Could Essendon be big improvers

[H2F]

Essendon will finish bottom 4, get over it Bombers supporters. You have crapola kids, a senile coach, outdated strategies from your board!

You were the best not too long ago, but until you sack the board and replace Sheedy, you'll be duds.

 

[BlindTurn]

They will have one of the best spines in the business next year. Pretty easy to build a team around a good spine. You boys can fill in the blanks.

B: ?????? Michael ?????
HB: ?????? Fletcher ???????
C: ????? J.Johnson ??????
HF: Hird Lucas ?????
F: ????? Lloyd ?????
FOLL: Hille ????? ?????
INTER: ??????????????????????????????????????????


What team wouldnt love that just for a start. 10 premierships between these boys.

 

[OB1]

Essendon will finish bottom 4, get over it Bombers supporters. You have crapola kids, a senile coach, outdated strategies from your board!

You were the best not too long ago, but until you sack the board and replace Sheedy, you'll be duds.

Well I gotta give you points for at least coming up with something different. Over the last 2 years nearly eveyone including the bootstudder has been criticised by people here but I think this is the 1st time I've read an attack on the board. Did I miss something? Did we lose heaps of cash & are relocating to Tassie? What exactly are these outdated strategies you speak of?
Hey you can certainly have a go at our on-field performances over the last 2 years (even though we did finish above Hawthorn in 05) but I really don't think you can call for a spill of the board when off field we continue to be a success. Perhaps you believe the board should have ordered the players to tank from 02-05 in order to rape the draft? Fortunately our board doesn't work that way.

 

[bomberdude18 2]

They still lack quality pace. Dyson has it, but his skills are ordinary.
Johns is OK but again, I don't think he's capable of winning a game. Lloyd back will help, but I wouldn't think he'd be carving up defenders next year at the same time.
.

We do have quality pace coming into the team. Dyson, Stanton, Winderlich, Nash, Lovett, Lovett-Murray. Those blokes are very fast. Plus put Davey into the team, who'll probably get a couple of games, and Dempsey, and thats one lightning quick team. I wouldnt say Dysons skills are ordinary. He is a lovely penetrating kick of the ball, he just had to work on where he is kicking the ball to.

You dont know with Johns, because last season he was only 21, played a handful of games, and only had 1 pre-season after having 3 years off with injury. Increased endurance and musclurer endurance, as well as being able to consistently work on his skills will do a world of wonder.

 

[Slattery_20]

We do have quality pace coming into the team. Dyson, Stanton, Winderlich, Nash, Lovett, Lovett-Murray. Those blokes are very fast. Plus put Davey into the team, who'll probably get a couple of games, and Dempsey, and thats one lightning quick team. I wouldnt say Dysons skills are ordinary. He is a lovely penetrating kick of the ball, he just had to work on where he is kicking the ball to.

You dont know with Johns, because last season he was only 21, played a handful of games, and only had 1 pre-season after having 3 years off with injury. Increased endurance and musclurer endurance, as well as being able to consistently work on his skills will do a world of wonder.

I'd just love to see Dyson get more than 5 minutes a match, for more than two weeks in a row. He seemed to get better and better as he played more (probably confidence) - then he'd get dropped

 

[Bombersfc]

Yeah, you make some really good points there. Fletch, personally I don't think plays in a FB role the same as many others in the league, sorta more a drifter/counter attack role. That will only strengthen having Michael down there. I totally forgot about McPhee! Classy player, not a player I particularly like, but class nonetheless.
I don't rate Winderlich, and don't know much about Dempsey, but I think Dyson looks like a classy player, and Watson has looked good since he trimmed down.
I thought that Jetta was a forward? And Gumbleton a backman? Obviously either could change quite easily, but I've just noticed it repeated verbatim, and thought they played different possies. In the TAC Cup game I saw of Jetta, he was forward for sure.
Clearances. I had no idea you guys did so well, but obviously there was a massive break down somewhere in the chain, 'cos scoring goals or not, you lost so many games. Where was the issue? Back or forward. I think we've highlighted the returns this year should alleviate some issues, but I guess it's how the rest of the chess board is spread out that determines it eventually.
My big question mark remains the use of Lucas. No doubt, stellar season this year, but would he be as effective with Lloyd back around. More importantly, where do you put Johns if he's at CHF. I'd say, in a similar way, does Fletcher play CHB, generally directing play, with the addition of Michael at FB, and if so, does that mean Lucas stays in the forward line? Obviously a good problem to have, just as its finally nice at Hawthorn to not have some immediate names spring to mind for delistings!!

i think the main problem last year was that while our midfield did alri9ght clearance wise, our forward line was all wrong.

Like most games if lucas was on fire then we looked half decent coming out from defence. The problem is lucas is not quick and often relies on using quick bursts of energy where he can dominate but then he falls apart cause he is spent and then we just had no other option

eg- against richmond in the last quarter we were on fire with lucas dominating over bowden but after kicking like 4 he was soent and i remember the ball was coming in because watson had like 6 clearacnes in a row or something and lucas just couldnt go with the ball and just stayed there and nobody else could contest
almost the same thing with carlton when he had it all over lance and then was spent/ thornton dominated over him in the 2nd half and we looked like half the team

also our midfield last year was bad defensively and often just let the opposition pump it into our 50 way too easy
hence why fletcher's year should be pumped up even more
but that was all part of the learning curve
the problem is they are onyl still youngsters and at times just get lost in it all
again in the secong game against richmond i remeber bradley just getting owned by richo and we just let our confidence drop and had lost like 5 clearances ina row and hird stepped in and himself had like 6 ina row and we went in even at half time
it was those sort of things that cost us last year in the midfield
we got ppl who have the ability to do well but they need experiance to know what to do when the chips are down and know how to be mpre defensive on their opponents etc.

i too am interested to see where johns fits in now that gumbleton is a bomber
i mean a forward line of lucas, lloyd, hird, gumbleton and johns
i dunno too many big blokes though it looks bloody good on papaer
that one of the reasons i was keen on hansen because he has beena defender all his life i think and had a gun year this year at chb
but having said that in terms of skills and stuff ive heard that gumby is a better player
id imagine lucas should have a decent year again but his output just wont be as big cause our structure will not revolve around him but around lloyd like it always has
only this time we havea good support cast around him in lucas, hird etc. while last year johns missed most of it and was new
no gumby
hird played midfield and forward cause we needed him in both places and anyhow only played like 11 games for the year or sumthin

 

[ant555]

Essendon will finish bottom 4, get over it Bombers supporters. You have crapola kids, a senile coach, outdated strategies from your board!
You were the best not too long ago, but until you sack the board and replace Sheedy, you'll be duds.

Wow pretty insightfull. I guess you didnt notice we had a record profit this year despite winning only 3 games. Yes lets sack the board because they are doing a terrible job running the club

 

[shiva25]

Dyson, Lovett, Winderlich, Dempsey, now Jetta and Davey.

Yes they are all quick but theyve hardly proved they can play yet.When you can produce a list of players who are quick and can play then i will take you seriously

 

[dave_27]

Essendon will finish bottom 4, get over it Bombers supporters. You have crapola kids, a senile coach, outdated strategies from your board!

You were the best not too long ago, but until you sack the board and replace Sheedy, you'll be duds.

Thats a pretty pathetic comment to make regarding the board.

What would you know about how the Essendon board is run?

No credibility.

 

[don4eva]

Yes they are all quick but theyve hardly proved they can play yet.When you can produce a list of players who are quick and can play then i will take you seriously

They've all proved they can play bar Jetta and Davey, I don't know what players you're talking about, but these guys can definitely play. They just need consistency which will hopefully come with more game time.

 

[demoniac]

Lloyd and Michael will certainly improve the Dons. But by how far? I can't see them making the 8. Could finish anywhere between 9th and 16th.

Their recruiting has improved in recent years but the players that better recruting has bought to the club are still young and still need time to develop. Will they be able to make an impact before the end of the Hird, Fletcher, Lloyd, the semi professional Michael, Lucas era? That is the ultimate question for the Bombers. I think not. I doubt they can win a flag before Lloyd et al retire and if they don't they have to wait till they can rebuild. Granted they've already started but to lose the likes of Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher in close succession is going to hurt.

 

[Slattery_20]

Lloyd and Michael will certainly improve the Dons. But by how far? I can't see them making the 8. Could finish anywhere between 9th and 16th.

Their recruiting has improved in recent years but the players that better recruting has bought to the club are still young and still need time to develop. Will they be able to make an impact before the end of the Hird, Fletcher, Lloyd, the semi professional Michael, Lucas era? That is the ultimate question for the Bombers. I think not. I doubt they can win a flag before Lloyd et al retire and if they don't they have to wait till they can rebuild. Granted they've already started but to lose the likes of Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher in close succession is going to hurt.

Lloyd, Lucas and Michael will play on for a few years after Hird and Fletcher retire

 

[mcphee_is_a_gun]

Yes they are all quick but theyve hardly proved they can play yet.When you can produce a list of players who are quick and can play then i will take you seriously

Stanton?

 

[topdon]

Thats a pretty pathetic comment to make regarding the board.

What would you know about how the Essendon board is run?

Is that the same board the saw the club return a $2.5m profit from 15th??

 

[Bomber Man]

Essendon will improve massively on last year and should at least push for a spot in the 8, and continue to improve with the KP youth.

Lloyd back would have done it, Michael is a massive bonus as we've struggled at CHB since Wellman left and Fletcher can now move there, also allowing Lucas to stay settled at CHF. The forward line has always had the required potency.

The midfield has been Essendon's well documented weakness and has gone through major changes in the last 2 years. Watson, Stanton and Dyson will now be staple midfielders, Monfries and Lovett will play a HFF/midfield support role, and the Johnsons, McVeigh, McPhee and Heffernan will rotate through for added experience and body. Hille does need to hold up the ruck, Laycock and Ryder still need time.

Hird should hardly be seen in the middle instead providing leadership and silky skills forward and back as required. I think most of our pace will be seen on the flanks and wings (Dempsey, Winderlich, Jetta, Davey and Monfries, and Nash and Slattery) - we did show more zip in the last few rounds of 06 than recent seasons and hopefully that will continue, together with the more risk-taking style of game.

I am surprised at all the talk on posts about the team's age. The Johnsons, Lloyd and Lucas will all be 29 throughout the 07 season, only Hird, Fletcher and Camporeale are past 30 (Michael will pass 30 during the season). There is plenty of time for players like Johns, Bradley, Gumbleton, Lee, Laycock, Neagle and Ryder to develop into a KPP troop.

 

[ShanBoi]

Well done shedmainia, that is best post on this thread. Makes most of the non-believers look a tad silly. Cheers.

Uh, why's that? Because he quoted the age of your entire list?? Very insightful.

Essendons 'resurgance' is based on 20 million if's.

- If Lloyd returns from injury and has a significant impact
- If Hird can stay fit and on the field
- If JJ and MJ can find and maintain good form
- If McPhee can rediscover form
- If lovett and lovett murray can pull their bloody finger out
- If your young players can step up

These can all be bundled into one huge if.

If Essendon dont have another year like 2006

There are no real givens, other than the fact that Lloyd returns from injury. Nothing else is certain, and there is no reason to ASSUME that any of the above will come to fruition. It isnt magic. These things dont just happen. There was a reason for all of the above, and nobody wants to say how or why these issues will be remedied. THEY JUST WILL. It's a load of rubbish! Rubbish teams dont magically get better. They improve via changes in coaching, or hard work, or good recruitment.

As it stands, not a whole lot changes at bummer land. Idiot recruiting will see them pick up ANOTHER patchwork player. Yes mal michael is a great FB, but WTF is the point? You have a great FB of similar age. Why pick up another player who will retire at the same time? Why not groom a new FB who will take the club into the future? What the hell is your recruiting model, and how will it see you playing consistent finals football in years to come??

Compared to other clubs, you have recruited fairly poorly. You have picked up crappy players in some awesome drafts. You have recruited numerous patchwork players who will be long gone before you are a finals contender. Your youngsters honestly dont match up to a lot of other young squads. The only people who think they are any good are bummers fans.

In summary.. The only thing that changes next year is you get Lloyd back. The rest is speculation and hot air. Until someone can give me any good reason why all of the problems from this year will be fixed next year, i will be pencilling you in for a bottom 8 finish.

 

[Hawkk]

Didn't Sheedy and the media predict that Essendon were going to be the big improvers this season....look what good that did them

 

[topdon]

Didn't Sheedy and the media predict that Essendon were going to be the big improvers this season....look what good that did them

Injuries cripple you.

 

[D Mitchell]

Injuries cripple you.

They shouldn't to the extent that leads to a bottom 2 finish. There's more to Essendon's further descent in 2006 than injuries. For mine, the two more important reasons were the lack of development in the younger brigade and the poor form of the middle agers, Johnsons, Solomon, McPhee. Whether they can pick up this year or whether they are either past it or were over rated, time will tell. Among the younger brigade, Dyson and Monfries were OK but the rest were ordinary. Even Watson, about whom everyone raved, I thought was too slow to move the ball on. He lacked instinct in the games I watched. He had to think first and then give it off, missing better opportunities during that process. He may improve with experience.

 

[DaSawx]

Both Watson and Stanton's instincts and vision started off slowly, but both did improve int he second half of the season.

Team confiedence as a whole was down, if we can imrpove that, we'll start to see some imrpovement, then the youngsters can grow with confidence themselves. This is the most important aspect IMO.

 

[Smokin]

Uh, why's that? Because he quoted the age of your entire list?? Very insightful.

Essendons 'resurgance' is based on 20 million if's.

- If Lloyd returns from injury and has a significant impact
- If Hird can stay fit and on the field
- If JJ and MJ can find and maintain good form
- If McPhee can rediscover form
- If lovett and lovett murray can pull their bloody finger out
- If your young players can step up

These can all be bundled into one huge if.

If Essendon dont have another year like 2006

There are no real givens, other than the fact that Lloyd returns from injury. Nothing else is certain, and there is no reason to ASSUME that any of the above will come to fruition. It isnt magic. These things dont just happen. There was a reason for all of the above, and nobody wants to say how or why these issues will be remedied. THEY JUST WILL. It's a load of rubbish! Rubbish teams dont magically get better. They improve via changes in coaching, or hard work, or good recruitment.

Well duh, of course. Under your theory, you cant argue any team will change. All "If's"! Who says Essendon dont work hard? Who are you to say we need changes with Coaching? Can Leigh Matthews suddenly not coach? Same with sheedy? To be brutally honest, Id rather much be in our position Coach-wise than yours.

As it stands, not a whole lot changes at bummer land. Idiot recruiting will see them pick up ANOTHER patchwork player. Yes mal michael is a great FB, but WTF is the point? You have a great FB of similar age. Why pick up another player who will retire at the same time? Why not groom a new FB who will take the club into the future? What the hell is your recruiting model, and how will it see you playing consistent finals football in years to come??

Why? Pretty simple. We need somebody like that for many many reasons. The main couple apart from actually improving our side directly in the backline is perhaps saving the careers of make-shift or clearly not really defenders like Bradley, Lee and McPhee. These guys cant be thrown to the wolves like they have been, or could be in Lee's case. McPhee is not a big defender, yet has been forced to play too many similar roles which is effectively stalling if not ruining his career. Bradley copped it from all last season, but he is a kid being thrown into a key defenders role when he simply isnt ready physically or mentally. Lee is simply not read for league football at this stage. But in 2 years, Bradley and Lee will be totally different scenarios. Just like Dawson will perhaps be OK in a few seasons time. Regardless of what your coach reckons, there is no need to throw him to the wolves right now, but unfortunately you cant avoid it.

Secondly, MM will probably add a season or two to Fletchers career, and it's a pretty good investment for a PSD pick. Tell me who we would be better off with in this years PSD?

Compared to other clubs, you have recruited fairly poorly. You have picked up crappy players in some awesome drafts. You have recruited numerous patchwork players who will be long gone before you are a finals contender. Your youngsters honestly dont match up to a lot of other young squads. The only people who think they are any good are bummers fans.

That's your opinion. We did go through a stage where we had bad recruiting, but the past few seasons that has changed. Dont confuse our real recruiting with PSD top up players, which too many people seem to focus on.

Fact is, in the past few years we have brought in:

Laycock (finally doing his first full pre-season), Wilderlich, Watson, Bradley, Stanton, Nash, Dyson, Johns (finally doing his first pre season), Monfries, Lee, Slattery, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Ryder, Dempsey, Neagle, Dyson, plus arguably the best bunch from this seasons draft including Gumbleton, Jetta and Hislop. Just about all of them have senior experience. Im pretty happy with the youth at our club actually.

In summary.. The only thing that changes next year is you get Lloyd back. The rest is speculation and hot air. Until someone can give me any good reason why all of the problems from this year will be fixed next year, i will be pencilling you in for a bottom 8 finish.

Well, the only thing that changes next year is your ruckman is gone. Under your reasoning, good luck Hawthorn.

 

[ant555]

They shouldn't to the extent that leads to a bottom 2 finish. There's more to Essendon's further descent in 2006 than injuries. For mine, the two more important reasons were the lack of development in the younger brigade and the poor form of the middle agers, Johnsons, Solomon, McPhee. Whether they can pick up this year or whether they are either past it or were over rated, time will tell. Among the younger brigade, Dyson and Monfries were OK but the rest were ordinary. Even Watson, about whom everyone raved, I thought was too slow to move the ball on. He lacked instinct in the games I watched. He had to think first and then give it off, missing better opportunities during that process. He may improve with experience.

The problem Watson had wasnt lack of instinct. I would suggest you watch all of the games. At times his problem was he was thinking too much about it and not going with his natural game.

 

[ShanBoi]

Unlike Hawthorn, we haven't had 6 top 7 picks in the last 3 years.

1. If priority picks hadnt changed you would have had 3 top 7 picks in the last 2 years, and who knows where you will finish next season.

2. Lots of our first round picks came via trades. We got 2 first rounders for thompson and another 2 first rounders from hay.

3. We finished 15, 14, 11 over the last 3 years. The last 3 years you have finished 8, 13 and 15. So how does calling us 'super ********' reflect on you? Remember the biggest losing streak in sheedy's history??

As for wasting good draft picks over the years, looks at some of these gems selected in the top 25...Luke Brennan, Rick Ladson, Daniel Elstone, Nick Ries, Brett Johnson, Harry Miller.

lol fine name ********ty top 25 picks. I can too! Shane Harvey, Winderlich (big whoop), Kepler Bradely (what a steal at pick #6 pfft), Jay Nash (pick #28, the only reason you went to 25 was to include harry miller.. so fair game to include him), Patrick Ryder, Courtney Dempsey

Now name all of the young guns you have who will set the world on fire. You name young players but most are average at best. Monfries, Stanton and Watson are three who i would consider good players. Laycock has had a bad run with injuries but i do like his style, and the rest pffft. Lovett and lovett murray both put in stinkers this season.

Patchwork players??? Simon Cox, Spider Everitt, Danny Jacobs, Lance Piccone, Kinglsey Hunter, Brent Guerra, Trent Croad...i'm sure there are others.

Everitt was recruited at a time when we seriously thought we had a list worthy of finals. Danny jacobs is 26, was recruited as a 24 year old. Trent croad as a patchwork player? He is 25 now or something? Guerra is 23? How are these patchwork players? Im talking about camporeale, heffernan, mal michael. Old blokes you have recruited lately who will NOT be around when you are finals contenders.

Hawthorn's youngsters are good...but being lousy will give you access to some good kids won't it? Truth be told, Thorp, Baily, Renouf, Dowler etc are all going to take time. I'm sure you rate Ellis, Moss and Morton as guns, but probably haven't seen them play much, if at all. And I guess you think our kids Ryder, Dempsey, Gumby, Jetta, Hislop, Houli etc are all crap and have no future. But in the glorious colours of brown and yellow...they too would be future superstars.

As i said, you have had the same crappy 2 seasons in the bottom four as we did. And i dont rate thorp, ellis, muston as guns because i havent seen them play. I dont think ryder, dempsy are good because i have seen them and they have shown me nothing. I cant rate gumby and jetta and co because as above, i havent seen them.

And i dont rate dowler highly right now, or dawson, because i am a realist. I rate players who have actually shown something at senior level.

So please guys, explain how i have been owned or rolled or whatever you want to say??

 

[Longy413]

lovett murray both put in stinkers this season.

You know nothing, nothing at all, about football.

You've just proven it.

 

[D Mitchell]

The problem Watson had wasnt lack of instinct. I would suggest you watch all of the games. At times his problem was he was thinking too much about it and not going with his natural game.

I saw 4 - 5 on TV and a couple live. You'd watch him a lot more than I would and it' my view only but the need to think is what I mean by lack of instinct. A reasonable comparison is Cross, they play similar games, who gets the ball off quickly to what I imagine he perceives to be a good option.