Opinion Could Ainsworth play a subtly important role in finals?

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BlueandGoldforever

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I think if he fills the gatorade and water bottles with efficiency during the match, that could have a significant impact on whether we win or not, and could be the start of a new career.
 

WCErevival

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I've got a feeling our list management is going to be sucked into the 'roles' he's done on a B grade crab like Jones or slowing down a midget like Caleb Daniel.

He's not AFL quality. An improvement in his past couple games as a tagger doesn't suddenly gift him a 2 year extension, that's ridiculous.

A tagger is the least important role you consider on your list. Any of our young mid depth (O'Neil) could do the roll if required.



Keeping Ainsworth because we "need" to have a tagger on the list, just no.
It worked for Hutchings
 

Dark Sharks

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It worked for Hutchings

Hutchings was a better player than Ainsworth for starters, and he certainly wasn't a gun by any stretch.


Horses for courses. Hutchings made a career out of tagging due to the fact our midfield was always worse than everyone else's and it was the only real way to be competitive. Trying to nullify the oppositions best players.

Our midfield now with Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Gaff, Sheed and support from Redden isn't as garbage as it once was. We want to continue to be proactive.


Hence why i don't think Hutchings, or any tagger should be in our list plans to be honest :shrug:
 

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FreeTK

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Hutchings was a better player than Ainsworth for starters, and he certainly wasn't a gun by any stretch.


Horses for courses. Hutchings made a career out of tagging due to the fact our midfield was always worse than everyone else's and it was the only real way to be competitive. Trying to nullify the oppositions best players.

Our midfield now with Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Gaff, Sheed and support from Redden isn't as garbage as it once was. We want to continue to be proactive.


Hence why i don't think Hutchings, or any tagger should be in our list plans to be honest :shrug:
That's true when everyone is fit and available.

Right up until the last game of 2019 we had Hutching AND Masten in the same midfield. Adding Kelly and delisting Masten improves our mids dramatically in terms of quality, but not depth.

What if one or two of those listed players are out? In the short term we have very little depth beyond B22 mids.

That is why we find ourselves with either Hutching or Ainsworth in the team for a final this Saturday even though we have just one out from our B22 mids.

Having Ainsworth or Hutchings on the list to be able to come in and tag if we are missing one or two mids is just good list management.
 

Dark Sharks

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That is why we find ourselves with either Hutching or Ainsworth in the team for a final this Saturday even though we have just one out from our B22 mids.

Having Ainsworth or Hutchings on the list to be able to come in and tag if we are missing one or two mids is just good list management.

Not necessarily. I'm tipping both won't be playing vs Collingwood, but we'll know on Friday.

As far as good list management goes, we have Redden. We have any other young mid, like O'Neil to come in and do a tagging job if need be.

Tagging is one of those fairly common methods of exposing young midfielders to AFL football.


The difference is that O'Neil, with his quick hands, neat skills, good pace and toughness actually LOOKS like he is comfortable at this level. Ainsworth does not.
 

amazingjoshy

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Ainsworth's been our first choice mid when the main guys are out, he isn't close to being delisted this year, no matter how much posters on here hate his ball drop.
 

FreeTK

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Not necessarily. I'm tipping both won't be playing vs Collingwood, but we'll know on Friday.

As far as good list management goes, we have Redden. We have any other young mid, like O'Neil to come in and do a tagging job if need be.

Tagging is one of those fairly common methods of exposing young midfielders to AFL football.


The difference is that O'Neil, with his quick hands, neat skills, good pace and toughness actually LOOKS like he is comfortable at this level. Ainsworth does not.
It sounds like your thoughts is taggers are just failed mids. Not entirely sure I agree with your POV. Lots of mids haven't cut it based on what they do ball in hand, not all of them go on to become successful taggers.

Few teams tag, and the ones that do have an allocated tagger (De Boer/Greenwood/Hutchings) rather than giving the role to someone on the outside breaking in to the team.

I'm not a huge Hutchings fan, but given how many times his name has come out Simmo's mouth this last week and a half I wouldn't be surprised to see him named in the team.

6 months ago, I would have delisted both Hutch and BrAins. Now that we have seen the gap between our starting mids and the rest that had to fill in for them, I think it is prudent to keep one of them, and personally I would lean towards BrAins, given his age, physical attributes and possibility for future development.
 

Chris_6678

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With Shuey and Redden coming in i can see us wanting to play Duggan in there still so he can play a run with role that Yeo would do sometimes instead of using a designated tagger in Hutchings or using Ainsworth.

Hutchings is injury prone at the moment and Ainsworth doesn't have the experience to tag a mid during finals.
 

Dark Sharks

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It sounds like your thoughts is taggers are just failed mids. Not entirely sure I agree with your POV. Lots of mids haven't cut it based on what they do ball in hand, not all of them go on to become successful taggers.

Few teams tag, and the ones that do have an allocated tagger (De Boer/Greenwood/Hutchings) rather than giving the role to someone on the outside breaking in to the team.

I'm not a huge Hutchings fan, but given how many times his name has come out Simmo's mouth this last week and a half I wouldn't be surprised to see him named in the team.

6 months ago, I would have delisted both Hutch and BrAins. Now that we have seen the gap between our starting mids and the rest that had to fill in for them, I think it is prudent to keep one of them, and personally I would lean towards BrAins, given his age, physical attributes and possibility for future development.

Absolutely i see them as failed mids. A tagger is generally a player with low skill or ability, who is disciplined, tough and fit.

Taggers are not "good" players at all. Are they valuable? Yes at times, absolutely.

But would Hutchings be in our team as a mid if he wasn't tagging? No he would not. In fact games where he hasn't tagged he's been a total liability.



There's few full time lockdown taggers these days. Struggling teams use them more than top tier teams.

GWS have Deboar. Blues have Curnow. Adelaide use Keys. When they aren't tagging these players are no good.


I think these days the game is moving more and more away from Taggers. Take Geelong for instance. If a player is running amok on them they might put a Guthrie, or a Menegola on them to slow their influence.

Guthrie just made the AA team, and Menegola SHOULD have made the team as a wingman as well. They are both talented players who have many other strings to their bow, they are not full time low skilled taggers.

Redden is in the same boat. Greenwood is in the same boat with Fold Coast. Melbourne might use a Vandenberg to slow someone. Brisbane use a Robinson. Steele has broken through and is his teams best mid. And he still curtails someone when he has to.

Most, if not all of these players are still in their teams best 22 when they aren't tagging. It's a week to week thing, or a mid match call the coaches make.



Rolling out this low skilled, sub standard quality player to come in and tag every week is just sh*t IMO.
 

FreeTK

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Absolutely i see them as failed mids. A tagger is generally a player with low skill or ability, who is disciplined, tough and fit.

Taggers are not "good" players at all. Are they valuable? Yes at times, absolutely.

But would Hutchings be in our team as a mid if he wasn't tagging? No he would not. In fact games where he hasn't tagged he's been a total liability.



There's few full time lockdown taggers these days. Struggling teams use them more than top tier teams.

GWS have Deboar. Blues have Curnow. Adelaide use Keys. When they aren't tagging these players are no good.


I think these days the game is moving more and more away from Taggers. Take Geelong for instance. If a player is running amok on them they might put a Guthrie, or a Menegola on them to slow their influence.

Guthrie just made the AA team, and Menegola SHOULD have made the team as a wingman as well. They are both talented players who have many other strings to their bow, they are not full time low skilled taggers.

Redden is in the same boat. Greenwood is in the same boat with Fold Coast. Melbourne might use a Vandenberg to slow someone. Brisbane use a Robinson. Steele has broken through and is his teams best mid. And he still curtails someone when he has to.

Most, if not all of these players are still in their teams best 22 when they aren't tagging. It's a week to week thing, or a mid match call the coaches make.



Rolling out this low skilled, sub standard quality player to come in and tag every week is just sh*t IMO.
I think we essentially agree.

Yes, taggers are failed mids.

Not all failed mids are good taggers.

If you choose to have a tagger on your list, they are designated players on your list who do that role because they have a set of attributes that make them suitable for the role not simply because they couldn't cut the mustard.

If we had a Menegola or Guthrie type on our list behind our starting midfield, we could easily delist both Ainsworth and Hutchings, but we can't because we don't. That is simply a truism.

In the absence of any real midfield depth or collateral to recruit one to the club this trade period, one of Hutchings/Ainsworth should stay on the list for the primary purpose of tagging. We shouldn't delist both as it is just cutting for the sake of cutting without many prospects immediately available to replace them. Ainsworth should get at least a 12 month extension on his deal, and then we can see where we are at with XON/Foley/MON in 12 months time.
 
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Kwality

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With Shuey and Redden coming in i can see us wanting to play Duggan in there still so he can play a run with role that Yeo would do sometimes instead of using a designated tagger in Hutchings or using Ainsworth.

Hutchings is injury prone at the moment and Ainsworth doesn't have the experience to tag a mid during finals.
Duggan into the midfield has been a long time coming - the Yeo comparison is spot on.
Cripps back, will be a part of the mids rotation.

IF there is a specific tag job I'd go with a fit Hutchings, otherwise Ainsworth would be in my 22.
 

THE A5

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Duggan into the midfield has been a long time coming - the Yeo comparison is spot on.
Cripps back, will be a part of the mids rotation.

IF there is a specific tag job I'd go with a fit Hutchings, otherwise Ainsworth would be in my 22.
I personally don't see Yeo and Duggan being similar. I love Duggo but he is nowhere near contested player as Yeoy ( at any stage of his career) and he lacks both the the explosiveness and power that enable Yeo to burst through congestion and tackles. Duggans style is a lot of different, he's always on the move and he hits the ball (or receives it) at speed, which in turn allows him to break away from congestion.


Yeo's defensive work has always been elite and Duggans not so much.


That said, I love Duggan to the midfield idea but just don't see the comparison that posters on here post.
 

Dark Sharks

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Duggan has half as much athleticism and agility as Yeo. Doesn't have the explosiveness or marking ability either.

Other than being half back flankers come mids (barely mid in Duggans case), i'm not seeing a huge resemblance either TBH.



Odd comparison.
 

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bUCKET__

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The versatility of our small defenders will surely mean that Ainsworth won't be getting a game these finals. We know that Duggan has room to grow as a full-time mid. Cole and Nelson have played a bit of wing, Cole showing he can sneak forward, and Nelson is one of our best lockdown players should we require a tagger. All can play different roles in the middle and down back, depending on the state of the game.
 

Chris_6678

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Duggan doesn't need to have the explosiveness of Yeo as we have Shuey and Kelly + Nic Nat who can do that in the middle. What we need is the mongrel from Yeo which Duggan has in spades and that is important come finals.

Hutchings played a role in 2018 and that role was to shut Sidebottom down and the fact he isn't playing he isn't needed. IF the tag doesn't work then Hutchings could be a liability as a mid rotation. Rather we used the versility of Cole/Nelson to play as mid rotation if we need too and its something we have done a fair bit this year. We could even use Nelson in a negating role if needed.
 

Kwality

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I personally don't see Yeo and Duggan being similar. I love Duggo but he is nowhere near contested player as Yeoy ( at any stage of his career) and he lacks both the the explosiveness and power that enable Yeo to burst through congestion and tackles. Duggans style is a lot of different, he's always on the move and he hits the ball (or receives it) at speed, which in turn allows him to break away from congestion.


Yeo's defensive work has always been elite and Duggans not so much.


That said, I love Duggan to the midfield idea but just don't see the comparison that posters on here post.
Yeo has 2 AAs, so the bar is set high for Duggan. Yeo's break out year was 2017. The comparison is there, Duggan has not had a break out year YET ??
 

THE A5

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Yeo has 2 AAs, so the bar is set high for Duggan. Yeo's break out year was 2017. The comparison is there, Duggan has not had a break out year YET ??
Duggan could win b2b bronlows but he won’t be a Yeo. His physical/athletic and general playing traits are different.

Once again not a knock on him at all. I like that’s he’s showing that flexibility as it gives Simmo and the team more options. Say TK gets tagged, then we can send Kelly forward, Waterman into defence and Duggan into the guts.
 

campaigner___

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I think Ainsworth has put on a bit of muscle judging by the most recent training shots. Not that it will help his sh*t poor disposal, lack of speed, turnovers and decision making.
 

wce4premiership

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It's not Duggan's attributes that are similar to Yeo, just the fight for the footy.

I don't think anyone really compares the two, but it has been mentioned that he brings a defensive edge that is missing without Yeo, which I can sort of see. He just looks like he is having fun hunting the ball and bowling people over where possible.

Very different players, but Duggan can try minimise the loss of Yeo. Nobody on our list is close to Yeo for athleticism. Sheppard arguably the closest (top speed, great vertical leap) but wouldn't be as strong when being tackled.
 

Shaks

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I think Ainsworth has put on a bit of muscle judging by the most recent training shots. Not that it will help his sh*t poor disposal, lack of speed, turnovers and decision making.
If I had to choose between Hutchings and Ainsworth it would be Hutchings for finals. He's played two GF'S from memory. I would think hardened bodies are needed in finals.
 

Astro7

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Well, Brains has been chosen for finals, so you'd think there'd be a good reason for that, be it an educated inclusion or a calculated risk..
His HTB moments have been frustrating, but many good players also get caught HTB on a regular basis. He's actually done some good things in play and seems to be improving which is all you can ask from a young player.
What I like about him is he cracks in and gives it a go against all popularity polls, just hope he can adjust to finals intensity..
 
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