … embark on an exercise that involves me apportioning blame as you're seeking to have me do in relation to what Richmond Football Club should or shouldn't have done," Coroner Cain said.

 
This strikes me as verging on improper use of the Coronial Court services. The widow is looking to sue someone - Richmond FC - and she wants the coroner to help her do that.
 
This strikes me as verging on improper use of the Coronial Court services. The widow is looking to sue someone - Richmond FC - and she wants the coroner to help her do that.
The Coroner investigates all reportable deaths of which Tuck's was one. Nothing at all unusual or inappropriate about this.
 

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