Could Hawkins become one of the best rucks in the league?

patdman

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Thread starter #1
I think he has the opportunity, utilizing his great leap, size and strength, marking around the ground and ability to go forward to become an amazing weapon.

Right now he is very weak at the center bounces and serviceable around the ground (has done very well against some older full time ruckman around the ground) but along with his ruckwork the bug unit is pulling in 10+ marks and kicking 2+ goals since he started playing ruck.

If he could get his ruckwork to where he is breaking even in the center and using his strength and size to win out at ruck contests around the ground, his ability to cover ground and kick goals could see him become on of the most damaging big men in the game.

I understand that a lot of people want him to play CHF/FF but with Moons and Pods down there, Ottens so injury prone, for the next 2 years or so it might be best to develop him as a Ruckman who kicks goals and takes marks around the ground. Worst case he develops a big engine then moves back forward at 25-26 and uses that experience to his benefit. Best case he really dominates and becomes a goal kicking ruck.
 

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The Sim Dog

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#2
Yep if he keeps kicking 3/4 most games as well as taking big marks all over the ground and applying good pressure when the ball hits the turf. When Ottens comes back he has Blake's spot I'm afraid. Offers MILES more than Blakey.
 

D BRIDGE

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#3
Sure he has no clue about rucking in the middle but with Ottens out now is his time to learn and improve.
He will never be as good as Blake at center bounces but if he can just hold his own he just does many more things than Blake can ever hope to do.
He can get back and chip in, he can rotate as a forward and play the CHF hitup role, chase and create around the ground and my favorite thing he is doing is the way he is throwing himself at the ball and taking big grabs you think he isnt even in then kicking goals.

All things Blake simply cant do.
 

Turbocat

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#4
The Ruckman game is constantly changing. The one thing that is constantly growing is the demand to be flexible and highly skilled. The Ess setup looks good ATM. Ryder and Hille are different ruckmen but both can play in multiple positions on the field meaning the don't have to be bench hogs.Hawkins almost look a hybrid of the two give him enough time and he could be a top Ruckman but Id say in another two or so years he will be required forward to take over from CamM. In fact there are elements of Cam in Tom. Think how long it took Cam to make being a key forward his spot.

As far as Blake going out. Blake is a good , durable , tap ruckman , is coming along around the ground but will the guy never be a Cox, Hille , Sandilands etc. Hawkins is this multiple position player , so is Ottens. So one would think Blake out for Ottens. Perhaps but going forward Im not so sure.

Ottens is not a durable player . He is very much in the King mould that his good is capable of great but one really doesn't know how long it will be till his next injury layoff. Another point is cash. Ottens quite correctly would be a highly paid player at Geelong. The partnership has been good for club and player , he has been worth every cent no question but going forward hard choices will have to be made. To keep a player like Ablett , players like Ottens may just be squeezed out.

So If he decides to pull the pin due to injuries or $$$ we must have a setup that works. Say what you want Blake in the side works. Would it works with Hawkins and West, Hawkins and Simpson , Hawkins and Vardy ?

I'd love to have a Ryder at geelong or an Ottens 5 years younger but we have Blake. Take him out and we lose an important part of our setup.
 

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#5
As a ruckman he is pretty average.
But his value is that he can rotate to the forward line and his general play is very good. Once moons retires I think he will be our CHF, not our ruckman. But this year it might work with him and ottens in the ruck later on. I am sure Blake will get a rest at some stage and it will be tried out.

But in a big match (like finals) Toms weakness as a ruckman might actually work against us as winning the clearances is vital in modern football.

He is most definitely Moons successor at CHF
 

rocker_oz33

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#7
l remember reading something about moons saying that the year he spend in the ruck he became really fit and started enjoying his footy more.hawkins playing in the ruck can only be a good thing for him add another string to his bow he might not be the best ruckman but if he can become serviceable and can get a break-even that's all he needs to do.
 

Brasil2007

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#9
As a ruckman he is pretty average.
But his value is that he can rotate to the forward line and his general play is very good. Once moons retires I think he will be our CHF, not our ruckman. But this year it might work with him and ottens in the ruck later on. I am sure Blake will get a rest at some stage and it will be tried out.

But in a big match (like finals) Toms weakness as a ruckman might actually work against us as winning the clearances is vital in modern football.

He is most definitely Moons successor at CHF
I'd agree with this. He's been beaten pretty comprehensively by pure ruckmen a couple of times this season and that's put the midfield under more pressure. Plus it's a different game altogether when you are rucking 70 per cent of the game or more to just being able to pick up the slack. I've no doubt he could do the job given time but frankly I think there are bigger fish to fry.

Bomber has described Blake as "durable" and there's no doubt this is the case. Blake has played 78 games since 2007. Cox has played 65. Hille has played 53. Ottens has played 49. Brogan has played 67. Sandilands has played 66. Blake is probably not as good as any of these players in terms of all round performance, but he's been on the ground when we've needed him. And I think if you look purely at ruckwork he's probably been at least competitive against all of these ruckmen over the period too.
 

Pure_Ownage

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#10
He said this morning on game day that he loved playing in the ruck and getting involved that way.

It's a tough one...with him you do sacrifice some tapouts but you get much more in other areas, and Tom looks so much better there.

That said, in a few years, once he learns how to fully utilise that big frame he has, he will be a very good power forward.
 

winty

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I think the greatest advantage of Hawkins, and Ottens for that matter, are they were both key forwards before going into the ruck. Most ruckmen aren't natural defenders, so it would cause opposition coaches a lot of headaches seeing Tom and Brad running forward to create an option, as they have runs on the board as far as kicking goals is concerned. Mark Blake, the goal against Sydney aside, simply doesn't create the same sense of panic if he's loose in the forward line, as his kicking accuracy is still hit and miss.

Essendon are doing something similar with Hille and Ryder, and I can see Otto and Hawkins being as effective once Hawkins improves the hitout side of his game, which will come in time.
 

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Vdubs

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#12
Hawkins could be our version of Goodes. A large utility.

Blake will continue to develop into a classic ruckman.

Ottens will not last.

Simpson needs some work.

What an embarrassment of riches
 
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#13
But in a big match (like finals) Toms weakness as a ruckman might actually work against us as winning the clearances is vital in modern football.

He is most definitely Moons successor at CHF
Agree.

I've chucked the paper out but IIRC Tomahawk had 9 hit outs with 0% effective. You just can't get away with that against a team like the Saints where their ruckman will be feeding a Hayes or Goddard.
 
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#14
Blake is a good , durable , tap ruckman , is coming along around the ground but will the guy never be a Cox, Hille , Sandilands etc.
I know this is a Hawkins thread, and I'm lovin' what I'm seein' in him.

But to pick up on the above quote. I remember a few years ago when Sandilands was nothing more than a big lummox that was reasonable in the ruck and that's about all. Now he's probably AA ruckman, who can turn games on his own. Who's to say Blake isn't following the same trajectory? (as with his dad!)

I'm glad we have our ruck 'problems' and not Hawthorn's:rolleyes:
 
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#15
I wouldn't mind seeing him play on the wing when Ottens returns, or just start him on the half forward flank and say 'go wherever you want and demand that your opponents respect you'. That way the ruck isn't a weakness ever as Blake and Ottens will smash pretty much everyone, and Hawkins still has the freedom to play as he is now.
 

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#17
I know I have been consistently calling for Hawkins to go into the ruck - as a replacement for Blake or along side Blake when Ottens is out injured.

However this does not mean I think Hawkins will be a good ruckman or this is his best position or the best position for the club. He just provides the mobility around the ground as a big man who can mark and tackle. That is something Geelong misses when Ottens is not up and about.

I think he is better value at present as a ruckman than as a FF with Pods in the team and Ottens out.

I suspect that he would make a really good CHB - that he could become another Egan for us down back.

Then Harry can play on the third tall - and how good would that be ? He could use his beautiful hands and kicking to more effect - being more attacking in his play than at present. He could also be used as a switch player on occasion at CHF when things just need a change up in a particular game.

This allows Blake and Ottens to ruck. I have been far more impressed this year with Blake's efforts and results. He will always be Geelong's second ruckman - but he is improving.

Take Mackie out of the backline and put him on the HFF (to make space for Hawkins down back) - where I think his height, marking ability and long kicking maybe of better use to Geelong.

I just think the side looks better balanced and more flexible and uses the exiting players we have to best affect.

This option allows Hawkins to use his natural athleticism and takes away the pressure of taking a big grab and kicking a goal. He can now spoil first or take decide to take a grab - a very different mental outlook for a FF player.

It keeps Pods at FF most of the time, it keeps Moons at CHF and Blake in the ruck - and it finds a better position for Mackie (who then can become a switch player down back on occasions to do a specific job when the first option has failed).

We just look look more flexible. Harry can still go to CHB when required and Hawkins CHF or FF when required. And it certainly still uses Blake - who I think may yet be a good enough to earn his keep in the only one position he can play - second ruckman. Still an important position.

And how long can Ottens go on for ? I hope the big injury breaks and with the body largely rested means he can go for another 2 seasons after this one - but maybe not - and Blake then might be a more important and integral player over the next few seasons than we would like.
 

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#18
Let's say Hawkins hits a hot streak of form (which he may already have started) and kicks 50 goals and averages say 18 touches and 10 marks a game. Still unlikely, but not impossible. Given that he will have been playing as a ruckman for the season, would he be eligible for AA? Sandilands amasses, er, masses of hitouts and gets a bit of the ball, but doesn't kick many goals or take many marks (though he's doing a bit more of that now). Would a big goal, mark and possession tally supercede a more traditonal output?

Probably not at this point, but the ruck-forward has gone out fashion a little recently - Hawkins might revive it somewhat if he improves his centre square work.

Bear in mind I'm not suggesting Hawkins is AA material just yet, just that the evolution of this role he finds himself in might give pause to those that pick the team.
 
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