Could Collingwood follow Richmond and the Bulldogs

[RobbieGray17]

Quite clearly they have underperformed, they lost a lot of competitive games last season and don't seem too far off the mark. They appear to be in a similar frame to Richmond in 2016 with a crap game plan, crap implementation and not getting the best out of the team. Their list is relatively robust and have a number of excellent players.

The question is: do you think they can surprise and win the flag?

 

[Fadge]

I'd be flabbergasted if they didn't win next year's flag.

 

[blitzer]

I can't see where they lose a game.

In seriousness - there is some similarities to those lists and certainly making finals is not out of the question. I can't see a flag in their current list though. I do think that if Elliot ever stayed fit for longer than 2 minutes it would completely transform that forward line into something pretty good which would be well supported by their excellent midfield.

 

[si tacuisses]

Prior to Richmond doing it, I would have said "never". No chance.

But if Hardwick can suddenly turn out to be a decent coach, so can Buckley.

 

[JayJ20]

I think they can, but they'd need more to go right than Richmond to win it. They certainly have the midfield. They'd need to restructure their forwardline like Richmond did. Ultimately, I think their defence will stop them from reaching Richmond's heights. Richmond have an elite defence. Collingwood don't have that level of quality. Richmond's top end is also stronger than Collingwood's.

 

[LB#16]

Bulldogs fully rebuilt and played finals the year before their flag. Richmond played finals for years before dropping down and having a ‘reality check’ year in 2016, then they got it together and went all the way.

Collingwood have been flailing for years, I can’t see the similarity.

 

[Deep]

Poll needs a “*, I hope not” option.

 

[aussierulesrules]

They won 8 of the 10 games that Daniel Wells played for them last season, but just 1 of the 12 that he didn't play , so clearly if he manages to stay out there this year they'll be a big show!

On a slightly more serious note, there is a bit of a similarity between them and Richmond of last year, in that Collingwood have also had a pretty big overhaul of their coaching department, and are also apparently going about things very differently this preseason, so there's always the chance that things could click, and I particularly liked to hear that they want to play more to their strengths this year, which is what I would think everyone should be looking to do.

If in previous seasons they've been trying to be something they're not, it's no surprise they haven't gone that well.

The likelihood of them winning the flag is extremely small tho, especially with so few who look like being able to kick a decent number of goals, and the main two by far both missing a big chunk of the preseason.

 

[Dez!]

Prior to Richmond doing it, I would have said "never". No chance.

But if Hardwick can suddenly turn out to be a decent coach, so can Buckley.

Well that has no logic to it at all.

Between 2016 and 2017 Richmond actually made moves to improve their list both of which significantly contributed to 2017, Prestia and Caddy.

Between 2017 and 2018 Collingwood have stood still and didn't make any significant change to their list, next year they are going to be relying solely on internal growth which limits their improvement compared to other teams being proactive and getting proven talent or taking a risk on something to go with the internal growth.

Dogs took a risk on Boyd which paid off at the right time.
Richmond secured proven AFL level talent in Prestia/Caddy to go with their expectation of internal growth/improvement.

Collingwood just seem to be floating by and not doing anything to help out the likes of Darcy Moore who is supposed to be a key piece of their future, they haven't found any help for him nor do they even seem to be trying to find help. If they were waiting on someone like Tom Lynch to hit FA and hoping he'd be the guy to slot in next to Moore that's fine but in the short term at least find someone who can give Moore some protection.

*I'm aware you didn't insinuate you'd win the flag next year*

 

[si tacuisses]

Well that has no logic to it at all.

Between 2016 and 2017 Richmond actually made moves to improve their list both of which significantly contributed to 2017, Prestia and Caddy.

Between 2017 and 2018 Collingwood have stood still and didn't make any significant change to their list, next year they are going to be relying solely on internal growth which limits their improvement compared to other teams being proactive and getting proven talent or taking a risk on something to go with the internal growth.

Dogs took a risk on Boyd which paid off at the right time.
Richmond secured proven AFL level talent in Prestia/Caddy to go with their expectation of internal growth/improvement.

Collingwood just seem to be floating by and not doing anything to help out the likes of Darcy Moore who is supposed to be a key piece of their future, they haven't found any help for him nor do they even seem to be trying to find help. If they were waiting on someone like Tom Lynch to hit FA and hoping he'd be the guy to slot in next to Moore that's fine but in the short term at least find someone who can give Moore some protection.

*I'm aware you didn't insinuate you'd win the flag next year*

Yeah, there are other issues like an assessment of the list that are separate.

My point was just that from outside, everyone assumed Hardwick was no good. Just like we assume Buckley is no good. But then Hardwick turned out not to be a problem. So, since a lot of the arguments against Collingwood succeeding are about Buckley's abilities as coach, and since it seems pretty clear that we're all bad judges of who's a good coach, I'm more open now to the possibility that we can do well.

It's notable, IMO, that while they made no real list changes they did make a bunch of coaching changes (although perhaps not enough). So they identified a problem and tried to fix it, or so I would guess, just like Richmond did.

Of cpourse, Richmond might be better at identifying problems and fixing them than we are... (probably this is the case).

 

[Power Raid]

Personally I think the pies have a way to go in their rebuild but they are building nicely. Perhaps 2019 is when they will become a real force.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

Nah more likely to be Essendon. Tracking similar with making finals but not winning. Recruited some good players to add to a decent list.

 

[Joey longshadow]

Yeah, there are other issues like an assessment of the list that are separate.

My point was just that from outside, everyone assumed Hardwick was no good. Just like we assume Buckley is no good. But then Hardwick turned out not to be a problem. So, since a lot of the arguments against Collingwood succeeding are about Buckley's abilities as coach, and since it seems pretty clear that we're all bad judges of who's a good coach, I'm more open now to the possibility that we can do well.

It's notable, IMO, that while they made no real list changes they did make a bunch of coaching changes (although perhaps not enough). So they identified a problem and tried to fix it, or so I would guess, just like Richmond did.

Of cpourse, Richmond might be better at identifying problems and fixing them than we are... (probably this is the case).

Actually just to point out hardwick was a big part of the problem as admitted by himself. He went away identified his faults and changed his direction ...new game plan, new philosophy,new assistant coaches, Balme, and three very good inclusions to the team in the off season... It's a rare fella who can admit to himself he got it wrong and then change essentially himself... Hardwick managed to do that... I hope for collingwoods sake Buckley has that in him

 

[Bazza97]

I reckon Collingwood will at least improve but probably not enough to make the top 8. Can they win the flag? No I wouldn't think so. Can they improve enough to make the bottom half of the top 8? Yes, if a fair bit goes right they can potentially play finals next season but I think that's unlikely from where I see it atm.

 

[Big Cox 88]

I think Jack Watts is more likely to win a flag at Port than the wobbles winning one.

 

[demondavey]

I don't know about a flag, but I definitely think they can make the 8 and cause some headaches. They have a very strong core list albeit for a lack of KPF depth.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they made the 8, yet plenty of people on BF are conceding they don't have a good list at all .

 

[Shazza_]

Nope

Their list is poor compared to ours at the end of 2016. We then added Nank, Prestia and Caddy.

They have a poor list and haven’t added anyone good + they have one of the worst clueless coaches in the league. No chance of winning the flag

 

[Martyn_30_]

I don’t see any similarities. Richmond were terrible did a full rebuild gradually improved had one bad year then bounced back. The bulldogs become too old bottomed out brought in youth then got a better coach.

The only reason Collingwood would be considered as some sort of bolter is because they’re Collingwood, if North had the same list build they wouldn’t be talked up.


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[le dominateur]

Wow, the year is flying all along, 1st April already.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

If Richmond could do it is it really worth doing?

 

[Gavin Excell]

They won 8 of the 10 games that Daniel Wells played for them last season, but just 1 of the 12 that he didn't play , so clearly if he manages to stay out there this year they'll be a big show!

On a slightly more serious note, there is a bit of a similarity between them and Richmond of last year, in that Collingwood have also had a pretty big overhaul of their coaching department, and are also apparently going about things very differently this preseason, so there's always the chance that things could click, and I particularly liked to hear that they want to play more to their strengths this year, which is what I would think everyone should be looking to do.

If in previous seasons they've been trying to be something they're not, it's no surprise they haven't gone that well.

The likelihood of them winning the flag is extremely small tho, especially with so few who look like being able to kick a decent number of goals, and the main two by far both missing a big chunk of the preseason.

That stat on Wells interesting

 

[juss]

Looking at Collingwood’s list, they don’t have the top end talent of the Tigers. Martin and Rance are better than every player on their list and Riewoldt gives the Tigers a guns at both ends not mention Cotchin who was outstanding in the finals.

Maybe if Buckley had those 4 players, but he doesn’t have the same top shelf as the Tigers.

 

[ep2018]

Essendon will complete the poor downtrodden Vic team to win a flag hattrick if it happens again this year.

 

[captain cotch 9]

I don't see Buckley as the sort of person to take a big risk in regards to his game plan like Beverage or Hardwick did.

 

[TerryWallet]

Rather than possibly emulating Richmond or Bulldogs, i see Collingwood possibly emulating my Club at times over this century.

Deluded, pig-headed, sleepwalking their list into no mans land.

I'm not a Pies hater, i'm a rare Carlton fan who doesn't really hate Collingwood or Richmond. I save that for Essendon and Hawthorn . But as a witness of Carlton's demise, i see many similar traits at Collingwood. The place is pretty messy offield and onfield imho.